Yousuf Al Kardawi's Speech to Bangladesh

[Hammer-fist]

Why is it imperative that we as Bangladeshis should go to such length in order to please some unruly morons, who treat people of other 3rd world countries like dirt? Saudi Arabia has no monopoly over Islam nor does Jamaat.

Good comment.

Let us deal with realpolitik

1. The Bangladeshi economy is not a developed one but is on a trajectory to emulating South Korea and other east Asian states (not so unrealistic given that Bangladesh/East Pakistan was ahead of South Korea a few decades back, and Bengal itself was ahead of England quite a few centuries back). However at the moment the economy is overly dependent on export of cheap garments and remittance from expatriates including the GCC.

2. If Saudi Arabia and other GCC states sent the 4 million or so Bangladeshis living there they can cripple the Bangladeshi economy. I do not think they would ever do such a thing and generally they are pro-Bangladesh but it shows you the power they have. In the first gulf war (1991) the Saudis expelled 0.8 million of their fellow Arab Muslim "brothers", the Yemenis from Saudi.

Why?

Because Yemen called for a reconciliatory approach between Saddam and occupied Kuwait rather than an outright condemnation of Iraq. Also Saudi could do so because Yemen was weak. If you are weak you can be bullied, if you are strong you can't. Simple.

No Muslim country dares criticize controversial Saudi construction projects in the holy cities except Turkey and Iran. Turkey can get away with criticizing Saudi because it is percieved as too strong and important.

Thus the GCC has huge importance for us and I believe we should ask for observer status in GCC meetings (e.g. Russia and Thailand have observer status in the OIC).

3. Jamat have been promoting anti-Bangladeshi propaganda in the GCC from the creation of Bangladesh onwards.

- They lobbied gulf Arab governments not to recognize Bangladesh.

- It is alleged they claimed that after 1971 Bangladesh had been overrun by Hindus, mosques were being burnt etc. In other words they engaged in false propaganda and lies. They used this claim also to gain money from the gulf Arabs.

- Jamatis still lobby the Saudis and other GCC states to exert soft pressure on Bangladesh e.g. harassment of workers (I was in Hajj this Oct/Nov and my cousin reported of police harassment of Bangladeshis in Medina...long issue). Even on this forum two Jamatis, Al-Zakir and Luffy50 have put on smileys when they commented about Saudi possibly expelling Bangladeshi workers.

These are ordinary Bangladeshis struggling to survive and feed their families, and Jamatis do not care about our people or our country but their own agenda and ultimately their loyalty is to Pakistan, not that most Pakistanis would like them and probably see them as weirdo wannabe-Pakistanis with identity issues.

4. Jamatis failed to keep up their anti-Bangladeshi success when Zia and Ershad came to power. Zia fought for Bangladesh in the war of liberation but was a proud Muslim and worked for Muslim unity. Ershad was also pro-Muslim and both leaders communicated with the Saudis and so Jamatis could not convincingly lie to them.

5. The Awami League, definitely do have an anti-Islamic faction amongst them especially some of their "Higher-level intellectuals", but can never realize their anti-Islamic secularism (as opposed to the moderate secularism of the BNP) in Muslim Bangladesh. However if they stop doing stupid things like removing Bismillah from our constitution, not respecting our Muslim identity they can go to the Saudis and the GCC and expose the true nature of Jamat.

They should also provide evidence of how Jamati leaders allegedly stole money earmarked for Rohingya Muslims and used it for personal benefit. All parties are corrupt in Bangladesh but Jamat are different as they use the name of Islam.

a: The government or civil society organizations should contact Arab public relations companies and present accurate information on Bangladesh and 71.

b: This should include books, leaflets, DVDs, youtube videos in high quality Arabic.

c: Should talk about the pre-71 exploitation and abuse of East Pakistan, Yahya Khan's subversion of democracy and the genocide.

d: The Muslim nature of Muktis who prayed, did salah and other things. Some former Muktis have beards and topis (hats) now.

e: The role of Jamat. The nature of Maudoodi who opposed Pakistan, who is condemned by Saudi ulama and Salafis and Ahlul Hadith as a deviant who overpoliticizes Islam.

The similarities between Jamat and Syed-Qutb inspired Jihadis etc.

f: This informational material should be free of i:partisanship ii: excessive anti-Pakistanism iii:Mujib-worship etc.

Thus it might be better for civil society organizations to do it. We could even co-operate with civil society organizations in Pakistan to realize these projects as liberal Pakistanis are no friends of fundamentalists like Jamat or the Taliban.

If the Awami League were not as stupid as they are (and they are very stupid and violent) they could do this quite easily and destroy half a century of anti-Bangladeshi Jamati propaganda.

They could even approach princess Rania of Sarvath (ethnically Bengali) whose sister was a senior Awami League leader to help them out.

Princess Sarvath of Jordan, from Calcutta, West Bengal whose sister was an Awami League leader.

Salma Sobhan, sister of princess Sarvath, a Bangladeshi professor and senior Awami League leader.

Salma Sobhan, later in life.

Her brother-in-law was originally the one who would have become the King of Jordan, though he did go to her funeral.

The problem however is the Awami League are too stupid, and unfortunately yes they are too secular to do anything like this. I even heard recently that the Saudis refused to give a visa to that clown Dipu Moni.

However aside from the Awami League (who are secular thugs) we normal Bangladeshis need to do this to counter Jamati propaganda against Bangladesh. Remember even on this forum Jamatis were gloating over the prospect of Bangladeshi workers being kicked out of the gulf, there are 4 million Bangladeshis in the gulf (correct figure?) so we need to protect them.

 

[Hammer-fist]

I wasn't talking about the scholar(i was talking to a member) but from what he said, i already know that he spoke of a matter where he has very little knowledge about which is prohibited in Islam.

Quoting riasat khan "2009: Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the Jews people who would punish them for their corruption...The last punishment was carried out by [Adolf] Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them – even though they exaggerated this issue – he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them...Allah Willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers."

Look what he said--^ seems morally acceptable to you?



1. why do you want to be brother of a country where secularism prevails by showing them that there is a road in the name of their secularist fighter?

2. I was pointing out @Al-zakir @T-Rex @M_Saint who don't even have the decency of discussing a matter without going personal, good thing two of those extremist are in USA, please don't come here.

1. The aforementioned Jamatis are basically embarassing themselves (they are too stupid to realize it) as uneducated, violent and thuggish.

Most non-Bangladesh/Indian/Pakistanis who read this thread are neutrals but they will see the calm behaviour of yourself and others, and then compare it to the swearing and abuse of the three Jamatis mentioned above. They may not even take sides (nor should they) but they will definitely not have a positive opinion of these three Jamatis or their party.

2. Jamatis can swear all they like on this forum. In the real they are nothing.

They are weak and cannot stop their top leaders from enjoying the culinary delight and gastronomic wonder known as "Bangladeshi prison food".

If you notice the non-Jamatis (apart from me) are too sensible to get emotional, write long posts, swear etc because they are mature people, with real lives, careers, families to waste time in petty online forum fights.

It is these such people who have influence in the real world, not keyboard warriors.

P.S. If I or other non-Jamatis reacted with swearing and insults then Bangladeshis as a nation would look bad and people would think there is a problem with us. However now it just looks like one political organization and its members have a problem. So let's avoid all swearing and insults.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Well articulated Hammer, I agree it's not the brotherhood or love for Muslims all over the world, but hatred towards Indians in general and Hindus in particular, which binds the Jamatis together. I don't ask you to be secular or liberal but only ask you to be pragmatic. Pragmatism seems to be an alien idea to PDF-BDS.

1. Jamatis get very little votes in Bangladesh and have never been the ruling party.

2. They are weak and cannot stop their leaders from having to survive on a diet of Bangladeshi prison food (I wonder if they eat hilcha mach).

3. Even on PDF I don't think they are a majority but silence others using bully tactics of swearing (Al-Zakir, M_Saint, T-Rex) and labelling you as Awami (Idune, Earl) however the more sane Bangladeshi members here realize this is just an online forum to have a bit of fun and post less (being busier with the real world) e.g. Iajdani, Eastwatch, Asad, UKBengali, Mb444, Azidane, Saleen, Animalive, Boltu and the rest of the silent majority.

4. Don't worry we Bangladeshis know how to take care of extremists and Jamatis. Muslim governments through out the world are facing the problem of extremists and terrorists.

- Indonesia has clamped down.

- Algeria has clamped down on militants who were on the verge of even winning elections in the 90s.

- Egypt has clamped down on terrorists who in the 90s targeted western tourists.

- Jordan has clamped down on Al-Qaeda since they bombed a wedding or so around 7 years ago.

- Saudi has clamped down on anti-Saudi Al-Qaeda militants, ask @The Legend @Mosomania @JUBA etc

I could go on. Pakistanis however have not yet been able to full deal with militant thugs and terrorists.

Militants have never been a major problem in Bangladesh and Jamat is basically being slapped around left, right and centre.

Their leaders are in jail, eating prison food and funniest of all Jamat officially has to call itself "Bangladesh Jamat e Islami". This is pure and utter humiliation and OWNAGE of Jamat as Bangladesh is the country they worked to prevent from being born and then worked to destroy, for a Jamati leader, "Bangladesh" shouldn't even exist and it should be "Pakistan Mashriqi" (East Pakistan)...lolz

So don't worry about these guys who go with begging bowls to foreign countries to get their leaders out of jail and to get Bangladeshi workers harassed in the middle east or even expelled.

They are nothing.

lol.

 

[saleen_s7]

Good comment.

Let us deal with realpolitik

1. The Bangladeshi economy is not a developed one but is on a trajectory to emulating South Korea and other east Asian states (not so unrealistic given that Bangladesh/East Pakistan was ahead of South Korea a few decades back, and Bengal itself was ahead of England quite a few centuries back). However at the moment the economy is overly dependent on export of cheap garments and remittance from expatriates including the GCC.

2. If Saudi Arabia and other GCC states sent the 4 million or so Bangladeshis living there they can cripple the Bangladeshi economy. I do not think they would ever do such a thing and generally they are pro-Bangladesh but it shows you the power they have. In the first gulf war (1991) the Saudis expelled 0.8 million of their fellow Arab Muslim "brothers", the Yemenis from Saudi.

Why?

Because Yemen called for a reconciliatory approach between Saddam and occupied Kuwait rather than an outright condemnation of Iraq. Also Saudi could do so because Yemen was weak. If you are weak you can be bullied, if you are strong you can't. Simple.

No Muslim country dares criticize controversial Saudi construction projects in the holy cities except Turkey and Iran. Turkey can get away with criticizing Saudi because it is percieved as too strong and important.

Thus the GCC has huge importance for us and I believe we should ask for observer status in GCC meetings (e.g. Russia and Thailand have observer status in the OIC).

3. Jamat have been promoting anti-Bangladeshi propaganda in the GCC from the creation of Bangladesh onwards.

- They lobbied gulf Arab governments not to recognize Bangladesh.

- It is alleged they claimed that after 1971 Bangladesh had been overrun by Hindus, mosques were being burnt etc. In other words they engaged in false propaganda and lies. They used this claim also to gain money from the gulf Arabs.

- Jamatis still lobby the Saudis and other GCC states to exert soft pressure on Bangladesh e.g. harassment of workers (I was in Hajj this Oct/Nov and my cousin reported of police harassment of Bangladeshis in Medina...long issue). Even on this forum two Jamatis, Al-Zakir and Luffy50 have put on smileys when they commented about Saudi possibly expelling Bangladeshi workers.

These are ordinary Bangladeshis struggling to survive and feed their families, and Jamatis do not care about our people or our country but their own agenda and ultimately their loyalty is to Pakistan, not that most Pakistanis would like them and probably see them as weirdo wannabe-Pakistanis with identity issues.

4. Jamatis failed to keep up their anti-Bangladeshi success when Zia and Ershad came to power. Zia fought for Bangladesh in the war of liberation but was a proud Muslim and worked for Muslim unity. Ershad was also pro-Muslim and both leaders communicated with the Saudis and so Jamatis could not convincingly lie to them.

5. The Awami League, definitely do have an anti-Islamic faction amongst them especially some of their "Higher-level intellectuals", but can never realize their anti-Islamic secularism (as opposed to the moderate secularism of the BNP) in Muslim Bangladesh. However if they stop doing stupid things like removing Bismillah from our constitution, not respecting our Muslim identity they can go to the Saudis and the GCC and expose the true nature of Jamat.

They should also provide evidence of how Jamati leaders allegedly stole money earmarked for Rohingya Muslims and used it for personal benefit. All parties are corrupt in Bangladesh but Jamat are different as they use the name of Islam.

a: The government or civil society organizations should contact Arab public relations companies and present accurate information on Bangladesh and 71.

b: This should include books, leaflets, DVDs, youtube videos in high quality Arabic.

c: Should talk about the pre-71 exploitation and abuse of East Pakistan, Yahya Khan's subversion of democracy and the genocide.

d: The Muslim nature of Muktis who prayed, did salah and other things. Some former Muktis have beards and topis (hats) now.

e: The role of Jamat. The nature of Maudoodi who opposed Pakistan, who is condemned by Saudi ulama and Salafis and Ahlul Hadith as a deviant who overpoliticizes Islam.

The similarities between Jamat and Syed-Qutb inspired Jihadis etc.

f: This informational material should be free of i:partisanship ii: excessive anti-Pakistanism iii:Mujib-worship etc.

Thus it might be better for civil society organizations to do it. We could even co-operate with civil society organizations in Pakistan to realize these projects as liberal Pakistanis are no friends of fundamentalists like Jamat or the Taliban.

If the Awami League were not as stupid as they are (and they are very stupid and violent) they could do this quite easily and destroy half a century of anti-Bangladeshi Jamati propaganda.

They could even approach princess Rania of Sarvath (ethnically Bengali) whose sister was a senior Awami League leader to help them out.

Princess Sarvath of Jordan, from Calcutta, West Bengal whose sister was an Awami League leader.

Salma Sobhan, sister of princess Sarvath, a Bangladeshi professor and senior Awami League leader.

Salma Sobhan, later in life.

Her brother-in-law was originally the one who would have become the King of Jordan, though he did go to her funeral.

The problem however is the Awami League are too stupid, and unfortunately yes they are too secular to do anything like this. I even heard recently that the Saudis refused to give a visa to that clown Dipu Moni.

However aside from the Awami League (who are secular thugs) we normal Bangladeshis need to do this to counter Jamati propaganda against Bangladesh. Remember even on this forum Jamatis were gloating over the prospect of Bangladeshi workers being kicked out of the gulf, there are 4 million Bangladeshis in the gulf (correct figure?) so we need to protect them.

Okay, long interesting reply. I am not sure if I can reply as thoroughly as you, but I do beg to differ in some areas. First of all, after 1971 war, Bangladesh was actually worse place economically than Pakistan was, by your logic the creation of Bangladesh was a bad idea as it was a suicide economically. Similarly, eventhough the money which is coming from Saudi is important to our economy, we should try to minimize the degradation of our own people. Do you remember Dipu Moni's reaction when 5 bangladeshis were sentenced to death in Saudi? I am not asking to severe ties, but a good leader will solve it through diplomacy and at the same time protect our citizens. It is very much possible with the right attitude, i believe.
The case against Jamaat is more political rather than anything else. If awami league was serious about a hanging few leaders, believe me, they could do it anytime of any day. But for whatever reason, it is a political ploy and they are making themselves like a total joke on the process(skype scandal) and at the same time giving Jamaat more chances to organize and strategize.
Same with secularism in the constitution. It is to secure the minority votes and please big daddy neighbor. BNP would do the exact opposite but for a similar purpose. I personally don't think secularism or putting islam in the constitution can have much difference on the day to day basis of normal citizens, therefore I don't really have any strong preference of one or the other, although some rational arguments could change my mind.
Lastly, IF Awami League intends to disintegrate Jamaat, the best option is leave it alone and they will dissolve over time and like you have said, other Islamist parties would form and takeover, or their young member can take over who won't be tainted like their leaders.

 

[Hammer-fist]

1. Hasina and co are a bunch of corrupt thugs and she doesn't care about war crimes.

Ghulam Azam was her former coalition partner.

So Ghulam Azam does not care as much about Islam as his followers think he does, and nor does Hasina care about war crimes as much as her followers think she does.

Anyone who has blind faith in any political party in Bangladesh is a fool as they are all corrupt (I say BAL, BNP, Jamat are corrupt....Jamatis here say only BAL is corrupt).

2. No need for long replies, that's fine.

3. We shouldn't go overboard with trying to please the gulf Arabs but at least counter Jamat e Islami (or Bangladesh Jamat e Islami as per their new official name...lol) propaganda.

In the long run we need to decrease any economic dependency we have on them. That is already happening.

In 10-20 years time with our economic growth we will be like Indonesia or even Turkey whose anger at Saudi treatment of workers would really scare them.

 

[T-Rex]

1. Jamatis get very little votes in Bangladesh and have never been the ruling party.

2. They are weak and cannot stop their leaders from having to survive on a diet of Bangladeshi prison food (I wonder if they eat hilcha mach).

We shall see just how strong bharati rajakars like you are.

Even on PDF I don't think they are a majority but silence others using bully tactics of swearing (Al-Zakir, M_Saint, T-Rex) and labelling you as Awami (Idune, Earl) however the more sane Bangladeshi members here realize this is just an online forum to have a bit of fun and post less (being busier with the real world) e.g. Iajdani, Eastwatch, Asad, UKBengali, Mb444, Azidane, Saleen, Animalive, Boltu and the rest of the silent majority.

When an indian rajakar like you are the chief of the election commission on this forum the result is quite predictable!

Don't worry we Bangladeshis know how to take care of extremists and Jamatis. Muslim governments through out the world are facing the problem of extremists and terrorists.

Don't say 'we Bangladeshis', say 'we the fascists of Bangladesh' because your methods tell that you are fascists through and through.

Algeria has clamped down on militants who were on the verge of even winning elections in the 90s.

- Egypt has clamped down on terrorists who in the 90s targeted western tourists.

- Jordan has clamped down on Al-Qaeda since they bombed a wedding or so around 7 years ago.

- Saudi has clamped down on anti-Saudi Al-Qaeda militants, ask @The Legend @Mosomania @JUBA etc

I could go on. Pakistanis however have not yet been able to full deal with militant thugs and terrorists.

You forgot to mention how successfully your buddy ben ali and mubarak dealt with the Islamists in Tunisia and Egypt. Besides, once more your godfathers are in friendly terms with the Al Qaeda in Syria, so stop portraying the CIA trained terrorists as Islamists.

They are nothing.

lol.

Yet you cannot stop your knees from shaking when you even think about giving them their basic human rights. Now, you're very brave with your Nazi techniques, we must admit that!

 

[animelive]

We shall see just how strong bharati rajakars like you are.




When an indian rajakar like you are the chief of the election commission on this forum the result is quite predictable!



Don't say 'we Bangladeshis', say 'we the fascists of Bangladesh' because your methods tell that you are fascists through and through.




You forgot to mention how successfully your buddy ben ali and mubarak dealt with the Islamists in Tunisia and Egypt. Besides, once more your godfathers are in friendly terms with the Al Qaeda in Syria, so stop portraying the CIA trained terrorists as Islamists.




Yet you cannot stop your knees from shaking when you even think about giving them their basic human rights. Now, you're very brave with your Nazi techniques, we must admit that!

He speaks sincerely, maybe not all of his facts are correct but you are just ranting.

 

[Hammer-fist]

He speaks sincerely, maybe not all of his facts are correct but you are just ranting.

Please just ignore him.

I don't even read his posts. I have put him and other trolls on ignore and if I see his post quoted I scroll over it.

Responding to him will only encourage him to troll further. Let this thread die its natural death.

 

[bd_4_ever]

Pretty interesting how the thread has turned into a name-calling fiesta. Though my interest to post on PDF declined long back due to this very reason, i still visit regularly to see what is going on. And sadly, things have not changed a bit.

Every single person is entitled to his/her opinions. Being an old member in BD section, i have seen the trend to have been labeling terms to anyone who does not seem to agree with other. Its also equally funny to see how few members make up 'teams' of who belongs where..and leaves me wondering where they have taken the country's image, regardless of being in an open internet forum where lot of people read these. There are reasons we BDeshis never had a good image abroad.

Being an internet warrior helps and it also, surprisingly, portrays you as a good Muslim due to throwing of all the flashy, Islamic terms which others might not know. Also calling one as 'kafir'/'munafiq'/'malaun'/'jammati' has worsen compared to before. I wonder how they have attained the knowledge or even the right to call others as such? Ever saw any Indian and Pakistani do that? Sorry to say, we have flushed our manners down the toilet.


Cheers!!!

 

[scholseys]

You can't simply hate all bangladeshi parties, you need alliance with at least one. Idealism doesn't work in Bangladeshl you will simply piss off the right and the left.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Pretty interesting how the thread has turned into a name-calling fiesta. Though my interest to post on PDF declined long back due to this very reason, i still visit regularly to see what is going on. And sadly, things have not changed a bit.

Every single person is entitled to his/her opinions. Being an old member in BD section, i have seen the trend to have been labeling terms to anyone who does not seem to agree with other. Its also equally funny to see how few members make up 'teams' of who belongs where..and leaves me wondering where they have taken the country's image, regardless of being in an open internet forum where lot of people read these. There are reasons we BDeshis never had a good image abroad.

Being an internet warrior helps and it also, surprisingly, portrays you as a good Muslim due to throwing of all the flashy, Islamic terms which others might not know. Also calling one as 'kafir'/'munafiq'/'malaun'/'jammati' has worsen compared to before. I wonder how they have attained the knowledge or even the right to call others as such? Ever saw any Indian and Pakistani do that? Sorry to say, we have flushed our manners down the toilet.


Cheers!!!

Well said and people should not be insulted or sworn at merely for expressing their opinion.

Anyway nevertheless it would have been interesting for you to give an on-topic post regarding Qardawi's speech as that is what this thread is about.

 

[clmeta]

Are you a lawyer?

Post reported.


"Attempt to intimidate a poster and silence alternative views by threatening to report him.

No offence was commited. No poster was insulted and no rules were violated.

This is a clear example of intimidation and bullying."

 

[Hammer-fist]

Are you a lawyer?

LOLZZZZ

Best post of the thread.

Nope...though they can make a whole heck of money!

 

[bd_4_ever]

Well said and people should not be insulted or sworn at merely for expressing their opinion.

Anyway nevertheless it would have been interesting for you to give an on-topic post regarding Qardawi's speech as that is what this thread is about.

Well, Qardawi is well-respected in the Middle East and even in the wider Eastern and western part of the world. In my 11 years of being here, i have seen him to be quite popular among Arabs. However, regarding his speech..i understand his plight for Ghulam Azam and that he has been imprisoned at this age etc etc. The point to make it is that if he has to be tried, the BD govt. needs to be doing it in a fair manner to give the old man an impartial chance. And i agree on that with him. Also, i agree that the stinky judiciary system we have in BD would not help in doing so. Its all about power and connection our country.

He is wrong about us being a Islamic country. Yes, most of our people live and love Islam but we are governed by secular constitutions. It has made halaal what Allah made haraam and that is Shirk. I would also confess that UAE, even though it is a heavily-Islamic country with Shari'ah law, has lot of its policies which are secular. So there are lot of issues people are unaware of and just rant based on their ideologies.

I dont support nationalism either as it is haraam. When people ask me about my country - i say i love my people and land as they bred and fed me, but hate its rulers and their constitutions. Funny how millions of Taka are spent behind changing the name of an airport, while millions lie in streets without cloths in winter!


Cheers!!!

 

[Zabaniyah]

Funny how millions of Taka are spent behind changing the name of an airport, while millions lie in streets without cloths in winter!


Cheers!!!

I agree about the airport part

Although as far as warm clothes for the poor are concerned, they can afford it. Now, we can see rickshawalas and even beggars buying warm clothes.

Don't underestimate beggars, they can give you change for Tk. 500 if you ask them and they can be truly master strategists

Bottom line: Warm clothes are now cheap, and hence affordable by all social classes. Thanks to our RMG industry.

Some things have changed for the better

Cheers mate.