Yemeni Shiite rebels overtake key tribal area, defeat dominant Sunni tribes

[Surenas]

Sounds interesting. Then I guess that this forum is sometimes a field study for itself, LOL. Do you read the original works in Arabic/Persian/Turkic or just translated works. Have you done any field study? I mean visits to Turkey, Iran or the Arab world for instance? Sounds interesting anyway. Is it a hybrid between history and Islam with a emphasis on the Middle East for obvious reasons? Are some of the professors from the ME or are most just locals?

Its definitely an interesting study. Its a mix between history, religion (Islam), linguistic and how the West traditionally viewed the Middle East. The courses I mentioned were given in the first semester. In this semester we have History of Modern Israel (Israeli-Arab conflict), History of the Middle East (1500-present), Literature of the Middle East (Persian/Arabic poetry, etc), Shiism and Study of Islam. For now most of the students still aren't able to read original works in Arabic, Turkish or Persians. In the first semester basic knowledge of these languages were given, but in the second semester we slowly have to read original works. For instance, students of Persian are learned to read the Shahname, while students Arabic are getting familiar with Arabic poetry.

No field study yet. But our student organization organized a trip this year too Israel, although I didn't enroll myself for it. Students Persians can follow an internship in Esfahan or Dushanbe (Tajikistan) in the 3rd year, Arabic students in Cairo and Turkic students in Ankara if I'm right. The professors are locals as well as non-locals. For instance my history teacher is French, while my 'Linguistic history of the Middle East' teacher is Arabic, although he comes from the States. One of my Area Studies teacher was Indian. But the Arab professor, specialized in old-Arabic language, is by far the most interesting professor we have. He is currently completing a comprehensive study of pre-Islamic Arabic based on documentary sources from the 6th century CE and earlier. He claims pre-Islamic Arabs (nomads) were bi-lingual, as scriptures have been found in Jordan of Arabic texts written on stones, while at the same Greek texts as well. So he claims Arabs knew about other languages, and especially Aramaic and even Greek. Like the following inscription found in Harran, Syria, and dates back to 568 CE.

Note the fact that both Greek and Arabic were used for this inscription.

I believe your a smart guy but sometimes you have racist outbreaks which makes your comments look ridiculous.

Just my two cents, no offence.

No offense taken. You're right to some extent. But in real life I am more friendlier than you'd think I am. This forum sometimes has the quality to get the worst out of you. Especially with me. But from now on I promise to stop making those kind of posts.

 

[al-Hasani]

Saddam didn’t discriminate on Shias in particular but on anyone that opposes his rule.

Let your Shia Arabs that are obsessed about Sunni Muslims and in particular KSA tell them what happened when they rose up in 1991 and the massacres committed against them. You can cry as much as you want to but there has been a sectarian war in Iraq since 2003 and before that as well. No other country in the region is even comparable. The closest is Lebanon. Obviously outside of what we see in Syria. Everyone know this.
My comment was simply to draw a conclusion to another Arab Muslim country in the ME who have somewhat of the same problems but which is not as filled with sectarian problems. In Yemen there is only the Houthi's and Al-Qaeda on the Arabian Peninsula. The latter is only limited to a few thousand of people and in general few supporters. Many are foreigners. The Houthis are more of a tribal/political/regional movement rather than a religious one. They only use religion as one of their ways to gain influence.

Anyway I am not even sure why I am bothering Doritos11 since you have on many occasions shown that you are not fully aware of the regions history or the Islamic one.

Anyway let us just say that Iraq is the most non-sectarian country and peaceful and that Yemen is the worst to make you happy. Now don't go off-topic or troll.

@Doritos11

Yes, Saddam Hussein was not sectarian by any means. We saw that.

 

[Alshawi1234]

lets not forget who waged war first, wasn't it for the Ahmar tribe and its allies who cut off the roads and kidnapped houthi travellers. they sent hundreds of tribal fighters to fight the houthis.

Zaydis belieF: basically they believe that Imamah is chosen by the people and that Imam Ali was more rightful than the first three Caliphs, however, they do not have the same strict view of the first three caliphs as twelver shias. they followed the Zaid Ibn Ali ibn Hussien Ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib who was martyred during an uprising against the Umayads in revenge for his grandfather Imam Hussien. Where as twelver Shias consider his brother Mohamed Al Baqir and Later on Jaafar ibn Mohammed to be the Imams.


Aside from religion, I think the Houthis and the Yemeni government should work something out and ally to fight alqaeda instead of this mess. The Houthis will be glad to stay part of Yemen of they get their demands. But again that is impossible considering the Salafist influence in the governement. Some of the Yemeni army divisions are loyal to Al Ahmar, which pretty much builds up a solid trust barrier.

 

[Informant]

Ah so beautiful this Shia sunni thing. KSA and Iran are chill, others are fucked brutally at that.

 

[al-Hasani]

lets not forget who waged war first, wasn't it for the Ahmar tribe and its allies who cut off the roads and kidnapped houthi travellers. they sent hundreds of tribal fighters to fight the houthis.

Zaydis belieF: basically they believe that Imamah is chosen by the people and that Imam Ali was more rightful than the first three Caliphs, however, they do not have the same strict view of the first three caliphs as twelver shias. they followed the Zaid Ibn Ali ibn Hussien Ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib who was martyred during an uprising against the Umayads in revenge for his grandfather Imam Hussien. Where as twelver Shias consider his brother Mohamed Al Baqir and Later on Jaafar ibn Mohammed to be the Imams.


Aside from religion, I think the Houthis and the Yemeni government should work something out and ally to fight alqaeda instead of this mess. The Houthis will be glad to stay part of Yemen of they get their demands. But again that is impossible considering the Salafist influence in the governement. Some of the Yemeni army divisions are loyal to Al Ahmar, which pretty much builds up a solid trust barrier.

No, the Houthi's started this mess first. But it traces back to long before the current conflict. It is much more complicated than this.

Houthi's and Al-Qaeda are two things of the same coin. Both radical cults that use religion to expand their political and financial influence. Both are harmful for Yemen.

In general Zaydi's are closer in Islamic jurisprudence to Sunnis, especially of the Shafi'i and Hanafi fiqh, than the remaining Shia groups. They are also the oldest Shia sect. But this has already been discussed in this thread.

The Yemeni government should not negotiate with terrorists. Neither the Houthi's nor Al-Qaeda who are both radical movements harmful for Yemenis. The Houthis do not represent the Zaydis in Northwestern Yemen. The Yemeni army is full of Sunnis and Zaydis but the Yemeni army is obviously against the Houthi's and Al-Qaeda and other militant groups. In fact Zaydi officers dominate the Yemeni army which is a legacy of Ali Abdullah Saleh who himself was a Zaydi. The army should be the only tolerated military movement in a given country.

If you are so fond of radical Shia militias then support autonomy for the Mahdi Army in Iraq and other Shia radical militias. Or support HizbAlShaitan ruling parts of Southern Lebanon. Maybe give Al-Anbar to ISIS. Very good idea. Not.

 

[Surenas]

About Iraq: Saddam did perform sectarian policies, but Doritos is right in a sense that Saddam was not a real sectarianist, in contrast to some Ottoman sultans in history. Saddam, especially after the Iranian revolution, considered Shia Iraqis to be Iranian lackeys, which he had to tightly control. He considered Shias to be a political threat to his ruling, not a religious threat to Sunnism or Iraq. Some ministers of Saddam, like Saeed al-Sahhaf, were even Shia.

 

[al-Hasani]

Its definitely an interesting study. Its a mix between history, religion (Islam), linguistic and how the West traditionally viewed the Middle East. The courses I mentioned were given in the first semester. In this semester we have History of Modern Israel (Israeli-Arab conflict), History of the Middle East (1500-present), Literature of the Middle East (Persian/Arabic poetry, etc), Shiism and Study of Islam. For now most of the students still aren't able to read original works in Arabic, Turkish or Persians. In the first semester basic knowledge of these languages were given, but in the second semester we slowly have to read original works. For instance, students of Persian are learned to read the Shahname, while students Arabic are getting familiar with Arabic poetry.

No field study yet. But our student organization organized a trip this year too Israel, although I didn't enroll myself for it. Students Persians can follow an internship in Esfahan or Dushanbe (Tajikistan) in the 3rd year, Arabic students in Cairo and Turkic students in Ankara if I'm right. The professors are locals as well as non-locals. For instance my history teacher is French, while my 'Linguistic history of the Middle East' teacher is Arabic, although he comes from the States. One of my Area Studies teacher was Indian. But the Arab professor, specialized in old-Arabic language, is by far the most interesting professor we have. He is currently completing a comprehensive study of pre-Islamic Arabic based on documentary sources from the 6th century CE and earlier. He claims pre-Islamic Arabs (nomads) were bi-lingual, as scriptures have been found in Jordan of Arabic texts written on stones, while at the same Greek texts as well. So he claims Arabs knew about other languages, and especially Aramaic and even Greek. Like the following inscription found in Harran, Syria, and dates back to 568 CE.

Note the fact that both Greek and Arabic were used for this inscription.



No offense taken. You're right to some extent. But in real life I am more friendlier than you'd think I am. This forum sometimes has the quality to get the worst out of you. Especially with me. But from now on I promise to stop making those kind of posts.

Very interesting. What do you plan to do afterwards with that education? I mean what are the options? What about diplomacy or analytical/political work? You could be an export on Middle Eastern matters and maybe work inside Iran or abroad? Here in Denmark there is actually an Iranian of a somewhat similar background to you I believe. He has written books on the ME as well and is active in political debates/analyses that concern the ME especially the Syrian civil war. Most people in Europe are completely clueless about the politics of ME and history.

His name is Poya Pakzad.



There is also a quite famous Iranian liberal (anti-Islam and anti-Mullah) who is called Farshad Kholghi.



Then there is an Syrian Arab politician called Nasser Khader who is a Muslim liberal and who have had debates with Danish racists and Islamists.



Naser Khader - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He is pro Syrian opposition and has had debates with the two Iranians but nothing dramatical. I have met him and Poya Pakzad who also sometimes lectures at my local university although this has nothing to do with chemical engineering obviously.

Yes, that sounds very interesting. You should have gone to Israel. I have only heard good things about it in terms of being a tourist/visitor.

Yes, that is very probable. After all Aramaic, Hebrew, Ugaritic and Phoencian are especially close languages with Arabic and all were spoken at one point in the Arab world (Aramaic was lingua franca of the ME for a very long time) and many of the Arabic speaking people lived close to areas of other influence. Even parts of Arabia belonged to the Roman Empire and one Roman Emperor was even an Arab (Philip the Arab). Arabic has a few Greek loanwords and Greece is geographically close to the Arab world/ME and it was especially close to parts of Levant and Egypt which are all regions neighboring Hijaz and Jordan and who all influenced them and vice versa. So it is very probable although I actually don't know much about the linguistic history of the ME other than the basics. Greece after all was the most similar/geographically close civilization to the ME and as an Iranian you probably already know about the close ties between Greece and Iran for instance. So it would not surprise me at all. I know that the first Christian Arabs/other Semitic people in the ME (Levant and parts of Arabia) used Aramaic as their primary source but some of the works were translated to Greek in order to spread Christianity but also to nearby Armenia which at that time was much closer to the ME than it is now and also much bigger. Armenia was apparently the first sovereign country in the world who adopted Christianity as their state religion. To this day Armenians are very religious.

Just out of interest. Is Esfandiari a Iranian surname? How common is it and is it a Persian surname? I assume that it is. I ask for personal reasons.

About Iraq: Saddam did perform sectarian policies, but Doritos is right in a sense that Saddam was not a real sectarianist, in contrast to some Ottoman sultans in history. Saddam, especially after the Iranian revolution, considered Shia Iraqis to be Iranian lackeys, which he had to tightly control. He considered Shias to be a political threat to his ruling, not a religious threat to Sunnism or Iraq. Some ministers of Saddam, like Saeed al-Sahhaf, were even Shia.

Yes, Saddam Hussein at his core and the Ba'athi ideology was not sectarian. I agree with that. But ideology and practice are two different things. As any other violent dictator he opposed every resistance against him whatever they came from. Even his own family members tasted that. But in general his rule was heavily dominated by the Sunni Arabs on nearly all fields who traditionally were the ruling class in Iraq. Many of his politics also inflicted much more harm on Shia Arabs than Sunni Arabs. Best exemplified with how he dealt with leading Iraqi Shia clerics and the events in the South and the uprising there.

The point was just that sectarianism is not a foreign concept for Iraq. It has a very long history and in hindsight it is not a strange thing that the main split in Islam occurred in what is now Iraq. Sectarianism is not only based on religion as well. Just look at the ethnic rivalries that existed. Arab-Kurdish conflict comes to mind.

Anyway today sectarianism is a main issue in Iraq, even among the common man, but it grew a lot since 2003. I do not think that Yemen is similar in any way and the only country I can compare with iraq in this aspect is Lebanon (which was always the most sectarian Arab country) and today Syria which is the worst.

 

[Surenas]

Very interesting. What do you plan to do afterwards with that education? I mean what are the options? What about diplomacy or analytical/political work? You could be an export on Middle Eastern matters and maybe work inside Iran or abroad? Here in Denmark there is actually an Iranian of a somewhat similar background to you I believe. He has written books on the ME as well and is active in political debates/analyses that concern the ME especially the Syrian civil war. Most people in Europe are completely clueless about the politics of ME and history.

I want to do something with analyses, especially political analyses of the region (Middle East). I have studied International Politics before, and studying the Middle East apart is a nice addition I think. I do not necessarily want to work in Iran, especially not with the current regime in power. You have no real freedom of intellect. But I do want to give a fair and objective view of the region, both in historical context and the present political context. Yes, most people in Europe are clueless when it comes the Middle East, and that is strange since both their language (Indo-European) and religion (Christianity) has come from the East.

Its funny to note that immigrants (Arabs, Iranians and Turks) are usually fragmented in their own homelands/region, while united in identity in Europe.

Yes, that sounds very interesting. You should have gone to Israel. I have only heard good things about it in terms of being a tourist/visitor.

Me too, but if I ever go to Israel, it would be on my own (or with friends), but not an organized trip.

Yes, that is very probable. After all Aramaic, Hebrew, Ugaritic and Phoencian are especially close languages with Arabic and all were spoken at one point in the Arab world (Aramaic was lingua franca of the ME for a very long time) and many of the Arabic speaking people lived close to areas of other influence. Even parts of Arabia belonged to the Roman Empire and one Roman Emperor was even an Arab (Philip the Arab). Arabic has a few Greek loanwords and Greece is geographically close to the Arab world/ME and it was especially close to parts of Levant and Egypt which are all regions neighboring Hijaz and Jordan and who all influenced them and vice versa. So it is very probably although I actually don't know much about the linguistic history of the ME other than the basics. Greece after all was the most similar/geographically close civilization to the ME and as an Iranian you probable already know about the close ties between Greece and Iran for instance. So it would not surprise me at all. I know that the first Christian Arabs/other Semitic people in the ME (Levant and parts of Arabia) used Aramaic as their primary source but some of the works were translated to Greek in order to spread Christianity but also to nearby Armenia which at that time was much closer to the ME than it is now and also much bigger.

In fact, many ancient Greeks claimed that Greek civilization was a Eastern civilization. The Greco script is even based on the Phoenician script. According to my Arab teacher, Arabic was used by Arabs as a everyday language (spoken in their homes, etc) while Greek was used as a high status language. Aramaic was the right balance between these low status and high status classifications, and therefor was used by Arabs to function in those empires they were living in.

Just out of interest. Is Esfandiari a Iranian surname? How common is it and is it a Persian surname? I assume that it is. I ask for personal reasons.

Yes, Esfandiari is a pure Iranian surname. The original Persian name was Sepandiar, after the legendary Iranian hero, but it was eventually Arabized into Esfandiar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esfandiyār

 

[al-Hasani]

I want to do something with analyses, especially political analyses of the region (Middle East). I have studied International Politics before, and studying the Middle East apart is a nice addition I think. I do not necessarily want to work in Iran, especially not with the current regime in power. You have no real freedom of intellect. But I do want to give a fair and objective view of the region, both in historical context and the present political context. Yes, most people in Europe are clueless when it comes the Middle East, and that is strange since both their language (Indo-European) and religion (Christianity) has come from the East.

Its funny to note that immigrants (Arabs, Iranians and Turks) are usually fragmented in their own homelands/region, while united in identity in Europe.



Me too, but if I ever go to Israel, it would be on my own (or with friends), but not an organized trip.



In fact, many ancient Greeks claimed that Greek civilization was a Eastern civilization. The Greco text is even based on the Phoenician text. According to my Arab teacher, Arabic was used by Arabs as a everyday language (spoken in their homes, etc) while Greek was used as a high status language. Aramaic was the right balance between these low status and high status classifications, and therefor was used by Arabs to function in those empires they were living in.



Yes, Esfandiari is a pure Iranian surname. The original Persian name was Sepandiar, after the legendary Iranian hero, but it was eventually Arabized into Esfandiar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esfandiyār

Yes, that's also an interesting work. You probably mostly work independently and you also get to travel which I personally like a lot. In fact that kind of field always interested me but somehow I never made a career out of it. In the ME humanistic subjects are somewhat frowned upon (maybe the wrong word) in general since most parents/relatives want their children to become a doctor, engineer or a lawyer. In more religious families pursuing the clerical field is also sought after although that is a very tiny minority. In the old days, I mean in the old Islamic societies (Pre WW1 in the ME), the clergy was a prestigious class juts like the Catholic/Orthodox clergy in Europe. So not much difference there.

Yes, but many Middle Eastern people are not well versed in European history either although they are probably better than vice versa the other way around. But this is bound in the dominance of Western culture in general. From politics, culture, language (English in particular and French earlier), entertainment, modern dresses etc.
Yes, I don't really like organized trips either. Prefer traveling with family or friends. I am yet to travel around (I mean hijacking, traveling across several countries with train, car etc.) as some do.

Yes, but now all of the Western world, practically 90% which had nothing to do with it really, claim Greek civilization as their own. While never even being ruled by Greeks or under their influence. Only much later during the Renaissance millenniums later did they adopt it together with Roman etc. At least the people/cultures of the ME are much more intermingled with cultural influences and actual genetics also show. I for instance believe that a Greek/Italain person have more in common with a West Asian (Middle Eastern) person than an Finnic, Danish, Lithuanian or Icelandic person in many ways. Even the geography, how ordinary people look, the food, mentality is more similar to that of the ME. But that's what I have gathered from visiting family in Europe, living in France and visiting Spain, Italy, Greece and other Southern European countries.
Well, I think when you mention nthe Arabs then you mainly talk about those who lived in what is now Northern Hijaz, Southern Jordan and other areas of Levant. Because those were the areas influenced by Greece/Byzantine and the Romans. For instance in Iraq, Yemen, Oman and the Gulf the Greek influence was not very big and dare I say minimal. That's at least what I am assuming. From the history I know about and when I put 1 and 1 together then Egypt, the Levant and parts of Hijaz and Northern Arabia were the ones exposed most to Greek and Roman influences and some of that territory was even part of the Roman Empire for some time although it like all the other areas in ME remained loyal to their culture.
Well, that was quite shocking to know actually. I never thought of it as Iranian. But more Armenian/Caucasian if anything.

 

[KingMamba]

No, I didn't said that. I just said that they weren't Sunnis. The Shia identity only fully developed after the Battle of Karbala. Before that moment, the Shia movement was just a political movement. The religious identity came much later.

The men I mentioned were years after Karbala.

@Surenas

Your Arabic professor who is studying pre Islamic Arabs is he focused in on one particular part of the Arab world or just Arabs in general? I mean there is little doubt that pre Islamic Syrians spoke both Arabic and Aramaic because their bibles were written entirely in Aramaic. Also it shouldn't be too shocking if some Arabs in Southern Arabia had some knowledge of Hebrew considering there were so many Jews along with even a Jewish kingdom in that part of the peninsula.

 

[SALMAN F]

Al Qaeda and salafi group fight against the houthists some Sunnis on twitter ask why when the Yemeni army attack houthists all Qaeda attack the Yemeni army some other Sunnis they said houthists burned Damajj and our leaders support al sisi and don't do anything about houthi threat

 

[Kompromat]

In that case expect some sort of Saudi intervention, either direct or covert.

 

[Malik Alashter]

The reality talks, Sunni are the most sectarian in Iraq. All the killings there, just because the sunni can't accept to see the Siite control their country and mange their resources. I don't see any solution to the crisis in Iraq without a war bring the sunni down to where they feel how their hates did nothing to them more than destroying their cities and killing their man sometimes war and only war is a treatment to sick people with hate. this is the most unfortunate fate Iraq is gliding too of course some regimes in the area the Arab regimes I have no doubt they are feeding the sunni hate with every thing possible.

 

[al-Hasani]

SALMAN AL-FARSI, stop trolling every thread and educate yourself about the conflict. Thank you.

In that case expect some sort of Saudi intervention, either direct or covert.

Well, after all this is happening in our backyard so it would be strange if we did not react. But for now the situation remains fairly in control meaning that it can still be handled. Yemen is a problematic country unfortunately. Blessed with an ancient history (one of the oldest in the world) and a beautiful country and kind-hearted people but the country has so many problems that it is unbelievable. I simply do not see a Yemen without major problems in my life time. Unfortunately. No major oil and gas production to safe the country either. In many ways it is similar to Pakistan's problematic neighbor Afghanistan.

 

[Shah9]

Saudi Arabia should back a Yemeni army operation to obliterate those scum.

Saudi Arabia stopped giving aids and support to Yemeni govts after the truce with Houthis because they discovered Yemeni govts had cooperated with Houthis against Al Qaeda. That's why Yemen is poor filled with corruption.

Because Al Qaeda is more of a threat to the Peninsula than Houthis who just want a bit of Yemen. Saudi should start talking to Houthis and Yemeni govts to obliterate Al Qaeda.