Your opinion on Pakistani expatriates? Is it really worth living abroad or outside of Pakistan?

[TheSolution]

I am very curious how they became what they are now. Do all Brummie Pakistanis sound like Guz Khan?View attachment 819340

That doesn't sound like the typical Brum accent to me, they sound a little different...

 

[HAIDER]

Most people here are third generation - I am second. I think it's untrue. We have lost all the laziness and fazool dramabaazi. We don't sit around reading Urdu poetry. Our Islamic awareness and identity is stronger than ever.

In UK can't say anything, but US it is difficult.

 

[blain2]

You are again using English as a benchmark for education. If Pakistanis don't speak good English then its a good thing. Learning English does not show quality education. English should be banned in early education and should be optional in higher education.

This mindset of yours is a result of slave mentality that is deeply ingrained into your mind. This causes the intellectually crippled state of mind which has led to this education system that we cannot figure out how to make it work for us.

When you say Indians are fluent in English, what it is good for?

I don't care much for who is fluent or not. However, this statement "English should be banned in early education and should be optional in higher education." is a non-starter.

You cannot be competitive and are taking a massive back-seat if you are not teaching your children a language which is the primary base in which all scientific, literary and technical content is produced. It was a massive mistake by Zia-ul-Haq to switch to Urdu medium. It destroyed Pakistani competitiveness at a global level and we are paying for it till now.

Imran Khan is doing the exact same thing and this is the one thing that I absolutely and vehemently disagree with him. I think he is very much a hypocrite in this regard having been educated in the west himself and doing the same with his kids yet waxing eloquence about why Pakistanis need to shun angraizi.

I absolutely love the Urdu language and have no complexes about those that speak this language only. However, there is one problem that needs to be addressed and then I am ALL for complete switch to Urdu medium. This one issue is, you either implement the Turkish/Japanese model or keep on teaching our kids English. The Turkish and Japanese models incorporate painstaking efforts to translate most scientific, literary and technical content in the native language in a sustained manner. This allows their native speakers to stay abreast of the rest of world and allows literacy for the broader population in light of the latest developments etc.

Pakistan has not done this and we are paying the price even now. Instead of addressing this weakness, the easier route is being taken to remove English from the primary curriculum.

 

[MultaniGuy]

I don't care much for who is fluent or not. However, this statement "English should be banned in early education and should be optional in higher education." is a non-starter.

You cannot be competitive and are taking a massive back-seat if you are not teaching your children a language which is the primary base in which all scientific, literary and technical content is produced. It was a massive mistake by Zia-ul-Haq to switch to Urdu medium. It destroyed Pakistani competitiveness at a global level and we are paying for it till now.

Imran Khan is doing the exact same thing and this is the one thing that I absolutely and vehemently disagree with him because I think he is very much a hypocrite in this regard having been educated in the west himself and doing the same with his kids yet waxing eloquence about why Pakistanis need to shun angraizi.

I absolutely love the Urdu language and have no complexes about those that speak this language only yet there is one problem that needs to be addressed and then I am ALL for complete switch to Urdu medium. This one issue is, you either implement the Turkish/Japanese model or keep on teaching our kids English. The Turkish and Japanese models incorporate painstaking efforts to translate most scientific, literary and technical content in the native language in a sustained manner. This allows their native speakers to stay abreast with the rest of world and allows literacy for the broader population in light of the latest developments etc. Pakistan has not done this and we are paying the price even now.

That was not Zia ul Haq.

That was Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto with his nationalization program.

 

[313ghazi]

I don't care much for who is fluent or not. However, this statement "English should be banned in early education and should be optional in higher education." is a non-starter.

You cannot be competitive and are taking a massive back-seat if you are not teaching your children a language which is the primary base in which all scientific, literary and technical content is produced. It was a massive mistake by Zia-ul-Haq to switch to Urdu medium. It destroyed Pakistani competitiveness at a global level and we are paying for it till now.

Imran Khan is doing the exact same thing and this is the one thing that I absolutely and vehemently disagree with him. I think he is very much a hypocrite in this regard having been educated in the west himself and doing the same with his kids yet waxing eloquence about why Pakistanis need to shun angraizi.

I absolutely love the Urdu language and have no complexes about those that speak this language only yet there is one problem that needs to be addressed and then I am ALL for complete switch to Urdu medium. This one issue is, you either implement the Turkish/Japanese model or keep on teaching our kids English. The Turkish and Japanese models incorporate painstaking efforts to translate most scientific, literary and technical content in the native language in a sustained manner. This allows their native speakers to stay abreast with the rest of world and allows literacy for the broader population in light of the latest developments etc. Pakistan has not done this and we are paying the price even now.

Actually in the new curriculum English is taught as a subject from grade 1.

Science too. I think teaching subjects in the mother tongue at an early age will help generate a deeper understanding. Now what we need is quality textbooks.

Ministry of Federal Education and Professional Training

Ministry of Federal Education and Professional Training

www.mofept.gov.pk

 

[blain2]

Actually in the new curriculum English is taught as a subject from grade 1.

Science too. I think teaching subjects in the mother tongue at an early age will help generate a deeper understanding. Now what we need is quality textbooks.

I could be wrong but I thought there is a pretty significant shift away from English. Perhaps I misread/misunderstood. I hope it is the latter as I have seen the debacle that Zia's Urdu medium turned out to be.

That was not Zia ul Haq.

That was Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto with his nationalization program.

Unfortunately, I was there before, during and after it was implemented and it was Zia's initiative, cannot put that one on Bhutto. Alcohol ban was to Bhutto's credit (along with the break-up of East Pakistan).

 

[313ghazi]

I could be wrong but I thought there is a pretty significant shift away from English. Perhaps I misread/misunderstood. I hope it is the latter as I have seen the debacle that Zia's Urdu medium turned out to be.


I was there before, during and after. It was Zia's initiative, cannot put that one on Bhutto. Alcohol ban was to Bhutto's credit (along with the break-up of East Pakistan).

I hope not. English is here to stay as an essential language for economic development.

 

[MultaniGuy]

I hope not. English is here to stay as an essential language for economic development.

I too am of the opinion that English is important.

It is the most widely taught foreign language.

Usually when Pakistani students go to the west they have to take the TOEFL or IELTS English exam before going to university.

I could be wrong but I thought there is a pretty significant shift away from English. Perhaps I misread/misunderstood. I hope it is the latter as I have seen the debacle that Zia's Urdu medium turned out to be.


Unfortunately, I was there before, during and after it was implemented and it was Zia's initiative, cannot put that one on Bhutto. Alcohol ban was to Bhutto's credit (along with the break-up of East Pakistan).

Personally I would not have minded if Mujib became PM of Pakistan.

 

[MultaniGuy]

How many Pakistanis get higher education in English speaking countries compared to cleaners, taxi drivers, scammers going there? And why is learning a language for higher education for a few people takes priority over lower education, specially in one of the most illiterate countries in the world?

How about Pakistanis going to Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc, how are they able to settle there? Should we start teaching those languages too?

This is exactly the kind of slave mentality I am trying to talk about. We have never known an education system of our own and have simply borrowed the concept of schooling from goras which they designed to keep us their servants.

There are many countries who stick to their languages and they do much better in every field compared to Pakistanis. Two examples are Iran and Turkey.

As a Pakistani seeking higher education, I would never go to place like France, Spain, or Germany and Italy.

The language barrier is too difficult.

But English is the language of international business, so it is easier to go to Anglophone speaking countries for a higher education.

 

[khansaheeb]

Drinking and sex? Is that common in Pakistan?

(Edit: when I say sex, I mean before marriage of course)

Depends which carpet you look under.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Depends which carpet you look under.

Personally I believe immorality is everywhere. Even in Saudi Arabia there are drunks, homicides, and theft.

but it is much less in Muslim countries than say in the west.

 

[TheSolution]

Just import the curriculum from foreign countries which perform well, and adjust it slightly to your needs.

English should not be shunned, it's one of the most valuable languages.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Just import the curriculum from foreign countries which perform well, and adjust it slightly to your needs.

English should not be shunned, it's one of the most valuable languages.

The only language that people speak more is Mandarin.

That is because of China's huge population and Taiwan.

 

[TheSolution]

The only language that people speak more is Mandarin.

That is because of China's huge population and Taiwan.

English is one of the most widely spoken languages, it's predominantly used in international business, if you migrate it's the most useful language, if you work for foreign companies/people it's the most useful language (Like the IT exports IK wants to increase, for example), the most valuable academia/literature which is available is probably in English too.

English and Urdu should both be encouraged.

 

[MultaniGuy]

English is one of the most widely spoken languages, it's predominantly used in international business, if you migrate it's the most useful language, if you work for foreign companies/people it's the most useful language (Like the IT exports IK wants to increase, for example), the most valuable academia/literature which is available is probably in English too.

English and Urdu should both be encouraged.

I agree with you.