Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions

[FlowerSummer]

You cannot cut off process from result by your logic.I cannot speak,read english,so i havent "culture " in english

No you misunderstand my words, result oriented doesnt mean there are no process nor the process is being cut out. It just simply means I dont care much about the process, as long as it dont cause me trouble, and as long as I yield the result I wanted.

Take the example of breathing, most people dont give a damn how they breath(process), as long as they dont smell in something bad, and they dont suffocate(result). But for the Chi Kung practisers, the breathing process is actually very important, and they enjoy the process and result of practising Chi Kung. Thats why Chi Kung is a culture, while breathing is a tool, although for someone who cannot differentiate between culture and tool, both appear to be the same.

Listen, before you give me your precious comment about how enjoying the process of breathing is "crazy", "outdated", "worthless", "futile", "inefficient", "wasted of time and effort", "unscientific" etc, I can tell you, culture is not something that can be brand with such "tags". The moment you start branding culture in these tags, the world in your point of view will be full of tools, not culture.

The sad thing is, most of the chinese today are actually living in a world full of tools, in their point of view, of course. Yet what makes thing worse is they actually think they are all cultured and civilized, but in reality they have none. They are not "cultured" at all, because they only treat these things as tools, not culture.

Take my experience as a HanFu restoration member, we are always being attack by people who claim how pigtail is the best, how manchu Qing was the best, how bad HanFu is and how bad Ming China was. But in reality these people do not love pigtail and manchu Qing at all, because they do not treat pigtail as a culture, they did not have the balls to shave a pigtail and go outdoor in the broad day light. Hell, most of these "pigtail supporter" actually hate pigtail and manchu Qing to the core. They only use pigtail as tools to try to eradicate us, to try to destroy one of the most important culture in chinese history, a traditional culture we treat as a culture, not a mere tool, because we do not just wear HanFu solely for snapshot shows, we do not just wear HanFu solely for fashion shows either. Many of us wear HanFu for both indoor activities as well as outdoor activities, both traditional festivals and ceremonies. Some of us even try to integrate HanFu in our everyday life, starting by wearing HanFu to attend non traditional festivals and ceremonies, to wildlife camping, to nature walk, even during travel as a tourist. This is actually how we should treat a culture, how we try to restore a culture once lost.

 

[nalan]

I donot want to argue the stupid quester which dynasty is good.I just point that tool is one of the manifestation of culture .The knowledge,experience to how to use tool,how to work with tool is key " culture".you cannt get the result without the expression process.you cannot fly airplane just like drive car.you cannot creat a classic chinese poem in english.

No you misunderstand my words, result oriented doesnt mean there are no process nor the process is being cut out. It just simply means I dont care much about the process, as long as it dont cause me trouble, and as long as I yield the result I wanted.

Take the example of breathing, most people dont give a damn how they breath(process), as long as they dont smell in something bad, and they dont suffocate(result). But for the Chi Kung practisers, the breathing process is actually very important, and they enjoy the process and result of practising Chi Kung. Thats why Chi Kung is a culture, while breathing is a tool, although for someone who cannot differentiate between culture and tool, both appear to be the same.

Listen, before you give me your precious comment about how enjoying the process of breathing is "crazy", "outdated", "worthless", "futile", "inefficient", "wasted of time and effort", "unscientific" etc, I can tell you, culture is not something that can be brand with such "tags". The moment you start branding culture in these tags, the world in your point of view will be full of tools, not culture.

The sad thing is, most of the chinese today are actually living in a world full of tools, in their point of view, of course. Yet what makes thing worse is they actually think they are all cultured and civilized, but in reality they have none. They are not "cultured" at all, because they only treat these things as tools, not culture.

Take my experience as a HanFu restoration member, we are always being attack by people who claim how pigtail is the best, how manchu Qing was the best, how bad HanFu is and how bad Ming China was. But in reality these people do not love pigtail and manchu Qing at all, because they do not treat pigtail as a culture, they did not have the balls to shave a pigtail and go outdoor in the broad day light. Hell, most of these "pigtail supporter" actually hate pigtail and manchu Qing to the core. They only use pigtail as tools to try to eradicate us, to try to destroy one of the most important culture in chinese history, a traditional culture we treat as a culture, not a mere tool, because we do not just wear HanFu solely for snapshot shows, we do not just wear HanFu solely for fashion shows either. Many of us wear HanFu for both indoor activities as well as outdoor activities, both traditional festivals and ceremonies. Some of us even try to integrate HanFu in our everyday life, starting by wearing HanFu to attend non traditional festivals and ceremonies, to wildlife camping, to nature walk, even during travel as a tourist. This is actually how we should treat a culture, how we try to restore a culture once lost.

 

[FlowerSummer]

I donot want to argue the stupid quester which dynasty is good.I just point that tool is one of the manifestation of culture .The knowledge,experience to how to use tool,how to work with tool is key " culture".you cannt get the result without the expression process.you cannot fly airplane just like drive car.you cannot creat a classic chinese poem in english.

I am not trying to argue history with you... Seriously what i am telling you is how I view culture apart from tools, and how the others view "culture" and mumble jumble it with tools... and why are you only focusing on my HanFu example, do you even understand my point of view for the Chi Kung?

Uhhh... maybe my english is so bad that I cant explain myself properly to you... Lets say... english. For me english is just a tool, but for somebody else living somewhere on earth, english is a culture. For me as long as I can communicate with others using english, I am fine with it. But for those who view english as his/her culture, he/she will try to improve his/her english mastery over and over again, despite the fact that his/her english is already much better than me.

Wait let me guess your point... you are trying to say tools are the result, the product of a culture, while culture the the process of learning and mastery of a tool, am I right?

 

[nalan]

Wait let me guess your point... you are trying to say tools are the result, the product of a culture, while culture the the process of learning and mastery of a tool, am I right?

this is a simple example.and your view?
my english is a joke,and i am a clown here.my expression process has some problems.using tool and work with tool is inheritance relations.you cannot cut off the culture when you use it as a tool.about pigtail , you have no chioce,and you cannot take the example of breathing,it creat nothing about culture because its not a tool for social production

 

[Snomannen]

Sorry but "Hanfu" is no doubt a outdated, worthless clothing. As I have mentioned above it is the most outdated, ancient clothing style in human history (covered by a large piece of cloth and make a "y" in the front). I don't see any good reason to worship such useless, so-called "tradition" nowadays.

Moreover, I don't see anyone who dislike Hanfu claim that they like "pigtail" nor they like to praise a dead dynasty. Therefore it is never a matter of "if they dare to" but "they consider such action of bringing 'rubbish' back to modern reality is crazy".

Also I consider the so-called "Hanfu movement" is nothing but a joke in a part of Chinese history which is processing at this moment:

Firstly those who support such movement also claim that how Qing dynasty "eliminated" Hanfu and "Han Chinese hair style" by force. However, the fact is that both Han's and Manchurian hairstyle and clothing were exist during the period of Qing. The Qing government indeed made a unacceptable action of forcing Han people to follow Manchurian tradition in the beginning, but after the violence they did lightened the policy and let people live as they were willing to (just like how the government failed to forbidden the Han people's tradition of "small feet"). As I have mentioned, there are records about how people living with both styles in the same time in Qing Dynasty. The consequence was what the people have chose themselves.

Secondly people of the "Hanfu movement" even try to bring back those Hanfu styles which had even been discarded by Tang, Song and Ming. In other word, even in those dynasties, some of the Hanfu styles are considered as out-dated and intangible -yet people nowadays still attempt to bring back those"rubbish".

Moreover, many people always take Hanfu as an advantage to spread their rascit to minorities (not all of them, but the number is huge). They are nothing but indirectly working as volunteers counting money for anti-China force.

Thirdly as I have mentioned many times, if a clothing style is considered as the main/ "one of the most important parts" of a culture, then such culture is so inferior and have no reason to feel badly for its disappearance. (the beautiful Chinese culture is more higher and more than "clothing").

I don't mean to cause a fight, but seriously I just don't think such action should have existed. If anything has to be restored, Hanfu should not be on the top list. It is just a cloth, not a God, don't spend too much emotion on it and label it as a Savior of Chinese culture. If you really want Chinese culture to shine, then you should upgrade it, not bring back the old version. Just remember, we are all living under western culture/ idea/ "tool", legal system, education system, technology, Geo, Physics, chemistry and even your computer and internet. Can a piece of cloth really have the "qualifications" to content with them.

Besides, I don't see people around the world attempt to "restore" their culture by putting so much emotion on a cloth, just like I never see any Indian claim that their "true" traditional clothing was before the Mughal Empire.

 

[FlowerSummer]

this is a simple example.and your view?
my english is a joke,and i am a clown here.my expression process has some problems.using tool and work with tool is inheritance relations.you cannot cut off the culture when you use it as a tool.about pigtail , you have no chioce,and you cannot take the example of breathing,it creat nothing about culture because its not a tool for social production

Yes your view is quite common back in mainland, at least most of my friends have back in high schools have this kind of view, guess its because of our textbooks play a big part of it.

Actually your point is not completely wrong, its just that I feel something crucial missing from it, and I disagree with your view that relate culture to social production. Also do you think Chi Kung is not a culture?

I give you two examples and see how you think of them.
First we have chinese new year. It is one of our traditional festival, so no doubt it is a culture right? But if we go on by your logic of tools are manifestation of a culture, then do you think Ang Pao, the red envelope we recieved from our elders during the chinese new year, is just a tool too? Can red envelope being use for social production?
Second we take a look at car. It is a tool, and I dont think anyone will disagree with this. But if the culture is the knowledge of how to use a tool, can we say driving is a culture?

Now I give you my opinion. Chinese new year is a culture, but the Ang Pao is not a mere tool. It is a cultural symbol, and it is part of the chinese new year culture. The same goes for Nian Gao, or fireworks, or even lion dance and dragon dance. These are all part of the culture of chinese new year, and they serve as a cultural symbol. When we see these cultural symbols, we will automatically have the word "chinese new year" pop out in our mind.

In the case of driving a car, I regard it as a skill, not a culture. I only need skill to operate a tool, not culture. Hey, a factory worker certainly dont need "culture" to use a particular machinery right? And in case you have not realise it, factory machinery are a tool for social production. So how do you think about my explaination?

PS. There is some people who regard driving as a culture, like those guys in Initial D. They oftenly race with each others in night time and they always improving their driving speed, learning new tricks and stuffs. Obviously for them, driving is not only just a skill, but a culture, part of their night time racing culture, and the cars are not just mere tools, but their cultural symbols. Heck some of them can even feel they can become one with the car whendriving. If you ever feel you start to have these feelings when using a tool, you may have started to regard it as more than a tool.

About the pigtail, yes we have no choice back then, back when we were forced to shave pigtail, just like we have no choice back when nanking massacre and comfort women happening in WWll. But we have to remember these facts happened in our history, and dont forget about it, because if one forgot the history, mistakes will repeat itself in the future.

 

[FlowerSummer]

Sorry but our view on culture is different, so different that you are just like an atheist trying to tell a muslim that how "islam" is outdated and worthless. I think we should agree to disagree here.

For your claim of "outdated", there are many "outdated" culture in china now, not just Hanfu, just take a look at-
chopsticks--one of the oldest dining tool created by humanity
bbq--one of the oldest cooking method since humans know how to use fire
maternal society--a social structure that exist before paternal socienty like today replace it
HanZi--ideogram characters are one of the oldest form of writting system humanity ever produce, and its very unique
ancestor worship--one of the oldest form of faith since human civilization started

See we actually have many "outdated" cultures in China, but we dont despise them, so why hate HanFu? Oh and please call it ancient rather than "outdated" if you really want to tag culture, please respect the culture ok?

We dont claim HanFu is the highest or even the only culture Han has, we only said "RESTORE HUAXIA, CLOTHING COME FIRST" (华夏复兴，衣冠先&#34892 (translation provided please dont delete my post mod ). We always tell our new members to try to learn more about Han traditional culture other than HanFu, and most of my fellows back in my old WeiQi club, now a HanFu WeiQi club, are hardcore traditional HanZi and caligraphy supporter, and I always tell them to support HanYu ZhuYin and WenYanWen as well. I personally also started to learn confucianism 3 years after I begin HanFu restoration movement.

Oh I forgot to tell you last time, HanFu did contain different sleeve styles such as tight sleeves, loose sleeves, short sleeves and long sleeves. Most our current "Daily life use" HanFu are tight sleeves, so you dont need to curse Zhou anymore because Shang clothing style are also being revived alongside with HanFu, huuray!

We dont worship HanFu, but we do respect and love HanFu just as we respect and love our ancestors. Personally everytime I see a HanFu, I think about my ancestors. For us HanFu is definitely more than a cloth. If you think HanFu is not on the top list restoration then what you should do is not to get in our way, but instead start to do something for those traditional cultures on your top list. Infighting between traditional culture restorer are not neccessary.

HanFu doesnt need to compete with all western cultures, it just need help China to resist the cultural invasion of western clothing styles like XiZhuang and bikini. The other western culture should be compete with our respective Han traditional cultures, like HanZi compete with english. We only use HanFu to rally all Han traditional culture supporters to start revive Han traditional culture, because clothes is the easiest and fastest way to catch a person's attention and the first medium we gives the others a perception.

Just because people around the world dont do something, doesnt mean we cant do that "something" right? Hope you can understand our view and please dont get in our way ok?

 

[Snomannen]

There is something you don't understand or maybe I didn't make it clear. I never dislike nor hate the subject -"Hanfu", but the people -some of the "Hanfu fans". I personally love traditional Chinese buildings, china and other "outdated" Chinese culture. They are "outdated", but I would never consider them as "worthless" things, but "inefficient" and "intangible". Also (ancient) acts, for me, are no doubt "inefficient" and "intangible" and they should be kept and stored in museum and being mentioned in order to put them into a "position" and "environment" that show their "worth".

As for your samples. Almost every Chinese and other East Asians use such cutie thing (including me of course). It is useful and efficient, also everywhere. Therefore, even though it is "outdated", it is still considered as a "modern", "worthy" tool for eating your dinner. Hanzi? How could Chinese people live without Hanzi. How about the beautiful poems, the ancient books, the knowledge. We CAN'T live without old but modern, efficient, valuable Hanzi , but we CAN for sure live without Hanfu which is valuable in the museum and related books, but "worthless" on the street.

Also as I have mentioned before I will never spend emotion to a 'dead dynasty' nor cursing it. Dressing like a Zhou or Shang nowadays are both considered as "crazy" to me.

Talking about respect, I do have a lot respect to cultural master like calligrapher. Why, because they never claim the nonsense of how calligraphy has the great, unbelievable power to save Chinese culture and forcing/ asking/ telling/ convincing people to write with a writing brush instead of using a useful pen. The most important thing is, they don't volunteer to count money for anti-China force nor support their theories. I know that some "Hanfu fans" do practice Chinese culture such as calligraphy, musical instruments and painting. I never consider such action is bad, in fact, I do support people who really have such 'healthy' hobby. Life is good isn't it. However, the main problem is, are (most of) you people really simply act like:
"I love Hanfu... I think such clothing style is great and beautiful... Also I believe that encourage people to wear Hanfu is a good idea to have them to think about restoring our culture blah..."
"okay if you think so bye."
but in the reality (many of) you people are really like:
"China is already dead blah blah the true China is dead blah blah evil Yuan and Qing are not China all hail Hanfu Han people are the most peaceful people minorities especially Manchurian and Mongolian are evil and stupid blah blah Ming is the best dynasty and best country in the world my parents are stupid as well they are not willing to spend their money from their hard work to buy me a low quality yet super experience Hanfy the are so ignorance and selfish blah blah... "
"Dafuq?"

(Many of) you kind are supporting the theory of "Yuan & Qing are not China" which was early from imperial Japanese who attempt to cause conflict between Chinese people. Standing against the basic fact that China and its history are not only belongs to Han people but the whole Chinese ethnics group (non-natives such as Russian and Korean are exception), supporting Han chauvinism (only Han = China), overstating minorities' crime in the history but ignore the crimes that Han people did to minorities. Giving away our own history to our neighbor such as Outer Mongolian.
I can still remember how I was explaining why Tibetan is Chinese and the true about their treatment in Tibet and the so-called independence movement of "Manchukuo" and "south Mongolia" nowadays are nothing but jokes, then suddenly a guy who called himself a "imperial Han" jumped up and yelled that Yuan and Qing are not China and Mongolian and Manchrian "are slaves that ruled by Chinese". That was not even the only time I have met such trouble maker. Even in this forum I have seen some of that kind as well. Now, who are really those getting on other people's way.

Moreover, there are reasons of people don't do that "sth", meaninglessness/silliness is one of them

 

[nalan]

I just said tool is one of the manifestation of culture .Your understanding of culture is narrow. Ang Pao is a tool(symbol),giving Ang Pao is a culture.same to Chi Kung, Nian Gao.when you cannot use some skill,you will be criticized no culture in chinese.each factory has his own culture.the diathesis of factory workers will affect its culture.

Yes your view is quite common back in mainland, at least most of my friends have back in high schools have this kind of view, guess its because of our textbooks play a big part of it.

Actually your point is not completely wrong, its just that I feel something crucial missing from it, and I disagree with your view that relate culture to social production. Also do you think Chi Kung is not a culture?

I give you two examples and see how you think of them.
First we have chinese new year. It is one of our traditional festival, so no doubt it is a culture right? But if we go on by your logic of tools are manifestation of a culture, then do you think Ang Pao, the red envelope we recieved from our elders during the chinese new year, is just a tool too? Can red envelope being use for social production?
Second we take a look at car. It is a tool, and I dont think anyone will disagree with this. But if the culture is the knowledge of how to use a tool, can we say driving is a culture?

Now I give you my opinion. Chinese new year is a culture, but the Ang Pao is not a mere tool. It is a cultural symbol, and it is part of the chinese new year culture. The same goes for Nian Gao, or fireworks, or even lion dance and dragon dance. These are all part of the culture of chinese new year, and they serve as a cultural symbol. When we see these cultural symbols, we will automatically have the word "chinese new year" pop out in our mind.

In the case of driving a car, I regard it as a skill, not a culture. I only need skill to operate a tool, not culture. Hey, a factory worker certainly dont need "culture" to use a particular machinery right? And in case you have not realise it, factory machinery are a tool for social production. So how do you think about my explaination?

PS. There is some people who regard driving as a culture, like those guys in Initial D. They oftenly race with each others in night time and they always improving their driving speed, learning new tricks and stuffs. Obviously for them, driving is not only just a skill, but a culture, part of their night time racing culture, and the cars are not just mere tools, but their cultural symbols. Heck some of them can even feel they can become one with the car whendriving. If you ever feel you start to have these feelings when using a tool, you may have started to regard it as more than a tool.

About the pigtail, yes we have no choice back then, back when we were forced to shave pigtail, just like we have no choice back when nanking massacre and comfort women happening in WWll. But we have to remember these facts happened in our history, and dont forget about it, because if one forgot the history, mistakes will repeat itself in the future.

 

[FlowerSummer]

I just said tool is one of the manifestation of culture .Your understanding of culture is narrow. Ang Pao is a tool(symbol),giving Ang Pao is a culture.same to Chi Kung, Nian Gao.when you cannot use some skill,you will be criticized no culture in chinese.each factory has his own culture.the diathesis of factory workers will affect its culture.

Yep my perception on culture is not broad, because I do not just consider someone is "cultured" just because he/she learn some skills. I always laugh when I heard how mainland chinese brand someone "no culture" just because they do not have a certain knowledge, as if being highly educated = highly cultured, as if acquiring lots of certificate will make somebody "cultured".

For me, tools are the manifestation of knowledge, not culture. You can invent a tool if you have a certain knowledge, and you can use a tool well if you have the skill to use it. But that does not mean you are automatically cultured in something just because you can use a tool. Anyone in the earth can give out ang pao or eat nian gao, but that does not mean he/she is celebrating chinese new year, nor he/she is cultured in chinese traditional culture.

So now each factory has their own "machinery culture" hmm? And those newbie who just got hired are not cultured because they do not know how to operate these machinery huh? I never know that. I always thought that each factory only has their own factory working culture, just like each office has their own office working culture, but that does not mean just because someone cant use some machinery in a factory or you cant use computer in an office, will make you not "cultured" in machinery or factory or computer or office, it will just simply mean that you are not skillful enough, and probably need more training.

Satelites is a tool, and they are very crucial in social production. I wonder what kind of culture manifested satelites... and does that mean I am "cultured" in whatever 'culture" that manifested satelites, just because I can use GPS very well?

 

[FlowerSummer]

I tell you what, I never dislike nor hate the subject -"Islam", but the people -some of the "muslim terrorists and separarists". Does that mean I can be a jerk and jumping up and down like a clown just because I met somebody who just love Islam or is a muslim? Does that mean I can act like a boss and a sage, telling people that love Islam or is a muslim, how loving and practising Islam is equal to counting money for anti china force and supporting their theory, just because a bunch of muslim chinese is happened to be a terrorists or separarist?

How could Chinese people live without HanZi? Try tell this to those self proclaim "enlightened chinese communist" that wanted to latinized HanZi so badly, and they will give you 1000 reasons why HanYu alphabets are much much much more "advance", "efficient", "scientific", "useful", "beautiful" blah blah blah. These people are even more dangerous than any separarist or terrorist, because they wanted to uproot chinese civilization from her core, chinese traditional arts and culture, directly, now thats how you call true chinese enemies.

How strange, my high school teacher always comment how only caligraphy, traditional HanZi, WenYanWen and confucianism can only save chinese traditional culture and subsequently, China. I guess its just how each person value a traditional culture is different. We never say only HanFu can save chinese traditional culture, we only said HanFu is the first step for Han traditional culture revival.

Chinese culture does started to decline ever since mongol yuan, but not dead of course. This is actually why Ming China is only sub par in my ranking list, because the power of chinese cultural assimilation during Ming China is very weak. Imperial Han? You mean Huang Han right? I myself is a Huang Han, did I appear to be the same as them? There is one very common thing in internet nowadays, that is called false flagger, as a PDF member you should know this right?

Mongolians and manchurians are slaves that ruled by Chinese? What the heck are they talking about? We Chinese are actually the "slaves" back in the period of mongol yuan and manchu qing, while the mongols and manchus are the bigshots royals and nobles. Even when in today the so call republic era, Han chinese are still 2nd class citizens, lacking many special previleges that minorities enjoy but Han Chinese doesnt have, in the areas like education and merit system, law and punishement system, local governing system, job employment policy, social welfare policy and one child policy. These idiots must be hallucinating when they uttering these rubbish words.

There is no such thing as meaningless action, because it was us humans that are giving meaning to our actions.

Oh I forgot to mention, you are from macao right? I hope you guys can protect and preserve traditional HanZi with everything you guys can do, alongside with hong kong and ROC. Right now trditional HanZi are barely living in mainland, breathing its last breath, all thanks to you know who. I dont know how long we mainlanders can still preserve and protect this beautiful culture of ours, because now website like BaiDu that love sucking up with you know who are purposely forbidding the use of traditional HanZi. All traditional HanZi we type in past and present are all being automatically convert to simplified HanZi, as if they wanted to eradicate the existence of traditional HanZi, and I fear that traditional HanZi will lost in the near future, just like how once HanFu was used to.

 

[Snomannen]

Exactly what I was trying to say, for I never dislike "Islam" nor "Hanfu" but those extremists who can really bring trouble in our lives. You have to defend your own property and safety by criticizing those extremists "like a boss". If a Muslim simply practice what he believes and a Hanfu fans simply like the ancient clothing, then nobody would even bother. But if a Muslim trying to bomb someone, insulting other religions or a Hanfu fans (Imperial Han) spreading rumors and racists, then we have no choice but fight them back.

I know what they were up to, luckily they have found the chaos they were about to cause and stop promoting the second simplified characters. If they have really latinized Hanzi, we would have all doomed. However, traditional and Simplified Chinese characters are both Hanzi after all.
Anyway, the CCP was/is a great power against separatist and terrorist, at least much better than the KMT. They have destoryed many Chinese tradition, but at least they have united most of the Chinese territories.

Your teacher is a typical person who likes to look backward instead of "creating the future". To save a culture or make a culture shine in this dynasty doesn't mean that "digging up" or practicing the "old way" is the ONLY way. Anyway as you have said that everyone value their traditional culture in different ways. I don't want to discuss about if the idea of "clothing comes first" is a good idea or not, besides it is not even the main point of the whole topic.

I have no idea why people always claim that Chinese culture was declined during the two dynasties. In fact, during the Yuan Dynasty, there was a high achievement in astronomy, mathematics, navigation and other regions of knowledge. As for Qing Dynasty, as I have mentioned above, they even worked hard to search and restore our ancient books ad knowledge. The Emperors even studied western knowledge and encourage their chancellors to do the same as they do, yet seldom do they listen to their emperors due to the proud of their own culture.
I have seen many of these Huang Hans in other Chinese forums such as Tianya and Baisu Tieba, I really don't think they are (all) flaggers, eventhough I wish they were which means we don't really have such creatures in our country.

He said "are", not "were".
Once again I have no idea why people always emphasize that Han people* were slaves during that 2 period. The fact is, we people, no matter what ethnics we were nor which dynasties we were living, are ALL slaves to the rulers. There was no such thing of Human Rights back in those days. We were all ruled by a royal family. Mongolian and Manchurian were the winners of the wars, there is no doubt and reasonable that their number in the ruling class are huge. Moreover, if you did some research, you would found that Han people were still have their power in the government which was not even worse than other ethnics.
Also, "protecting minorities" is a common value that was supported by the UN. The action of providing minorities "benefits" is actually normal and reasonable. I don't see any serious problem within this issue. Besides "2nd class" Han people have already owned the best land in China (many of those land were taken by war in the history from minorities), while many ministries have to live in places with lack of resources and dangerous environment. As for the 1-Child-Policy, many minorities such as Manchurian has to follow this policy as well. Also asking those minorities have only few of population is not really a good idea (the policy itself is not a best idea as well anyways, but it is a solution to a big mistake caused by the CCP).


*Also you have made a serious mistake, Manchurian and Mongolian, like Han, were/are Chinese. As I have mentioned that Han people doesn't represent the whole Chinese history but the Chinese ethnics group does.


Even through I said that traditional and simplified Hanzi are both Hanzi, but personally I do prefer the traditional one since it is more logical and more beautiful than the "disable" one. Speaking of my homeland, well, due to the big influence from the Mainland, the "status" of simplified Chinese is being treated better and better. Simplified Chinese can be seen in everywhere in these years, and the main problem is, people sometimes even ignore the traditional section which is supposed to be next to the simplified one. Sometimes I do worry about Macau will follow what Malaysia and Singapore did -replacing traditional Chinese with the simplified one.
Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau and some of the regions with lots of overseas Chinese such as Vancouver are the only places that are still using traditional Chinese.

 

[Wholegrain]

I tell you what, I never dislike nor hate the subject -"Islam", but the people -some of the "muslim terrorists and separarists". Does that mean I can be a jerk and jumping up and down like a clown just because I met somebody who just love Islam or is a muslim? Does that mean I can act like a boss and a sage, telling people that love Islam or is a muslim, how loving and practising Islam is equal to counting money for anti china force and supporting their theory, just because a bunch of muslim chinese is happened to be a terrorists or separarist?

How could Chinese people live without HanZi? Try tell this to those self proclaim "enlightened chinese communist" that wanted to latinized HanZi so badly, and they will give you 1000 reasons why HanYu alphabets are much much much more "advance", "efficient", "scientific", "useful", "beautiful" blah blah blah. These people are even more dangerous than any separarist or terrorist, because they wanted to uproot chinese civilization from her core, chinese traditional arts and culture, directly, now thats how you call true chinese enemies.

How strange, my high school teacher always comment how only caligraphy, traditional HanZi, WenYanWen and confucianism can only save chinese traditional culture and subsequently, China. I guess its just how each person value a traditional culture is different. We never say only HanFu can save chinese traditional culture, we only said HanFu is the first step for Han traditional culture revival.

Chinese culture does started to decline ever since mongol yuan, but not dead of course. This is actually why Ming China is only sub par in my ranking list, because the power of chinese cultural assimilation during Ming China is very weak. Imperial Han? You mean Huang Han right? I myself is a Huang Han, did I appear to be the same as them? There is one very common thing in internet nowadays, that is called false flagger, as a PDF member you should know this right?

Mongolians and manchurians are slaves that ruled by Chinese? What the heck are they talking about? We Chinese are actually the "slaves" back in the period of mongol yuan and manchu qing, while the mongols and manchus are the bigshots royals and nobles. Even when in today the so call republic era, Han chinese are still 2nd class citizens, lacking many special previleges that minorities enjoy but Han Chinese doesnt have, in the areas like education and merit system, law and punishement system, local governing system, job employment policy, social welfare policy and one child policy. These idiots must be hallucinating when they uttering these rubbish words.

There is no such thing as meaningless action, because it was us humans that are giving meaning to our actions.

Oh I forgot to mention, you are from macao right? I hope you guys can protect and preserve traditional HanZi with everything you guys can do, alongside with hong kong and ROC. Right now trditional HanZi are barely living in mainland, breathing its last breath, all thanks to you know who. I dont know how long we mainlanders can still preserve and protect this beautiful culture of ours, because now website like BaiDu that love sucking up with you know who are purposely forbidding the use of traditional HanZi. All traditional HanZi we type in past and present are all being automatically convert to simplified HanZi, as if they wanted to eradicate the existence of traditional HanZi, and I fear that traditional HanZi will lost in the near future, just like how once HanFu was used to.

Wrong. Manchu Bannermen were forced by the Qing Emperor to call themselves slaves (nucai) to the Emperor, while Han officials called themselves "your minister". The Qing Emperor regarded all Manchu bannermen as his personal slaves.

Biographies of Immortals - Legends of China - Special Edition - Herbert Allen Giles, Frederic H. Balfour, Lionel Giles - Google Books

China and the Manchus - Herbert A. Giles - Google Books

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

A Translucent Mirror: History and Identity in Qing Imperial Ideology - Pamela Kyle Crossley - Google Books

A Handbook of the Chinese Language: Parts I and II, Grammar and Chrestomathy ... - James Summers - Google Books

中国古代官名辞典 - Charles O. Hucker - Google Books

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

The Immobile Empire - Alain Peyrefitte - Google Books

Orphan Warriors: Three Manchu Generations and the End of the Qing World - Pamela Kyle Crossley - Google Books

Mourning in Late Imperial China: Filial Piety and the State - Norman Kutcher - Google Books

The Manchu bannermen found it so degrading they wanted to change the system and allow themselves to all themselves "your minister".

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

 

[nalan]

You misunderstand what I mean."no culture" means you have not knowledge to do something.No battery and battery run out of power is same in chinese.i dont say tool is cultured,but using with experience,give it the anima.driving car and giving ang pao make nosense for me.but it doesnt interfere with you doing it.give ang pao eat niaogao dont depend on your view.depend on weather its "active"and accepting by most people.obviously its chinese cultured.about factory,there is inheritance relations just as giving ang bao for celebrating chinese new year.Satelites is a tool just as car.

Yep my perception on culture is not broad, because I do not just consider someone is "cultured" just because he/she learn some skills. I always laugh when I heard how mainland chinese brand someone "no culture" just because they do not have a certain knowledge, as if being highly educated = highly cultured, as if acquiring lots of certificate will make somebody "cultured".

For me, tools are the manifestation of knowledge, not culture. You can invent a tool if you have a certain knowledge, and you can use a tool well if you have the skill to use it. But that does not mean you are automatically cultured in something just because you can use a tool. Anyone in the earth can give out ang pao or eat nian gao, but that does not mean he/she is celebrating chinese new year, nor he/she is cultured in chinese traditional culture.

So now each factory has their own "machinery culture" hmm? And those newbie who just got hired are not cultured because they do not know how to operate these machinery huh? I never know that. I always thought that each factory only has their own factory working culture, just like each office has their own office working culture, but that does not mean just because someone cant use some machinery in a factory or you cant use computer in an office, will make you not "cultured" in machinery or factory or computer or office, it will just simply mean that you are not skillful enough, and probably need more training.

Satelites is a tool, and they are very crucial in social production. I wonder what kind of culture manifested satelites... and does that mean I am "cultured" in whatever 'culture" that manifested satelites, just because I can use GPS very well?

 

[nalan]

For me, tools are the manifestation of knowledge, not culture

my mistake.for me,there are not many difference between tools and knowledge.of cause,i am not god,i cannot say i am right.it is just my understanding.i dont know much about HANFU,so what is it?may i say its heritage of chinese culture?should we need it to affect our modern lives?