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Yom Kippur War, Egypts Revenge, Israel's War 1973

There are plenty of publicly available sources that dispute you. No matter how much you want to salvage some face for Egypt and the Arabs, the Soviets helped them out. No matter how much figures you post on US aid to Israel, it does not change the fact that the combined Arab forces against Israel used weapons made by the Soviets. Egypt and the Arabs, with weapons and political support from the Soviets, ganged upon Israel and they got their combines ***** handed it to them.
I am talking about the war itself, Egypt didn't recieve a single tank from USSR like what US did with Israel, there is no source (including western sources) prove that Egypt recieved a single tank during the war, while Israel recieved hundereds of tanks during the war according to operation Nickel grass, there are many photos for a destroyed israeli tanks didn't exceed 220 Km, that's because they joined directly the battle immediately after they were deployed in El Arish airport.

And how can you compare the Saggers with TOWs, T-55s with M-60s, MiG-17s and MiG-21 with F-4Es, A-4s and Mirages, and finally Mavericks!!!!!
 
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I am talking about the war itself, Egypt didn't recieve a single tank from USSR like what US did with Israel, there is no source (including western sources) prove that Egypt recieved a single tank during the war, while Israel recieved hundereds of tanks during the war according to operation Nickel grass, there are many photos for a destroyed israeli tanks didn't exceed 220 Km, that's because they joined directly the battle immediately after they were deployed in El Arish airport.

And how can you compare the Saggers with TOWs, T-55s with M-60s, MiG-17s and MiG-21 with F-4Es, A-4s and Mirages, and finally Mavericks!!!!!
Regardless of how much military equipment aid and what kind, SOMEONE has to operate them. Were there any US troops involved? Those 'someones' were Israelis. Egypt lost despited being allied with several other militaries.
 
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Listen Egitto, Israel giving the Sinai back to you in exchange for recognition is not you 'winning' it back. At best, the gamble in 1973 provoked a compromise and NOT a victory for Egypt and at worst the losses of 1967 was unavenged and untaken but only exchanged as territory for moral ground. All the Israelis wanted in 1948 was recognition from Arab states, all the Arabs (i.e. Egyptians) wanted was the destruction of Israel. Now that is a very simple logic, who got their aims? Israel did despite the odds and you’re just happy with diplomatically regaining territory with was snatched from you (as a useless buffer to Israel) in the first place.

If it helps you feel better, 1973 showed that the Egyptians can win against Israel but not that they did.
 
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Regardless of how much military equipment aid and what kind, SOMEONE has to operate them. Were there any US troops involved? Those 'someones' were Israelis. Egypt lost despited being allied with several other militaries.
No, It's not israelis who operated them, there were hundereds of volunteers and pilots mainly american jews and south Africans joined the IDF during the War, Israel try to hide this fact, however, there are strong evidences of this statement, there are records for pilots speaking English not hebrew during air battles.
This is not strange, this happened nearly in every war even in '48, Plz, read about Charles Winters..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7799170.stm​

and Let's check what the Egyptian chief of military intelligence "Fuad Nassar" said about that:

(They ordered the IAF not to approach the canal to avoid Egyptian SAMs and ground air defenses, however, they destroyed a SAM battalion near the Suez Canal, we didn't know how they did it, and shortly after that they destroyed another one.

Sadat called me and asked me how this happened, I replied "I don't know, we will study the situation, and we will know soon". There was a genius scientist in the military intelligence, he left studying medicine, and joined us in the military researches unit in the military intelligence, he was very genius and he was interested in exploring everything new in the military field, he examined the destroyed sites accurately and then told me that the US army invented a new sort of missiles which could be deployed in aircrafts and launched about 30 KM from its target, this missile inversely tracks radar waves, and destroys completely its target. Then we knew that these missiles used by Israel, haven't yet used by US army.

I sent these researches and information to President Sadat, then he said his famous statement "I can fight Israel, but I can't fight US".

After the war a senior American commander who planned operation Nickel grass visited Egypt after in order to give a lecture in Nasser academy, I was still chief of military intelligence, I said to him:
"I will attend your lecture tomorrow; I will ask you three questions, so prepare your answers until tomorrow...
1- Supplying enemy during the battle is considered participating in the war? We have captured Israeli tanks which didn't exceed 200 KM; these were tanks you provided through operation Nickel grass.
2- Our intelligence knew that your airlift planes came through Libyan costs; I sent this information to President Sadat, Mubarak immediately ordered EAF to intercept those USAF aircrafts without engaging with them, but as our aircrafts came close to your airlift, you downed one.
3- Who ordered to use these missiles which destroyed our SAMs and radars along the canal? US army hasn't even used them before, who gave permission to use them against Egyptians?"

He replied "Please, don't attend the lecture tomorrow, I will coordinate with US administration, I promise to send you answers for your questions".

After nearly a month he sent me a letter, and the answers were as follows:
1- Supplying the enemy in the battlefield is not considered as a direct participation in the war.
2- As for this downed aircraft, we were defending our selves.
3- For those missiles, there are Jewish American officers were volunteers for Israel and supplied them with latest weapons.

But he didn't tell me who gave permission to use these weapons; he just told me that they were volunteers. I sent this information to President Sadat, when he read the letter he said "This letter is the best card I have in the incoming negotiations".)
 
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BATMAN said:
USSR's sold huge water pumps to Egypt
Kasrkin said:
Actually I've heard these were acquired from a British source.
Ok, I will tell you what exactly happened...
Egypt demanded from Germany those water pumps before the war, they refused and told us "What will you do with all of those huge water pumps, are you going to irrigate all the world?!!!"
So Egypt decided to manufacture them herself using experience from constructing the High dam, so it's not Russia nor Britain nor Germany, It's Egypt!
 
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Zob said:
the Egyptians had two advantages SURPRISE
As I said before no surprise, King Hussein betrayed Egypt and visited Israel before the war, and told Golda Meir about an Egyptian assault in October 6, if they are still surprised so they are fools!

Not accurate, EAF performed well during the war, they crashed IAF during the air battle of El mansoura, the largest, and the longest air battle in the jet age.
 
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sadiqams said:
Egpyts betrayal until it was too late.
Egypt didn't betray Syria. In contrary, Egypt initiated its massive assault in October 14 to help Syria, although, all Egyptian military leaders opposed this assault.
 
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Durran3 said:
Here is another documentary that seems alot more accurate than the first one i posted.
No, this documentary is not accurate, just look at it's name "Israel fights for her life and wins", since when Israel fights for her life?!!
 
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Kasrkin said:
losing not only a major portion of the east side of the canal again
No, Egypt didn't lose any inch in the eastern bank of the canal during the war, exept a small portion of the chinese farm just 30 KM2!

essentially losing the Third Army by giving the enemy the capacity to destroy (more like massacre).
They couldn't destroy the 3rd army, they couldn't occupy the abandoned and surrounded city of Suez which contain nearly 100 Egyptian soldiers faced 4 brigades, how could they destroy an army!

The Egyptian situation was dreadful.
The IDF situation in west bank was dreadful so they demanded to withdraw from west bank, and they accepted the disengagent agreement.

but the Israelis could have further massacred tens of thousands more Egyptian soldiers from the Third Army.
No they couldn't, from 22th until 28th, Egyptian army suffered only 600 casualities, while Israeli losses were much more higher.

Let's check what this IDF soldier said about the situation of IDF in the west bank:
"Sharon wantonly sacrificed his young soldiers and officers in crossing the Suez Canal, for the glory of Arik Sharon and to preserve the conquests of Zionism, I will always remember Arik Sharon as the son of a **** general for whom his own soldiers were truly only cannon fodder, Sharon successfully used propaganda to serve the goals of his tactical manoeuvres, Down with Sharon-style brutality, lies and oppression!"
Sharon the end of an era?, by Henry Lowi.

Or I will tell u something better, let's check what historians said about their crossing:

774c3a4cfd2514d94160d54f36ff949f.jpg

The Arabs have wanted to destroy Israel from the start.
It's Israel which initiated the six days war to occupy Sinai, although Egypt had no plans to destroy Israel.

Israeli politicians and generals themselves admitted that, I captured 4 quotes from western books I have, including an israeli book by Avi Shlaim, and there are another tens of quotes I can scan if you want...

658277e850d35c5c5de99553314a0d04.jpg
General Matityahu Peled
Haaretz, 19 March 1972​


a185e0a2ce2c5fa3a82f7d6a0952e526.jpg
Menachem Begin, 1982​


e7f12c6666e9d34f5a87c101dddaadfe.jpg
Yitzhak Rabin, Le Monde, 29 February 1968.​



2a91338a35c6ea94d9c8fe5eb2aaf9d1.jpg
Moshe Dayan, Yediot Ahronot after his death in 1981​
 
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No, It's not israelis who operated them, there were hundereds of volunteers and pilots mainly american jews and south Africans joined the IDF during the War, Israel try to hide this fact, however, there are strong evidences of this statement, there are records for pilots speaking English not hebrew during air battles.
If the US were to get involved in the 1973 Israeli-Arab War, there would have been something like the US Sixth Fleet floating off the coast, not a few hundreds American Jews who felt some sort of ethnic obligations towards their fellow Jews. There would have been US pilots and US infantry. If you are that serious about these few hundreds being the crucial factor for Israeli victory that said more about the Israelis than about the Egyptian and Arab militaries.
 
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I am talking about the war itself, Egypt didn't recieve a single tank from USSR like what US did with Israel, there is no source (including western sources) prove that Egypt recieved a single tank during the war, while Israel recieved hundereds of tanks during the war according to operation Nickel grass, there are many photos for a destroyed israeli tanks didn't exceed 220 Km, that's because they joined directly the battle immediately after they were deployed in El Arish airport.

And how can you compare the Saggers with TOWs, T-55s with M-60s, MiG-17s and MiG-21 with F-4Es, A-4s and Mirages, and finally Mavericks!!!!!


Hi,

Wasn't it considered the biggest airlift of arms and ammunition after the 2nd world war / Berlin airlift by the americans---then who told the israelis about the gaps in egytian armies----which was used by Ariel Sharon to go through---there was a lots of collaboration between the israelis and americans at that time and off course there were a lots of american volunteers to fight the war for israel.

Israel had more air craft---F 4 a much superior aircraft to mig 21---israel had more armoured vehicles than egypt and syria put together---if it was not for the american aid and indirect troop help, israel would have been a different story today.

Bottomline is that egypt wanted a respectable peace deal---it got that after the 73 war.
 
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Listen Egitto, Israel giving the Sinai back to you in exchange for recognition is not you 'winning' it back. At best, the gamble in 1973 provoked a compromise and NOT a victory for Egypt and at worst the losses of 1967 was unavenged and untaken but only exchanged as territory for moral ground. All the Israelis wanted in 1948 was recognition from Arab states, all the Arabs (i.e. Egyptians) wanted was the destruction of Israel. Now that is a very simple logic, who got their aims? Israel did despite the odds and you’re just happy with diplomatically regaining territory with was snatched from you (as a useless buffer to Israel) in the first place.

If it helps you feel better, 1973 showed that the Egyptians can win against Israel but not that they did.


Isnt the valiant Egyptian effort of 1973 akin to what many pakistanis like to call 'Offensive Defence' which the Pak Army would initiate against IA in a future war ??:cool:
 
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Isnt the valiant Egyptian effort of 1973 akin to what many pakistanis like to call 'Offensive Defence' which the Pak Army would initiate against IA in a future war ??

No idea how you reached that conclusion. Please elaborate.
 
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No idea how you reached that conclusion. Please elaborate.

What I meant by my statement was , Egyptians encroached few miles inside the Israeli occupied territory and then took to war of attrition . Whatever Israelis threw at them , they stayed put on their ground and caused heavy losses in both men and material on Israelis .

Doesnt the PA wants to carry the war inside Indian territory to inflict damage in both men and material to IA on its soil . Something they did in 1971 at Fazilka sub-sector ??
 
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