WSJ How China's Growing Nationalism Changes Views of the West

[Bussard Ramjet]

No, your figures show Chinese movies are not at the very top or dominating of foreign blockbuster box office scenes that are still mainly controlled by U.S. media circles far beyond pure film production. Which no one claimed and you just keep strawmanning with because you have no figures that back up your own claims about the Indian movie industry when called out on your fantasy "facts".

Meanwhile the same figures show the same for Indian movies.
But somehow that doesnt make Indian movies unpopular by the same flawed logic you try to use deny Chinese movie popularity. We all know why.

I only produced figures for the East Asian markets.

The first task as I said for a film industry, indeed any industry, is to satisfy local demand.

In India's highest grossing movies, there are only 4 US movies in the top 50.

In China's box market, 21 are foreign movies in the top 50.

This is despite the fact that China is a heavily censored, restricted market, with all kinds of restrictions on foreign movies.

Similarly, look at China-India trade in movies.

No Chinese movie is even in the top 50 in India, while Dangal is in top 50 in China at number 41.

This is perhaps the very few areas where India has a surplus in trade. Hence, a competitive advantage.

Chinese contemporary culture would have perform much better if there's less censorship. I've seen all kinds of silly reasons why some Chinese dramas/movies are restricted. Period dramas, topics of superstitions, and heck even portraying school bullying gets you a restriction. What a waste of sweat and blood from the production crew.

A very promising movie, which was produced with much fanfare about the Shanghai battle between KMT and Japanese was restricted for the sole reason that it glorified the KMT!!!!

It could have been the Chinese Dunkirk! But no, even fighting a patriotic battle for China can fall foul of censors!

 

[beijingwalker]

I only produced figures for the East Asian markets.

The first task as I said for a film industry, indeed any industry, is to satisfy local demand.

In India's highest grossing movies, there are only 4 US movies in the top 50.

In China's box market, 21 are foreign movies in the top 50.

This is despite the fact that China is a heavily censored, restricted market, with all kinds of restrictions on foreign movies.

Similarly, look at China-India trade in movies.

No Chinese movie is even in the top 50 in India, while Dangal is in top 50 in China at number 41.

This is perhaps the very few areas where India has a surplus in trade. Hence, a competitive advantage.

What you claim is that Indian movies have global influence which I never claimed it for the Chinese movies, Chinese movies are only popular in China, even they still make more money than your Indian movies they still do not have global impact of any kind, and Indian movies are in the same league, it's not something that you can show off with.

 

[Beast]

The issue is that you are still extremely behind the western countries, be it in terms of GDP per capita, science and technology, ability to attract and retain talent, soft power etc.

The problem now is that, you have stopped learning from the west AT ALL.

The Deng Xiaoping philosophy that basically led to China's rise from 1980 to 2010 was dismantled and altered by Xi Jinping.



Corruption is common in all developing countries, and is usually not a road block to a nation's progress.

China itself was extremely corrupt during its developing times. So were all major developing economies (with the possible exception of Singapore)



Now however it has gone dangerously to the opposite end, with the attitude that we need to learn nothing from the west, specially on the political/ideological/philosophical front.

In fact, according to the current rulers of China, they are reverting back to Mao's era in many ways.

There has been a reemergence of the cult of personality.

Sourgraped...

Learn from this man first.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

What you claim is that Indian movies have global influence which I never claimed it for the Chinese movies, Chinese movies are only popular in China, even they still make more money than your Indian movies they still do not have global impact of any kind, and Indian movies are in the same league, it's not something that you can show off with.

Read my original post. I said that India has a competitive advantage in movies. Competitive advantage is a well defined term in economics.

And as far as impact is concerned, Indian movies have the most impact when it comes to the domestic market. While foreign movies have as much impact as Chinese movies in China, despite the fact that they are heavily restricted and people resort to watching them illegallly.

In fact, for a major Chinese city like Hong Kong, foreign movies basically wipe out Chinese movies from the box office.

Sourgraped...

Learn from this man first.

How is it sourgraped?

Instead of name calling, you should actually argue with the facts, arguments, and statements, and try to indulge in a reasoned debate.

 

[Beast]

Ummm.. You don't seem to know anything about the fields that you just listed.

You are not even close to the US when it comes to AI.

Quantum Communication, you are neck to neck with Europe and US.

Transportation? Does that include cars? Because let's just say that Chinese cars don't have a particularly good reputation, and most high tech components of cars are anyways imported from abroad.

I thought you must be happy that I was saying that there are systemic reasons why India has not performed not as well as China in the last few decades.

But if China keeps to its current policies under Xi Jinping, I actually see India and other countries catching up or coming close to China.

PS- Unlike Chinese vanity, I don't think India dominates in any field. India has been able to get competitive advantages though in fields like generic medicines, movies/tv-shows etc.

When comes to 5G, US is not even close.
In terms of infrastructure and civil engineering. China leaves US in dust.

When comes to car, being selective in your argument and cherry pick on some low end car doesn't make you right when plenty of high end one which you failed to include.

How is it sourgraped?

Instead of name calling, you should actually argue with the facts, arguments, and statements, and try to indulge in a reasoned debate.

I guess you didn't even bother to watch the video. All my points is mention by reng zhengfei ,Huawei founder.

I have prove many times of your biased sourgraped comment. How is a personal attack when I can easily prove what I describe you with facts and evidence? Still remember u brag about China afraid of US sanction and not going to import Iran oil? You want me to link your post and thread to humiliate you further?

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

When comes to 5G, US is not even close.
In terms of infrastructure and civil engineering. China leaves US in dust.

When comes to car, being selective in your argument and cherry pick on some low end car doesn't make you right when plenty of high end one which you failed to include.

Okay let's come to 5G.

You seem to think that only telecom (and radio equipment) is the layer that matters in 5G. Yes, US doesn't have a vendor in the category of Nokia, Ericsson, or ZTE. But US is actually very active in many other domains of networking. Qualcomm is very active in many domains, and actually has a fair share of essential 5G patents. There are many other companies that produce all kinds of stuff and components.

Also, looking at the US alone is largely a waste because US has an alliance system, where even military vendors are shared.

As for cars, Chinese domestic market itself is dominated, still, by foreign companies and their ventures. China doesn't actually have a competitive car brand of the likes of Volkswagen, or Honda.

Of course there are bright spots in China's domestic car industry. Some state owned, and Geely.

But Chinese car industry as a whole hasn't even surpassed Korea yet, in terms of quality, reliability, and recognition, leave alone giants like Japan, Germany.

In premium segment the things are even different. China has no domestic home-grown competitor to companies like BMW, Audi etc.

Of course things may change, but we are stating things as they are, not as they may or will be.

 

[beijingwalker]

Read my original post. I said that India has a competitive advantage in movies. Competitive advantage is a well defined term in economics.

No, you don't, and you also claim you have an advantage in medicine making which is also untrue. Movie and TV making industry India and China are in the same league, no one has an advantage at all.

Okay let's come to 5G.

You seem to think that only telecom (and radio equipment) is the layer that matters in 5G. Yes, US doesn't have a vendor in the category of Nokia, Ericsson, or ZTE. But US is actually very active in many other domains of networking. Qualcomm is very active in many domains, and actually has a fair share of essential 5G patents. There are many other companies that produce all kinds of stuff and components.

Also, looking at the US alone is largely a waste because US has an alliance system, where even military vendors are shared.

As for cars, Chinese domestic market itself is dominated, still, by foreign companies and their ventures. China doesn't actually have a competitive car brand of the likes of Volkswagen, or Honda.

Of course there are bright spots in China's domestic car industry. Some state owned, and Geely.

But Chinese car industry as a whole hasn't even surpassed Korea yet, in terms of quality, reliability, and recognition, leave alone giants like Japan, Germany.

In premium segment the things are even different. China has no domestic home-grown competitor to companies like BMW, Audi etc.

Of course things may change, but we are stating things as they are, not as they may or will be.

China in pole position for 5G era with a third of key patents
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/5...sition-for-5G-era-with-a-third-of-key-patents

China dusts the U.S., Finland, and South Korea with 34% of key 5G patents
https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/02/...nd-and-south-korea-with-34-of-key-5g-patents/

 

[Beast]

Okay let's come to 5G.

You seem to think that only telecom (and radio equipment) is the layer that matters in 5G. Yes, US doesn't have a vendor in the category of Nokia, Ericsson, or ZTE. But US is actually very active in many other domains of networking. Qualcomm is very active in many domains, and actually has a fair share of essential 5G patents. There are many other companies that produce all kinds of stuff and components.

Also, looking at the US alone is largely a waste because US has an alliance system, where even military vendors are shared.

As for cars, Chinese domestic market itself is dominated, still, by foreign companies and their ventures. China doesn't actually have a competitive car brand of the likes of Volkswagen, or Honda.

Of course there are bright spots in China's domestic car industry. Some state owned, and Geely.

But Chinese car industry as a whole hasn't even surpassed Korea yet, in terms of quality, reliability, and recognition, leave alone giants like Japan, Germany.

In premium segment the things are even different. China has no domestic home-grown competitor to companies like BMW, Audi etc.

Of course things may change, but we are stating things as they are, not as they may or will be.

Get your ur facts right. Current top model and car sold are all Chinese domestic car and brand. Even EV sector is dominate by BYD. We are in 2019 and not 2013. SK with a small domestic market needs to go abroad to expand and survive unlike China who has a huge domestic market. Local brand now puts emphasize on local rather than target for export.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

When comes to 5G, US is not even close.
In terms of infrastructure and civil engineering. China leaves US in dust.

When comes to car, being selective in your argument and cherry pick on some low end car doesn't make you right when plenty of high end one which you failed to include.


I guess you didn't even bother to watch the video. All my points is mention by reng zhengfei ,Huawei founder.

I have prove many times of your biased sourgraped comment. How is a personal attack when I can easily prove what I describe you with facts and evidence? Still remember u brag about China afraid of US sanction and not going to import Iran oil? You want me to link your post and thread to humiliate you further?

I posted what the Iranian minister himself said.

No, you don't, and you also claim you have an advantage in medicine making which is also untrue. Movie and TV making industry India and China are in the same league, no one has an advantage at all.

So Chinese movies are not able to make a dent in Hong Kong, or any of the major east asian markets where they are allowed, and are able to capture 55 or so % of the local market with the support of huge censorship and restriction in their favor.

But Indian movies dominate the local market with upto 90% of the local market, have major following through out South Asia (except Pakistan which has banned them). Apart from that, they have also been shown in China with major successes.

India-China trade in movies is heavily in favor of India, despite China being the more restricted and censored market of the two, YET, India has no advantage over China in movies.

I guess being able to look at reality is simply not your forte.

No, you don't, and you also claim you have an advantage in medicine making which is also untrue. Movie and TV making industry India and China are in the same league, no one has an advantage at all.



China in pole position for 5G era with a third of key patents
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/5...sition-for-5G-era-with-a-third-of-key-patents

China dusts the U.S., Finland, and South Korea with 34% of key 5G patents
https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/02/...nd-and-south-korea-with-34-of-key-5g-patents/

Even taking this report at face value, China has 34%, Korea 25%, and US 14%.

Even this, doesn't mean that US is "not even close."

And look at the methodology of the report and you will find out that they have made an estimation based on applications, which are not even granted patents, and in my opinion this methodology is crap.

No, you don't, and you also claim you have an advantage in medicine making which is also untrue. Movie and TV making industry India and China are in the same league, no one has an advantage at all.



China in pole position for 5G era with a third of key patents
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/5...sition-for-5G-era-with-a-third-of-key-patents

China dusts the U.S., Finland, and South Korea with 34% of key 5G patents
https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/02/...nd-and-south-korea-with-34-of-key-5g-patents/

Also, the absurdity is clearly visible by South Korea having 25% of the patents.

I guess you would agree that South Korea has a quarter of all SEP patents on 5G.

 

[beijingwalker]

I posted what the Iranian minister himself said.



So Chinese movies are not able to make a dent in Hong Kong, or any of the major east asian markets where they are allowed, and are able to capture 55 or so % of the local market with the support of huge censorship and restriction in their favor.

But Indian movies dominate the local market with upto 90% of the local market, have major following through out South Asia (except Pakistan which has banned them). Apart from that, they have also been shown in China with major successes.

India-China trade in movies is heavily in favor of India, despite China being the more restricted and censored market of the two, YET, India has no advantage over China in movies.

I guess being able to look at reality is simply not your forte.



Even taking this report at face value, China has 34%, Korea 25%, and US 14%.

Even this, doesn't mean that US is "not even close."

And look at the methodology of the report and you will find out that they have made an estimation based on applications, which are not even granted patents, and in my opinion this methodology is crap.

Most countries have their domestic movies dominating their domestic markets but that doesn't mean their movies have any influence globally, Chinese movie industry is huge which even Hollywood can not ignore that's why they invest heavily in the Chinese market and try to have Chinese elements added to their movies, Universal studio theme park will be opened in Beijing soon and it's gonna be the biggest in the world, if any country does have some slight influence in the world other than US that'll be China because of the money and market, definitely no India, China does have some influence in Hollywood, at least more so than India.but we don't claim that's an advantage we still think we are in the same league, saying India's movie and tv industries having an advantage than China's is just a big joke.

Deep Dish: China's Blockbuster Influence in Hollywood
https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/b...p-dish-chinas-blockbuster-influence-hollywood

Nine films that show how China influences Hollywood
https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/ente...how-how-china-influences-hollywood-iron-man-3

How China Is Taking Control of Hollywood
https://www.heritage.org/asia/heritage-explains/how-china-taking-control-hollywood

 

[925boy]

Firstly, comparing West and Russia and putting them together itself is extremely misleading. West/US have a huge upper hand on Russia when it comes to science and technology, including in military systems.

Second, China has not even come close to demonstrating measured success in weapon systems on par with the US.

You seem to be greatly underestimating CHina's COMBINED power. Yes, on a per capita basis, China isnt up to par, but the Per capitas of all Chinese citizens COMBINED is very powerful. That already makes China a superpower imo. If you dont already accept China is a superpower currently then you are already too late and in for nasty surprises (at least eventually). China is only lagging on an individual metric basis, not combined. Put all of China's competencies and assets together and you have a country no other country on earth can even contain. You're speaking alot of semantics to be frank with you. Look at Chinese funding of BRI. No other country on earth can or will attempt something like this. So transformational. You seem to not have the big picture perspective. YOu are only looking through a myopic scope or/and lens.