Uppps … gents, please don’t get me wrong, but I think I need to explain my conclusion a bit more in detail:
I don't think so, bro.
If im right, this photo scaned from a 2015 Chinese military magazine ... and below Chinese traslation is " new batch of WZ-10 armed helicopters test qualified & ready for PLA Army"
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This photo took in 2014, and two batch of WZ-10 helos at the same place --- Jing De Zhen helicopter manufacturing company but in different time.
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My idea is since 2015 China WZ-10 armed helicopters updated ... future we need more new PLA photos to prove the WZ-10A or WZ-10H.
Yes, but even if published only recently it does not state, that the image itself is a recent one or even more likely IMO it is indeed a recent image, since these pre-serials are only delivered recently to the PLA after being modified to be used operationally.
You are absolutely wrong. How do you know it does not have the new engine? You mean the wz16 turboshaft has a bigger dimension than WZ9 that cannot fit into older airframe? I don't think Chinese engineer are that dumb.
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I don’t think that the WZ-16 would require a new airframe since IMO it is built from the beginning to fit that type … as such to assume a new engine is off even more I don’t think Chinese engineers are dumb, but the WZ-16 aka Adiden 3C is at least from all information I have is simply still not ready. This latest member of the Ardiden-family is not even listed on the Turbomeca-HP, a first ground run – NOTE: not a test on an actual helicopter – was only done in November 2013 and You really believe reports that serial production started then already in China in 2014 ??? Simply NEVER.
http://www.turbomeca.com/english/our-products/helicopter-engines/ardiden-47/
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/turbomeca-completes-first-ground-run-of-ardiden-3c-393619/
And clneio explain it very well that the magazine say new batch of WZ-10 join the fleet. Precisely the purpose of the PLA sponsor magazine which act as mouth piece of PLA is to brag about the new helo. Now you say it is actually a previous old dated configuration and even worst performance? It is just saying the PLA purposely humiliate itself? It is not logic.
The airframe is new and we do know WZ16 is ready by 2013 and production started 2014. 2015 is a good year for the new engine to be installed on WZ-10 gunship
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Yes, this could simply be since they only entered service now after being modified but they were built actually long before. As such I’m sure the current Z-10 – and please do not use this wrong WZ-designation, it’s plain wrong !! – uses an uprated version of the WZ-9, what type, version or modification I don’t know since I know, the Chinese are not stupid and from all films we know the Z-10 does not look that underpowered as some want to make it.
My point is that it is simply not logical to develop an airframe, identify certain issues, initiate a weight reduction program, build an improved serial version in high numbers and then completely reverse everything … and even more it is even less logical to deduct that a new engine must be installed only due to the old configuration. Wouldn’t it be much wiser to retain the already improven airframe and simply add the new engine ?? The old heavy tail-gear and windows are truly not related to an engine change. So why again the old configuration if these birds are not simply old ones ?
IMO it is the simplest explanation that these birds were modified for operational use, maybe only for training purpose, to let the pilots fly without a heavy load, maybe only as instruction trainers for ground crews … I don’t know, but simply to assume a new engine due to a step-back to the old fuselage/airframe is IMO a bit far-fetched. Therefore it is not a humiliation for the PLA, it is an economical decision to use them for a certain role … what role however is not stated and I don’t know.
Deino, as a moderator of Chinese military forum. You are too skeptical and see too little of China military advancement. If PLA is not confident of their WZ-10. I don't think they bother to gift 3 of them to PA to humiliate themselves with such underpowered and non sophisticated gunship.
Yes and NO ! First, a moderator does not has to be more or less confident, more or less skeptical than other’s … he has to be honest, fair and rational.
And regarding this issue, I did a lot of research on that type – by the way the AFM-report posted above is plain stupid since it contains too many errors ! – I think we should not see it black and white only.
IMO the Z-10 is a perfectly capable combat helicopter to be proud of, it is not underpowered per se or a humiliation for the Pakistani friends, but it seems as if it still lacks certain power to exploit its full potential. For example we have never seen 16 KD-10 ATGM on it but always only 8, that could be a possibility due to lacking images with 16, a certain PLA-doctrine, that only employs 8 but also a hint for a lack in engine-power, I don’t know – however it seems indeed as if the PLA is quite lucky with that type
Therefore I’m truly sure that all so far delivered Z-10s use an improved WZ-9, they are perfectly capable to do their job but an uprated version is projected (maybe for the Marines) that will use the WZ-16. However there are IMO too many arguments that simply exclude the WZ-16 right now and even more that these few birds are already this version. Even more since Huitong confirmed and agreed to my arguments.
To be sure however we have to see what the next unit’s birds will look like …
All the best,
Deino
