Xinjiang put on high alert after 20 deaths

[Shapur]

Freedom for Xingxiang. Love live East Turkistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Freedom for Xingxiang. Love live East Turkistan.

how funny Pakistan gets accused of terrorism time to time when it is your country that harbors Baloch rebels, Uzbek extremists, Tajik extremists, and now Uyghur extremists

i would say round them up and rehabilitate them but i think you already have enough people to rehabilitate


let's fix our own countries first then worry about others' freedom.....





(this is where hindustanis will barge in and claim Pakistan should leave Kashmir and I can assure you Pakistan in no way or form would dare to abandon Kashmiris who are our people)

 

[Shapur]

how funny Pakistan gets accused of terrorism time to time when it is your country that harbors Baloch rebels, Uzbek extremists, Tajik extremists, and now Uyghur extremists

i would say round them up and rehabilitate them but i think you already have enough people to rehabilitate


let's fix our own countries first then worry about others' freedom.....





(this is where hindustanis will barge in and claim Pakistan should leave Kashmir and I can assure you Pakistan in no way or form would dare to abandon Kashmiris who are our people)

lol, I am not even going to dignify that with a proper response.

Last time I checked, uzbeks were in Waziristan, Lashkar e Taiba, Ansar al Islam, Jhangavi. TTP, punjabi Taliban, and dozens of other groups are all based in Pakistan where they are "outlawed". [notice the saracasm for those who can't detect it]

And finally NO Kashmir is the land of free Kashmiris not pakistanis. Pakistan is merely a 60 year old nation. Its basis is on Islam and without Sharia there is no reason for any one to join pakistan. But many people are realizing that Islam is just a ploy used by secular elites and feudal lords of pakistan to deny the people of pakistan their rights. Kashmiris are not stupid to fall for it. Why would Kashmir join Pakistan if they can join India which is many times more powerful and economically stronger?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

lol, I am not even going to dignify that with a proper response.

Last time I checked, uzbeks were in Waziristan, Lashkar e Taiba, Ansar al Islam, Jhangavi. TTP, punjabi Taliban, and dozens of other groups are all based in Pakistan where they are "outlawed". [notice the saracasm for those who can't detect it]

TTP? Lashkar e Islam? Uzbek terrorists? Do you know what we do with those people? If they arent killed by American drones, they are killed by our own bullets.

plentyyyyyyyy of links for you to choose from to corroborate what I have said. Do you know how many times we either caught or killed Uzbek terrorists coming from your side?

And finally NO Kashmir is the land of free Kashmiris not pakistanis. Pakistan is merely a 60 year old nation.

and the people just fell out from Jupiter to Pakistan in 1947? Get a life.

Its basis is on Islam and without Sharia there is no reason for any one to join pakistan.

It is a nation by Muslims, for Muslims and for humanity. Incidentally, a huge number of people in today's Pakistan were already there pre-47. Yes in areas of Sindh and Punjab there were cross-border migrations; but you forget about the rest of Pakistan.

Sharia? Can you even define what is Sharia? I wish you could, maybe fewer of your people would molest little boys and imprison your women and use drugs.

But many people are realizing that Islam is just a ploy used by secular elites and feudal lords of pakistan to deny the people of pakistan their rights.

a lot of Pakistanis feel antipathy towards the feudalistic/elitist people within the political establishment; Islam is not a ''ploy'' being used they have plenty of other ways to engage in electoral politics --- even something as simple as calling for sugar or diesel prices to be reduced.

Why would Kashmir join Pakistan if they can join India which is many times more powerful and economically stronger?

therein lies the striking reality here....india is better off economically and in fact the indians have been trying to buy out the Kashmiris but the Kashmiris still reject india's draconian hold over the disputed lands.


for the sake of uniformity and consistency -- i will refer to Kashmir as disputed (which is what it is and always will be, until issue is resolved).


and since you are an Afghan who probably doesnt believe in legitimacy of Durand line --- well, let me tell you something now.

Your country is "thousands of years old'' and still backwards. What we did in 64 years you couldnt do in 15,000. That's why you people keep coming to Pakistan and then backstabbing us when its most convenient for you.

 

[jbond197]

TTP? Lashkar e Islam? Uzbek terrorists? Do you know what we do with those people? If they arent killed by American drones, they are killed by our own bullets.

plentyyyyyyyy of links for you to choose from to corroborate what I have said. Do you know how many times we either caught or killed Uzbek terrorists coming from your side?

Not true.. had you been ready to kill them by your bullets there was no need of American drone in the first place. A bitter truth you can not run away from is that you are playing double games..

and the people just fell out from Jupiter to Pakistan in 1947? Get a life.

People had been there in place for ages but fact is Kashmir was princely state which you attacked to occupy in 1948. They were free then and you forced the king to turn towards India for help and become a part of it.

therein lies the striking reality here....india is better off economically and in fact the indians have been trying to buy out the Kashmiris but the Kashmiris still reject india's draconian hold over the disputed lands.

Misconception. handful of hate filled and *** trained terrorists and their supporters do not represent Kashmir. J&K is much more peaceful and developing faster than any place in ***.

for the sake of uniformity and consistency -- i will refer to Kashmir as disputed (which is what it is and always will be, until issue is resolved).

You may want to call what you like but for us the matter is resolved. We want the lost land back but we would let it go as now its too late for any action. Nehru messed it up for us otherwise we would be having the whole J&K under our control.

and since you are an Afghan who probably doesnt believe in legitimacy of Durand line --- well, let me tell you something now.

Your country is "thousands of years old'' and still backwards. What we did in 64 years you couldnt do in 15,000. That's why you people keep coming to Pakistan and then backstabbing us when its most convenient for you.

Afghanistan was doing pretty well until the mess started in 70's. Pakistan had a major role in the destruction of Afghanistan so face it you will not get garlands from the people. I am sure as the time progress and peace is in place Afghanistan will a center of advancement. They have unexplored mines and gas reserves and with time all will help them progress again, I have no doubt about it.

 

[Raphael]

Haha, I didn't know the Taliban let their members use computers.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not true.. had you been ready to kill them by your bullets there was no need of American drone in the first place. A bitter truth you can not run away from is that you are playing double games..

instead of posting links that will debunk your statement completely, i merely suggest that you open your beak after following the news more carefully

People had been there in place for ages but fact is Kashmir was princely state which you attacked to occupy in 1948. They were free then and you forced the king to turn towards India for help and become a part of it.

illegitate ''king'' who had no respect amongst the people of Kashmir --- people with whom we share much closer cultural and religious bonds

junagadh was also a princely state that openly opted for Pakistan; what did hindustanis do there?

Misconception. handful of hate filled and *** trained terrorists and their supporters do not represent Kashmir. J&K is much more peaceful and developing faster than any place in ***.

right...and hence the commonly held hatred for the occupation forces (sissies) there

You may want to call what you like but for us the matter is resolved. We want the lost land back but we would let it go as now its too late for any action. Nehru messed it up for us otherwise we would be having the whole J&K under our control.

you dont even have IOK under control -- the only reason you ''have'' it is due to human rights violations and police-state conditions there......the people you call terrorists are just stone-throwing Kashmiri youth.

undeniable fact....and besides, violence has subsided because Kashmiris are now using social media to highlight the injustices against them.

Afghanistan was doing pretty well until the mess started in 80's. Pakistan has a big role in the destruction of Afghanistan so face it you will not get garlands from the people.

first of all, we dont require garlands from nobody. We are too much a proud people to worry about such things.


second of all, Afghanistan was being run by a soviet-backed puppet.....there was a witch-hunt going on against anybody who wanted to practice religion freely; entire villages had soviet gun-ships flying over them and turning them to dust

Afghanistan was indeed doing well in 1960s --well in the sense that there was relatively less violence and political instability. My father talks fondly of days when he could drive across the border and be in Kabul within an hour to go to the theatre --and then make it back in time before dinner. Those were days when we didnt even have theatres or much cinema in Pakistan!


The issues still existed though, simply because Afghans never knew how to be united regardless of ethnicity.

it's obvious why a hindustany would be supportive of the soviet expansion in Afghanistan and then claim all was rosey then.......apart from the fact that we were worried about soviet designs in Pakistan (and given we had some small number of misguided people at the time who bought into that crap) -- we also wanted to negate a pro-indian influence in the region while also getting revenge against the soviets for arming india in 65 and 71 (while our arms suppliers cut us off)




I will be a bit audacious by saying I speak on behalf of ALL Pakistan:



NO APOLOGIES! NO REGRETS!

 

[Shapur]

TTP? Lashkar e Islam? Uzbek terrorists? Do you know what we do with those people? If they arent killed by American drones, they are killed by our own bullets.

plentyyyyyyyy of links for you to choose from to corroborate what I have said. Do you know how many times we either caught or killed Uzbek terrorists coming from your side?

I never deny that uzbeks cross the border at will. The pashtuns control that border, not the FC or Afghan border police. If the tribals feel they need to give the uzbeks refuge then they will. No one can stop them. if the uzbeks take advantage of pashtun's hospitality then the pashtuns will punish them themselves. Just like we saw in waziristan. The uzbeks know they can't mess with the tribals.

and the people just fell out from Jupiter to Pakistan in 1947? Get a life.
It is a nation by Muslims, for Muslims and for humanity. Incidentally, a huge number of people in today's Pakistan were already there pre-47. Yes in areas of Sindh and Punjab there were cross-border migrations; but you forget about the rest of Pakistan.

I never denied that pakistani punjab and sindh were majority muslim before partition.
Kashmiris have the right to self determination. By joining Pakistan they will probably have to learn Urdu, and lose their language and culture in the long term. Believe me nobody wants that. It has happened with pashtuns in Western Afghanistan where they speak farsi after a few generations because its the lingua franca of that region and pashtuns of karachi who can only converse in Urdu. I don't think any Kasmiri nationalist wants that to happen to their kids.

Sharia? Can you even define what is Sharia? I wish you could, maybe fewer of your people would molest little boys and imprison your women and use drugs. a lot of Pakistanis feel antipathy towards the feudalistic/elitist people within the political establishment; Islam is not a ''ploy'' being used they have plenty of other ways to engage in electoral politics --- even something as simple as calling for sugar or diesel prices to be reduced.

Low blow Zolfiqar low blow, I just saw that your from Kurma, which is even sadder coming from fellow pashtuns.

Anywho, I wouldn't generalize pakistan's culture since I know such things exist in all societies and some are highlighted more than others.

Coming back to Sharia. Sharia is the law derived from Qur'an and Sunnah. Since its taught in Pakistan that "Pakistan ka matlab La illaha Illalah". You would know better. The basis of Pakistan is Islam. That's the glue which holds pakistan together.

Islam has been used plenty of times to curb ethnic nationalism both within Afghanistan and Pakistan. I am sure many other countries use it as well where the borders have been drawn by colonialists.

therein lies the striking reality here....india is better off economically and in fact the indians have been trying to buy out the Kashmiris but the Kashmiris still reject india's draconian hold over the disputed lands.
for the sake of uniformity and consistency -- i will refer to Kashmir as disputed (which is what it is and always will be, until issue is resolved).

I don't support India's rule over Kashmir. I want to see a strong and independent Islamic Kashmir. Being a part of India will turn them into another Bollywood wannabees like some in Afghanistan and Pakistan which are not even part of India.

and since you are an Afghan who probably doesnt believe in legitimacy of Durand line --- well, let me tell you something now.

Your country is "thousands of years old'' and still backwards. What we did in 64 years you couldnt do in 15,000. That's why you people keep coming to Pakistan and then backstabbing us when its most convenient for you.

It doesn't matter wheter I accept the ligitimacy of Durand Line or not. Its the government in Kabul which doesn't recognize it.
When you are referring to me as "you" don't forget that we have the same ancestors. By insulting me you are insulting yourself.

Our country is not thousands of years old. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan's borders were drawn by colonialists. As a pashtun I have more in common with people of Swat and Zhob than with Badakhshan and Sheberghan.

Its not my fault I live in these times where to cross Torkham I have to ask a "pakistani" if I can enter pakhtunkhwa or not. Same goes for pashtuns in Pakistan who have to ask a hazara wether they can come to jalalabad or kabul.

stop playing the victim card by saying "backstabbing" us. Both countries have commited crimes against each other and only through sincere dialogue these problems can be resolved.

both countries are the victims of their elites and inshallah both will work together to eliminate them.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I never deny that uzbeks cross the border at will. The pashtuns control that border, not the FC or Afghan border police. If the tribals feel they need to give the uzbeks refuge then they will. No one can stop them. if the uzbeks take advantage of pashtun's hospitality then the pashtuns will punish them themselves. Just like we saw in waziristan. The uzbeks know they can't mess with the tribals.

well we can agree that hospitality is one of the cornerstones in Pashtun culture (even for enemies)

certain groups have exploited and taken advantage of this kindness and it has harmed our country

I never denied that pakistani punjab and sindh were majority muslim before partition.
Kashmiris have the right to self determination. By joining Pakistan they will probably have to learn Urdu, and lose their language and culture in the long term.

absolutely ridiculous

I myself am a Pakhtun, nothing was imposed on me

Believe me nobody wants that. It has happened with pashtuns in Western Afghanistan where they speak farsi after a few generations because its the lingua franca of that region and pashtuns of karachi who can only converse in Urdu.

there are enclaves full of Pashtuns; language spoken is Pashto. When interacting with non-Pashtuns they obviously use Urdu. You have areas like Lyari dominated by Baloch and Sindhis. There is no language issue in Pakistan where people are forced or coerced into speaking languages. Karachi is a giant melting pot (we call it ''Little Pakistan''). It hasnt been perfect, but thats largely due to failed political parties that try to create unrest through their linguistic/provincial politics. But in Karachi, what we see is a natural process, human nature. It's a cosmopolitan city which happens to be where there are more jobs and opportunities than there would be in FATA area.

(believe me! I hope this changes and the govt. actually pays attention to the people of FATA --they are in need of attention)

I don't think any Kasmiri nationalist wants that to happen to their kids.

well the reality is such that there are Kashmiri nationalists who want TOTAL independence. Me personally, im not averse to that idea either. I'd support a referendum.

Low blow Zolfiqar low blow, I just saw that your from Kurma, which is even sadder coming from fellow pashtuns.

fair enough; chuck it

Coming back to Sharia. Sharia is the law derived from Qur'an and Sunnah. Since its taught in Pakistan that "Pakistan ka matlab La illaha Illalah". You would know better. The basis of Pakistan is Islam. That's the glue which holds pakistan together.

That is 100% correct. 64 years later there is a sense of nationhood now, given internal migrations and other phenomenon....though, regrettably you still have buggers who think on provincial or ethnic level only.....example of that is ANP or MQM; 2 parties i dont really care for, to be honest.

Islam has been used plenty of times to curb ethnic nationalism both within Afghanistan and Pakistan. I am sure many other countries use it as well where the borders have been drawn by colonialists.

well it did come in handy during the anti-soviet Jihad...but it was a legitimate struggle to liberate Afghanistan from an aggressive foreign entity. It wasnt a fake objective.

post withdrawal, we all made mistakes -- and that includes the world powers that were involved as well. That goes without saying.

I don't support India's rule over Kashmir. I want to see a strong and independent Islamic Kashmir. Being a part of India will turn them into another Bollywood wannabees like some in Afghanistan and Pakistan which are not even part of India.

let's see what happens, if anything....it's a political issue, requires political solution

It doesn't matter wheter I accept the ligitimacy of Durand Line or not. Its the government in Kabul which doesn't recognize it

.

much to their peril

Our country is not thousands of years old. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan's borders were drawn by colonialists. As a pashtun I have more in common with people of Swat and Zhob than with Badakhshan and Sheberghan.

but at the end of the day, you should consider people of Badakhshan and Sheberghan as MORE your countrymen than the people of Zhob or Sawat.

stop thinking on ethnic lines, it's useless. Though we can DEFINITELY agree that language and sub-cultures do play naturally important roles. That's the main reason why the border between both countries sees so much cross-border movements across the 4 seasons of the year

Its not my fault I live in these times where to cross Torkham I have to ask a "pakistani" if I can enter pakhtunkhwa or not. Same goes for pashtuns in Pakistan who have to ask a hazara wether they can come to jalalabad or kabul.

the border needs to be better enforced

stop playing the victim card by saying "backstabbing" us. Both countries have commited crimes against each other and only through sincere dialogue these problems can be resolved.

you're right

both countries are the victims of their elites and inshallah both will work together to eliminate them.

Inshallah, brother.

 

[Shapur]

Haha, I didn't know the Taliban let their members use computers.

I don't see any members of the Taliban here do you?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I don't see any members of the Taliban here do you?

around the time i joined this forum there were at least 10-15 openly supportive taleban type guys here....since then, they have been removed permanently due to the content of their posts

they come and they go

 

[Shapur]

I myself am a Pakhtun, nothing was imposed on me

I am fully aware of that, nothing can be imposed on pashtuns except through love

there are enclaves full of Pashtuns; language spoken is Pashto. When interacting with non-Pashtuns they obviously use Urdu. You have areas like Lyari dominated by Baloch and Sindhis. There is no language issue in Pakistan where people are forced or coerced into speaking languages. Karachi is a giant melting pot (we call it ''Little Pakistan''). It hasnt been perfect, but thats largely due to failed political parties that try to create unrest through their linguistic/provincial politics. But in Karachi, what we see is a natural process, human nature. It's a cosmopolitan city which happens to be where there are more jobs and opportunities than there would be in FATA area.

I undrestand that, the issue is that when a pukhtoon of peshawar wants to speak to a punjabi and vice versa, they both have to use Urdu. Now skip a few generations and both groups will be fed up with having to speak so many languages and will adopt the language of the majority. In such case both Punjabi and and Pashto will lose out to Urdu in the long run. It happened in Afghanistan. The people of Balkh (Bactria) used to speak Bactrian but now they speak Farsi, similarly many other smaller cultures and languages have been absorbed by bigger languages and their cultures subsequently lost.
I have to do the same thing, I have to ditch pashto to speak to hazaras or uzbeks.

That is 100% correct. 64 years later there is a sense of nationhood now, given internal migrations and other phenomenon....though, regrettably you still have buggers who think on provincial or ethnic level only.....example of that is ANP or MQM; 2 parties i dont really care for, to be honest.

Well thats true, stability and peace definetly helps which has been lacking in Afghanistan because of 30 year war.

I don't think provincial politics are bad as long as they realize that they are different parts of the same body and help each other when needed. The common man indeed thinks only about putting food on the table for his family. Politics, nationalism and such matters are of secondary importance and only those who are well off play these games.
Although I don't support ANP, I congratulate them on some of their achievements such as making pashto compulsory in schools, which is a huge step. But you are right in a sense that they have used ethnic card to attract voters and avoid real issues like the economy and security.

but at the end of the day, you should consider people of Badakhshan and Sheberghan as MORE your countrymen than the people of Zhob or Sawat.

stop thinking on ethnic lines, it's useless. Though we can DEFINITELY agree that language and sub-cultures do play naturally important roles. That's the main reason why the border between both countries sees so much cross-border movements across the 4 seasons of the year

I don't think along ethnic lines. I respect other's culture and expect the same in return. Most of the time knowing the fact that some one is muslim is enough to create a bond between us.

I respect the whatever the choice pashtuns of pakistan make, I wish them the best of luck. eventhough we may never be united as a single country, we should definetly encourage cross border cultural and economic ties.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

those ties already take place......we should need to move from informal to more formal trade.


as for the languages issue -- bi or tri-lingualism is great thing! You should be happy about your ability to converse in different languages. It's a great thing, not a bad thing.


as human beings -- what is our goal? We want our kids to go to school, we want to be able to deliver to our families so we can feel like real men and have dignity (and not be useless beggars). We want safety, food, shelter. We want better goods and services available to public. So in that sense we can all see eye to eye. And i think through better regional cooperation we can one day achieve that.


i'm a staunch anti-colonialist.....we dont need to rely only on foreigners to meddle in our region and then claim they make us advanced or better equipped


all i ask (of Pakistanis and Afghans) is to remain united and not let politics get in the way....we've all made mistakes which we are paying for now, but let us move forward for the sake of our people


i appreciate your mature response and i publicly apologize for earlier coming across as aggressive and unfair

 

[huzihaidao12]

so teach them Chinese, and for the sake of unity why dont Chinese also learn the local dialect spoken by Uyghur community?


through unity and understanding there is nationhood.....language at the end of the day is just a means of communication. It's an important cultural artifact, but still -- it's just a bunch of sounds we make with our mouthes and tongues - for the sake of communicating. Shouldnt become an issue.

In Pakistan there are several spoken languages in different provinces and regions. National language is Urdu and many if not most understand it -- but there are other daily used languages that are not Urdu.


China is such a vast country -- surely within it there are differences in the sinic languages


e.g. Mandarin, Cantonese

From my understanding, Xinjiang has a bilingual education, the Uygur language and Mandarin.

http://www.moe.edu.cn/publicfiles/business/htmlfiles/moe/moe_1485/201107/122228.html

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/ethnic/2009-09/02/content_8647251.htm

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-12/17/content_9191406.htm

 

[Sasquatch]

East Turkmenistan Islamic movement is dead their leaders have been killed off and few policy changes will stabilize Xinjiang only thing they can pull off is a few low level bombings or riots, otherwise shoot a terrorist in head and be done with it.