Y-7 AWACS

[houshanghai]

typical selectively blind...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/104643-j-11b-bs-now-all-equip-ws-10-engines-2.html

So manyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy j11b(ws10)

 

[S10]

i can give you more examples.
but you ever here the PLA complain?
no, apparently their equipment is top notch even if their tanks are death traps on the lines of T-90s.
get real.
The InAF deployed BVR fighters in the mid 80's, while the PLAAF got them in the mid 90s.
the PLAAF has vanilla flankers, even purchased a licences production of the airframe.
the IAF, returned the Su-30MK and collabrated on the Su-30MKI.
The PA, InA, have a more proffesional military. thats not an argument. These two militaries, have actually fought a real war with tanks and fighters, with out a massive death tole. they have never employed a bleeding strategy nore have they used conscription.

Type 99 mirrors the T-80, which lineage comes from T-64. The T-80/T-64 family of Russian tanks formed the elite core of Soviet tank force, while the cheaper and less capable T-90/T-72 family formed the bulk.

China imported Aspide MK1 from Italy in the mid 1980's, giving its fleet of J-8II BVR engagement capability. So no, India was and still isn't ahead. The first batch of Su-27S that was sold to China was directly pulled from Soviet V-PVO service, most advanced at the time. Since then, China has been able to produce J-11 on its own and introduced two improved variants. In short, China can replace any attrition suffered in a war. India on the other hand...

Alot of good your "professional" troops did you in 1962 against China's conscripts. In addition, conscription in China is selective, with only those that are willing to serve accepted. In essence, it is an all volunteer force since no one is being forced into the military.

 

[vce]

...that was the idea of license production. thats what China payed for. to go about, replacing avonics with domestic products, is at China's own risk, with RUssian consultation. China was even given liesence production of the AF-31 engines. do you know what that means?
Russia transfered ToT.
China used the machinery which is used to cut the blades,
for the WS-10 design.
that was the idea.

Forgot to mention.
If the Russian engines need to be replaced. what do they get replaced with? You know the Su-30MKK and Su-27s? are they going to be replaced with WS-10? if so, then you just found out the difference between a AF-31 engine and WS-10.
my speculation is that the AL-31 and WS-10 are the same. Difference being slight.
If these engines, were radically difference.
The J-10's J-11's would need remodifications to re-engine the aircraft with Al-31's.
so like the J-11 is a Su-27 built in China
the WS-10 is Al-31 engine built in China.
go R&D.

its ridiculous to claim that. you show a lack of basic knowledge of jet engine
liesence production of the AF-31 engines.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1490170&postcount=65
Besides the core,there are also significant defferences(size,configuration and cycle parameters) between that two engines.
FWS10 rotor stages: 3 fan +9 HPC+1 HPT+2 LPT
OPR:>30
BPR:~0.8
TET:~1700K

AL-31F : 4 fan +9 HPC+1 HPT+1 LPT
OPR:~23
BPR:0.571
TET:1665K
FEDERAL STATE UNITARY ENTERPRISE «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | Production | AEROENGINES | AL-31F

AL31F has a 4-stage fan with a pressure ratio of 3.54 and an airflow of 112kg/s at SLS. its inlet diameter is 905mm.
FWS10's using a 3-stage fan with a mass airflow of 120kg/s and max inlet diameter is approximately 950mm.


picture is worth a thousand words:

 

[Chinese Century]

india is decades behind china in every aspect.

india still has no domestic companies and is still reliant on foreigners for everything.
india is not a competitor to the US, that is why the US media never talks about india because everyone knows its US vs china for global supremacy. china is the only nation that the US considers that can overtake them in ever aspect.

china is way ahead of india, its not even funny.

india vs china in a war would have the same result as the previous war, a total humiliation for india.
no military can be a true global powerhouse without having domestic industries producing technology. india relies 100% on foreigners for everything.

as far as india economy only 10 years behind china, thats only gdp numbers and the indian economy is a massive bubble based on debt based consumption, once the bubble burst, the indian economy will crash. no country that goes into debt to have gdp growth will ever succeed. greece is 100% proof of that.

and no country that relies on foreigners for all technolgy forever will ever be a superpower. china borrows ideas from foreigners and improves upon them and produces themselves, this happens in every industry. replicate, then innnovate, its how every nation rose up from developing to developed.
india dont even have the capability to replicate, that shows how far behind india is compared to china.

to say india is even remotely close to china is kooky fantasy. india is even being overtaken by china in IT services where india had a lead but that lead is shrinking so fast.

the truth is that india is no more developed militarily than pakistan, both have corrupt political systems that appear all great from the outside but u look closer and the cracks start to appear, just look at how the commonwealth games in india turned out compared with the 2008 beijing olympics.

the gap between china and india is atleast 30 years.

 

[desimorty]

typical selectively blind...

do i see a full squadron?

I can only laugh at that stupidity. Here is a hint, WS-10 is based off of American technology, not Russian. Hell, even Wikipedia got it right and you're too retarded to look it up.

if that was true.
everytime you the PLAAF replaces AL-31 engines, the airframe would need modifications.
you know kinda like how the Gripen needed to be modified, from the intakes to the undercarriage. but you know wikipedia is great source. i'm sure they taught you that in school right?
speaking of wikipedia and chinese defence.
heres some.

According to an interview publicised in January 2007 with J-10 pilot Li Cunbao (李存&#23453, the J-10 had not yet been equipped with the domestic WS-10 engine because although the WS-10 could match the performance of its Russian counterpart (the AL-31), there was a serious drawback; the WS-10 took longer to "spool up", i.e. there was a delay in reaching the same thrust output as the Russian engine.
WS-10A is reported to have

On 2 April 2009, the director of AVIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China) Lin Zuoming (林左&#40483, stated that there were problems with the quality control procedures on the WS-10A production line, meaning the Taihang turbofan was still of unsatisfactory quality. He said that solving these problems would be a key step.[7] The Chinese engines have been lasting 30 hours at a time vs 400 for the Russian originals.[8]

as of 2009. now thats a short time from now. and thats not a lot of hours
as per everything else, the Chinese engines, are very close to Al-31. even the thrust and performance is similair.
unfortunatly, not much is known about the actual air requiments of the engine for thrust.
when you change the engine, you have to change the aircraft. that much is known. if indeed the WS-10 is similar to lets say f414, then even more modifications to the airframe would be required!
logic states,( and all we have is logic because the PLA won't share information) that if your going to design an engine, to replace an engine, the two need to be similar in weight, deminsion, performance, and air consumption.
now when we look at when the Gripen and Hornet, where re-engined, the airframe and expeically the intakes were slightly, if not drastically changed.
engines are either built for the airframe, or the aircraft is built for the engine. that much is a fact.
besides, the ToT to built local Al-31 engines, comes with machines, one would think these machines build engines to similair performance.
now i take you to the Kaveri project.
The Russians offered to help manufacture the blades, for Kaveri,
however, only the Germans, French, Americans actually have the machinery to build these blades.
this is because the Kaveri is very much so similar to F404 and f414 m88 and eurojets.
scecma, the manufactures of m88, actually are collaberating with GTRE to combine the Kaveri assets that have cleared with a M88 core. The project is called the K-10/
were as the pure kaveri is flight testing to certify compnents as the k9.

 

[peaceful]

why bother replying to this troll?
they have lost the competition, they are now just crying hard.

guys, we should focus on the the gap we have with the US, explaining to indian trolls doesn't make us stronger.

 

[houshanghai]

j20 has flown again today and its landing gear is retracted

 

[peaceful]

j20 has flown again today and its landing gear is retracted

my hat off to the engineers, workers and test pilot in Chengdu 132 base.

 

[desimorty]

Type 99 mirrors the T-80, which lineage comes from T-64. The T-80/T-64 family of Russian tanks formed the elite core of Soviet tank force, while the cheaper and less capable T-90/T-72 family formed the bulk.

i won't argue on the t-80 being more advanced than the T-72, and the T-90 being a improved varient of the T-72
but the T-80 and T-90 are very similar in performance, infact, they even have the same defects.
but you already know that.

China imported Aspide MK1 from Italy in the mid 1980's, giving its fleet of J-8II BVR engagement capability. So no, India was and still isn't ahead. The first batch of Su-27S that was sold to China was directly pulled from Soviet V-PVO service, most advanced at the time. Since then, China has been able to produce J-11 on its own and introduced two improved variants. In short, China can replace any attrition suffered in a war. India on the other hand...

i disagree.
true bvr was limited in the J-8. 40 km, in mid 80s.
and another modernization program that was cancelled when the americans bailed.
this is compared to a mig-29 or mirage purchased in 1980s. armed with r27s and micas
even the PAF was lacking back then.
Since then thanks to a bankrupt nation, China was able to purchase ToT of J-11's. Something which India opted for in a limited manner. In a war of attrition, the InAF can still build Jagaurs, Mig27s, MiG-21s.
but, its not needed. reason why, is because, these aircraft are far more advanced then they use to be. A dumb bomb or missile strike on a factory that produces, lets say the engines, will halt the production. This is true for even the F-22 assembly line. Although, the americans can more easily replace their machines that are manufactured, if its just a single strike. During the cold war, the Americans didn't expect to be manufacturing jets, after 6 months. but the soviets could still mass produce migs which are simpler to make.
and hers a interesting story

The original deal would have shifted the entire production cycle to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), but this “full indigenization” would reportedly almost double the planes’ cost. Meanwhile, the life cycles of India’s fighter fleet meant that ongoing indigenization project problems and delays risked serious difficulties keeping India’s overall fighter strength at acceptable levels.

Costs & Time Kill Full SU-30MKI Production in India (updated)
so as you know, its not always cost effective to produce everything in lets say China.
ie, you need to buy the machines. So, would you rather buy a capachino machine or go to starbucks?
if you only need so much.
in PLAAF's case, they expect the complete ToT. and i;ll explain more later.
but the su-30 mki has achieved an indian effort to indiginzation. meaning the equipment they wanted, not what they didn't need. ie ability to build blades for the al-31s.

The MRCA will come with engine ToT, and I think that is probabily the most important part of the MRCA tender.
all of this will help India, or HAL atleast modernize its manufacturing lines. It can be implemented on the Tejas full scale production.
China OTOH had no choice. It was either Flanker ToT, or MiG-29 etc...
The ToT of the flanker, helped China produce J-10s.

no matter how you look at it, its basically the same plan, but a different apporach, as Indias relations with Europe and America and Russia is different from China's.
The europeans, are not afraid of China copying their equipment. This would just cause them, to have a bad reputation. but rather, they are following the military embargos in place since the early 90s.
Only the Russians ignore it.
i'll give you another example.
China produces licensed built eurocopters, but they call it Z-9.
its the same thing, since the parts can be interchanged. If the Chinese produced illegal copies of the aircraft, they will not be able to do business agian. that is a corporate rule, that favors both parties.
The Chinese are not allowed to directly sell their J-11s, to Pakistan with out Russian approval. No matter, how Chinese the J-11 is, at the end of the day, it is still Russian IP. since the parts for the J-11 can be swaped with Su-27s.
this is to build a domestic industry.
i hope i'm making this clear. even if the J-11 and J-10 are produced using the same method, the J-10 is Chinas to sell.

Alot of good your "professional" troops did you in 1962 against China's conscripts. In addition, conscription in China is selective, with only those that are willing to serve accepted. In essence, it is an all volunteer force since no one is being forced into the military.

i really have to read the rest of the post.
i;ll pick at you.
where is south tibet?
why is it there?
how has it?
what happened to Sikkim is Chinese??
a short incidence, that did not escalate, ended with the PLA withdrawing from Sikkim, South Tibet back to LOC, with out airforce involved. and you claim it a victory. you sir have lost land! and more importantly Sikkim.
Do you wanna know why the PLA withdrew? you can either find out yourself, or i'll answer for you on my next post.

india is decades behind china in every aspect.

india still has no domestic companies and is still reliant on foreigners for everything.
india is not a competitor to the US, that is why the US media never talks about india because everyone knows its US vs china for global supremacy. china is the only nation that the US considers that can overtake them in ever aspect.

china is way ahead of india, its not even funny.

india vs china in a war would have the same result as the previous war, a total humiliation for india.
no military can be a true global powerhouse without having domestic industries producing technology. india relies 100% on foreigners for everything.

as far as india economy only 10 years behind china, thats only gdp numbers and the indian economy is a massive bubble based on debt based consumption, once the bubble burst, the indian economy will crash. no country that goes into debt to have gdp growth will ever succeed. greece is 100% proof of that.

and no country that relies on foreigners for all technolgy forever will ever be a superpower. china borrows ideas from foreigners and improves upon them and produces themselves, this happens in every industry. replicate, then innnovate, its how every nation rose up from developing to developed.
india dont even have the capability to replicate, that shows how far behind india is compared to china.

to say india is even remotely close to china is kooky fantasy. india is even being overtaken by china in IT services where india had a lead but that lead is shrinking so fast.

the truth is that india is no more developed militarily than pakistan, both have corrupt political systems that appear all great from the outside but u look closer and the cracks start to appear, just look at how the commonwealth games in india turned out compared with the 2008 beijing olympics.

the gap between china and india is atleast 30 years.

china superpower. thats why Taiwan is independent and south tibet is Indian hands and even has MPs in Indian parliament.
regards,
you idoit.

 

[peaceful]

please don't feed this troll.

just click that report button, not difficult.

 

[teddy]

why bother replying to this troll?
they have lost the competition, they are now just crying hard.

guys, we should focus on the the gap we have with the US, explaining to indian trolls doesn't make us stronger.

YOU KNOW WHAT? YOU ARE COMPLETELY ABSOLOUTELY UNTIMATELY RIGHT! I THINK SO TOO!!

 

[teddy]

I think we should stop argu with jett, coz we had susscefully wasted him lot of time.

 

[desimorty]

please don't feed this troll.

just click that report button, not difficult.

you've been the top troll.
i'm trying this guy to explain to me why the kj-2000 has 3 AESA panels.
do you want to explain to me or do you want to make short comments to call me troll. You know who else is troll?

india is decades behind china in every aspect.

india still has no domestic companies and is still reliant on foreigners for everything.
india is not a competitor to the US, that is why the US media never talks about india because everyone knows its US vs china for global supremacy. china is the only nation that the US considers that can overtake them in ever aspect.

china is way ahead of india, its not even funny.

india vs china in a war would have the same result as the previous war, a total humiliation for india.
no military can be a true global powerhouse without having domestic industries producing technology. india relies 100% on foreigners for everything.

as far as india economy only 10 years behind china, thats only gdp numbers and the indian economy is a massive bubble based on debt based consumption, once the bubble burst, the indian economy will crash. no country that goes into debt to have gdp growth will ever succeed. greece is 100% proof of that.

and no country that relies on foreigners for all technolgy forever will ever be a superpower. china borrows ideas from foreigners and improves upon them and produces themselves, this happens in every industry. replicate, then innnovate, its how every nation rose up from developing to developed.
india dont even have the capability to replicate, that shows how far behind india is compared to china.

to say india is even remotely close to china is kooky fantasy. india is even being overtaken by china in IT services where india had a lead but that lead is shrinking so fast.

the truth is that india is no more developed militarily than pakistan, both have corrupt political systems that appear all great from the outside but u look closer and the cracks start to appear, just look at how the commonwealth games in india turned out compared with the 2008 beijing olympics.

the gap between china and india is atleast 30 years.

this guy.
^^^hes amazing.
i'm going to take your advice and hit the report button.

 

[teddy]

I wonder what can indian achieve when they cannot get any foreign support. Can they catch up china in technology? no! they can't, even technology aid from all side.
Indian is a lucky guy compare to china, china is under 360 degree blockage of western, everything is count on themself. But indian can easily find someone to help.

It is actually a shame for indian to claim they are better then china.

 

[teddy]

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