Your opinion on Pakistani expatriates? Is it really worth living abroad or outside of Pakistan?

[Faqirze]

If Pakistan reached the same standard of living as that of Turkey or South Korea, most Pakistanis would return home.

Pakistanis need to change their mentality first, especially when it comes to religion and how they view non Muslims. No one wants to live in such a radicalized and ignorant society.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

In a heartbeat. It doesn't have to be New York, just a decent standard.

I also appreciate the modesty in Pakistani culture, when you meet Brit Pakistani women here and they have a lay count of over 20, it makes you want to

The prospects of your children growing up without racism, feeling inferior and insecure is priceless.

Can't argue with you on that. Growing up experiencing racism and made to feel inferior is the MOST horrible feeling on earth no matter how materialistically the benefit. A decent standard of living, honesty, decency and good prospects would make Pakistan heaven for us.

 

[PakSarZameen47]

Can't argue with you on that. Growing up experiencing racism and made to feel inferior is the MOST horrible feeling on earth no matter how materialistically the benefit. A decent standard of living, honesty, decency and good prospects would make Pakistan heaven for us.

Hope this would happen soon, would move back in a heartbeat

 

[Menace2Society]

I don't think these housing societies are the solution. It reminds me of going to Philippines and Dominican which had gated resorts around poverty. There's no congruence. Living in a bubble is not natural.

They should revamp the cities or create new ones so everything blends together. Close off a 2 mile radius in Lahore and Karachi city centres and rebuild it from scratch, new roads, new pedestrian walkways, new buildings, underground sewage.

 

[Faqirze]

I don't think these housing societies are the solution. It reminds me of going to Philippines and Dominican which had gated resorts around poverty. There's no congruence. Living in a bubble is not natural.

They should revamp the cities or create new ones so everything blends together.

The Housing Societies are only reserved for Army men or the Elite of our society (top 5%), they could care less about regular civilian areas. They don't even contribute a dime to those.

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes we are behind the West technologically. Also our peoples are not well educated in the Academic disciplines.

Thats part of the problem.

If the government could:

1. strengthen the rule of law
2. reform the education system to fit the needs of the country
3. allow a level playing field for meritocracy both in civil service as well as allowing entrepreneurs to compete with established companies
4. speed up the courts to make them efficient but fair and through
5. enforce discipline in the work culture
6. increase investment in things like education, health care and culture

then I’m sure the country can reverse some of the brain drain and even attract many people back to speed up national development. The current setup, by and large, doesn’t seem oriented towards growth but maintaining the status quo. These 6 areas can also absorb a lot of people that have experience from abroad, and help the country catch-up to world standards, which would lay the ground work to attract FDI.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Not all overseas Pakistanis are the same. Please note that this is my personal opinion and I have lived abroad for 15 years in Saudi Arabia, I was 6 months old when I moved there. I will talk about the educated Pakistanis who live abroad in this post. The ones that go to the US or Canada are the ones that become the most westernized and by westernized I don't mean liberalized, you can be a westernized religious conservative, a westernized moderate centrist or a westernized liberal. I find British Pakistanis extremely weird, I don't mean that in a disrespectful way it is just that they are very strange to me. I find most of them incredibly conservative, their culture is not only different from the Pakistanis living in Pakistan but also from the British. The British Pakistanis who are not conservative are even weirder than the conservative British Pakistanis. Do you agree with me @Goenitz? Educated Pakistanis that go to the Middle East are radically different to the ones who settle in the UK. The number of Pakistanis that live in the middle east is huge and due to this we never feel too uncomfortable even when facing racism. Pakistani children who reside in the Middle East will have little to no non-Pakistani friends, UAE is an exception to this. Pakistanis that live in the Middle East are the only Pakistanis who will almost never have an identity crisis due to the fact we can never get the citizenship of any of the Middle Eastern countries; additionally, we grew up with Pakistanis so never felt like we were away from home but we were taught early on that the Middle East can never be our home. A majority of the children of the educated Pakistanis living in the Middle East study the British O/A levels, the ones that go for Metric and Fsc are the ones who wish to become doctors and do MBBS from Pakistan.

When I came back to Pakistan I could neither relate with the desi kids nor the kids who try too hard to be American. The reason why I didn't use the term burger here is because that term is too broad to describe a specific type of people plus the word burger has too many definitions nowadays, I am also considered a burger by many and for different reasons from each person. For me, a burger is someone who has been westernized to at least some degree and rejects aspects of desiness that he/she considers hampering and disadvantageous, if we go by this definition then I am 100% a proud burger.

For the people saying that only 1% of the population studies from English medium schools are wrong. I know hardly anyone in Lahore who studies from Urdu medium schools. Additionally, British O/A levels is studied by people of various backgrounds in Pakistan. People think that only rich kids study O/A levels, I know so many people who can be barely considered lower middle-class that study O/A levels. Vast majority of the people that I know who have studied O/A levels are from a middle-class background. So please stop spreading misinformation.

 

[TheSolution]

You are again using English as a benchmark for education. If Pakistanis don't speak good English then its a good thing. Learning English does not show quality education. English should be banned in early education and should be optional in higher education.

This mindset of yours is a result of slave mentality that is deeply ingrained into your mind. This causes the intellectually crippled state of mind which has led to this education system that we cannot figure out how to make it work for us.

When you say Indians are fluent in English, what it is good for?

I am not, read the first line of my message.

If two countries teach the same thing, with roughly the same cultural influence, yet one group ends up being much more fluent in it, what does that tell you? It clearly speaks about the quality of education here.

Secondly, your point about English is just silly, it seems like you have a dislike for the west that you're simply taking out on a language.

English is the world's most commonly spoken language. And the language primarily used for business. If you migrate it's the most useful language, when you work for foreign companies/people, it's the most useful language.

Not Urdu! (Which I did not say not to learn, I'd encourage people to learn both)

Keep in mind, English is still one of our national languages.

 

[_NOBODY_]

The Housing Societies are only reserved for Army men or the Elite of our society (top 5%), they could care less about regular civilian areas. They don't even contribute a dime to those.

Wrong, military personnel make less than 5% of the population of DHA and DHA is only one of the many many housing societies in Pakistan. Also these housing societies aren't only for the rich, you will be surprised to find the large number of middle-class living there.

I am not, read the first line of my message.

If two countries teach the same thing, with roughly the same cultural influence, yet one group ends up being much more fluent in it. What does that tell you? It clearly speaks about the quality of education here.

Secondly, your point about English is just silly, it seems like you have a dislike for the west that you're simply taking out on a language.

English is the world's most commonly spoken language. And the language primarily used for business. If you migrate it's the most useful language, when you work for foreign companies/people, it's the most useful language.

Not Urdu! (Which I did not say not to learn, I'd encourage people to learn both)

Keep in mind, English is still one of our national languages.

Finally someone said it. It doesn't matter whether we love or hate English, the fact is that English the international language and without it we can't effectively communicate with the world. Knowing English opens so many doors for us.

 

[Goenitz]

Not all overseas Pakistanis are the same. Please note that this is my personal opinion and I have lived abroad for 15 years in Saudi Arabia, I was 6 months old when I moved there. I will talk about the educated Pakistanis who live abroad in this post. The ones that go to the US or Canada are the ones that become the most westernized and by westernized I don't mean liberalized, you can be a westernized religious conservative, a westernized moderate centrist or a westernized liberal. I find British Pakistanis extremely weird, I don't mean that in a disrespectful way it is just that they are very strange to me. I find most of them incredibly conservative, their culture is not only different from the Pakistanis living in Pakistan but also from the British. The British Pakistanis who are not conservative are even weirder than the conservative British Pakistanis. Do you agree with me @Goenitz? Educated Pakistanis that go to the Middle East are radically different to the ones who settle in the UK. The number of Pakistanis that live in the middle east is huge and due to this we never feel too uncomfortable even when facing racism. Pakistani children who reside in the Middle East will have little to no non-Pakistani friends, UAE is an exception to this. Pakistanis that live in the Middle East are the only Pakistanis who will almost never have an identity crisis due to the fact we can never get the citizenship of any of the Middle Eastern countries; additionally, we grew up with Pakistanis so never felt like we were away from home but we were taught early on that the Middle East can never be our home. A majority of the children of the educated Pakistanis living in the Middle East study the British O/A levels, the ones that go for Metric and Fsc are the ones who wish to become doctors and do MBBS from Pakistan.

When I came back to Pakistan I could neither relate with the desi kids nor the kids who try too hard to be American. The reason why I didn't use the term burger here is because that term is too broad to describe a specific type of people plus the word burger has too many definitions nowadays, I am also considered a burger by many and for different reasons from each person. For me, a burger is someone who has been westernized to at least some degree and rejects aspects of desiness that he/she considers hampering and disadvantageous, if we go by this definition then I am 100% a proud burger.

For the people saying that only 1% of the population studies from English medium schools are wrong. I know hardly anyone in Lahore who studies from Urdu medium schools. Additionally, British O/A levels is studied by people of various backgrounds in Pakistan. People think that only rich kids study O/A levels, I know so many people who can be barely considered lower middle-class that study O/A levels. Vast majority of the people that I know who have studied O/A levels are from a middle-class background. So please stop spreading misinformation.

The people who grow up in Pakistan moved here 20 years ago are still the same. The born and bred here have different mentality and are mixed. Some are conservative and some aren't. However, they have different values for relations etc. They are more or less teh same but we are not compatible with them as we still like patriatical system.

 

[TheSolution]

Not all overseas Pakistanis are the same. Please note that this is my personal opinion and I have lived abroad for 15 years in Saudi Arabia, I was 6 months old when I moved there. I will talk about the educated Pakistanis who live abroad in this post. The ones that go to the US or Canada are the ones that become the most westernized and by westernized I don't mean liberalized, you can be a westernized religious conservative, a westernized moderate centrist or a westernized liberal. I find British Pakistanis extremely weird, I don't mean that in a disrespectful way it is just that they are very strange to me. I find most of them incredibly conservative, their culture is not only different from the Pakistanis living in Pakistan but also from the British. The British Pakistanis who are not conservative are even weirder than the conservative British Pakistanis. Do you agree with me @Goenitz? Educated Pakistanis that go to the Middle East are radically different to the ones who settle in the UK. The number of Pakistanis that live in the middle east is huge and due to this we never feel too uncomfortable even when facing racism. Pakistani children who reside in the Middle East will have little to no non-Pakistani friends, UAE is an exception to this. Pakistanis that live in the Middle East are the only Pakistanis who will almost never have an identity crisis due to the fact we can never get the citizenship of any of the Middle Eastern countries; additionally, we grew up with Pakistanis so never felt like we were away from home but we were taught early on that the Middle East can never be our home. A majority of the children of the educated Pakistanis living in the Middle East study the British O/A levels, the ones that go for Metric and Fsc are the ones who wish to become doctors and do MBBS from Pakistan.

When I came back to Pakistan I could neither relate with the desi kids nor the kids who try too hard to be American. The reason why I didn't use the term burger here is because that term is too broad to describe a specific type of people plus the word burger has too many definitions nowadays, I am also considered a burger by many and for different reasons from each person. For me, a burger is someone who has been westernized to at least some degree and rejects aspects of desiness that he/she considers hampering and disadvantageous, if we go by this definition then I am 100% a proud burger.

For the people saying that only 1% of the population studies from English medium schools are wrong. I know hardly anyone in Lahore who studies from Urdu medium schools. Additionally, British O/A levels is studied by people of various backgrounds in Pakistan. People think that only rich kids study O/A levels, I know so many people who can be barely considered lower middle-class that study O/A levels. Vast majority of the people that I know who have studied O/A levels are from a middle-class background. So please stop spreading misinformation.

Weird in what way? Elaborate

I think British Pakistanis are very different depending on the area they live in.

 

[_NOBODY_]

The people who grow up in Pakistan moved here 20 years ago are still the same. The born and bred here have different mentality and are mixed. Some are conservative and some aren't. However, they have different values for relations etc. They are more or less teh same but we are not compatible with them as we still like patriatical system.

Salam brother, so nice to have a chat with you again. How are you doing? I don't have any problem with conservative people, I was just saying that I find them conservative, nothing wrong with that. You live in Birmingham, you have to admit that the British Pakistanis who live over there are weird af.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Weird in what way? Elaborate

I think British Pakistanis are very different depending on the area they live in.

British Pakistanis who live in London still feel very Pakistani, it doesn't matter if they are desi or westernized. I find the British Pakistanis from Bradford and Birmingham weird. I find them weird because they feel neither Pakistani nor British, they are something else. In Pakistan, I have met Pakistanis of various ethnic and cultural backgrounds but I have found more similarities between them and myself as compared to Pakistani Brummies and myself. Please don't be offended.

 

[TheSolution]

British Pakistanis who live in London still feel very Pakistani, it doesn't matter if they are desi or westernized. I find the British Pakistanis from Bradford and Birmingham weird. I find them weird because they feel neither Pakistani nor British, they are something else. In Pakistan, I have met Pakistanis of various ethnic and cultural backgrounds but I have found more similarities between them and myself as compared to Pakistani Brummies and myself. Please don't be offended.

I'm a Londoner myself

But I think Bradford/Brummies didn't integrate as well into the culture and it merged with the local one. Personally it's the accents that get me.

But I don't know too much else about them...

 

[_NOBODY_]

I'm a Londoner myself

But I think Bradford/Brummies didn't integrate as well into the culture and it merged with the local one. Personally it's the accents that get me.

But I don't know too much else about them...

I am very curious how they became what they are now. Do all Brummie Pakistanis sound like Guz Khan?