Would any second hand aircraft help PAF in its modernization?

[Super Falcon]

i think there are two options which are far far better than MIG 29

1. SU 27 from china which is not very likely

2. F 18 Super Hornet of australian Airforce which i think we can get them because our good defence relations with australia and i think australia are replacing them with F 35 if PAF or GOP is serious we should get it and im sure that F 18 will counter any fighter jet which INDIA gets in MRCA deal

 

[mean_bird]

i think there are two options which are far far better than MIG 29

1. SU 27 from china which is not very likely

2. F 18 Super Hornet of australian Airforce which i think we can get them because our good defence relations with australia and i think australia are replacing them with F 35 if PAF or GOP is serious we should get it and im sure that F 18 will counter any fighter jet which INDIA gets in MRCA deal

Wouldn't any deal with Australia require US approval? In which case we could get it from the US directly.

Also are the AUS F-18 hornets or super hornets? To the best of my knowledge they are F-18A/B.

The question is: is the PAF interested in a F-18? we could have asked for them directly instead of buying F-16s. Australian F-18, if available, won't be so before 2015 at the earliest. By that the FC-20, which is also a MRCA, will be advance enough to put any F-18 to shame.

 

[Manticore]

THE QUESTION OF MIRAGE2000 WERE VALID A DECADE BACK... BUT NOW ALL THE INVESTEMENT SHOULD BE DIRECTED TOWARDS

LIGHT=JF17
MEDIUM=J10/F16.[F16BLK52 DEAL COLLAPSED]
HEAVY=RAFALE/J11

..
MIG29/MIRAGES ETC IN TODAYS SCENERIO ANDUP IN MEDIUM TECK RANGE.
..SO IF WE HAVE TO, WE CAN ASK OUR POLITICIANS TO BEG FOR MONEY FOR A STRIKE/WESTERN/HITECK/DEPENDABLE PLATFORM LIKE RAFALE2SQDRNS RATHER THAN TO GET A DIFFERENT JET TYPE THAT WILL ONLY ENDUP AT THE SAME LEVEL OF OUR EXISTING PLANES

 

[hj786]

THE QUESTION OF MIRAGE2000 WERE VALID A DECADE BACK... BUT NOW ALL THE INVESTEMENT SHOULD BE DIRECTED TOWARDS
LIGHT=JF17
MEDIUM=J10/F16.[F16BLK52 DEAL COLLAPSED]
HEAVY=RAFALE/J11
..
MIG29/MIRAGES ETC IN TODAYS SCENERIO ANDUP IN MEDIUM TECK RANGE.
..SO IF WE HAVE TO, WE CAN ASK OUR POLITICIANS TO BEG FOR MONEY FOR A STRIKE/WESTERN/HITECK/DEPENDABLE PLATFORM LIKE RAFALE2SQDRNS RATHER THAN TO GET A DIFFERENT JET TYPE THAT WILL ONLY ENDUP AT THE SAME LEVEL OF OUR EXISTING PLANES

Please take out the HEAVY=RAFALE/J-11 from your list. If PAF needed these aeroplanes, they would have ordered them instead of more F-16, JF-17 and J-10. But they have not ordered them at all, not even a single squadron.

Pakistan developing its own technology is more crucial to modernisation of PAF than buying big fat expensive aeroplanes that will probably never be used. India will not go to full scale war with a fellow nuclear power, it would be insane and suicidal.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Pakistan is in no hurry and surely Pakistan Air Force has a future vision of her own apart from the F-16s PAF in future will have JF-17 blk 1/2+ plus J-10 in her Air Force. After these F-16s no more procurements of any Jets from US..France offers are way too expensive stuff why not wait for a decade until we've something special from China, till then all the investments go to FC-20/J-10 and JF-17 that surely will be inducted in large numbers. if in next 5 years we've AESA radars available from China for J-10/JF-17 and all of them are upgraded with such radars what else so we need??

 

[ejaz007]

A number of French aircraft such as Mirage III/IV/V, Mirage F-1 and Mirage 2000 shall be available once these are replaced with Rafael.

Also US F-16 shall be available once F-35 starts replacing them.

These two options are available in numbers. Whether PAF shall go for them or not is another question.

 

[IceCold]

IMO PAF will procure more used F-16s not only from the US but also from other nations(of course with US permission). Bringing in an entirely new platform will be a maintenance nightmare for a budget constraint airforce, however since we already maintain F-16s we can maintain a force level of F-16s and we should. I personally was of an opinion that the option of 18 more block 52 F-16s should also be exercised along with the used ones. We need to maintain a fleet of 100 F-16s atleast along with the JFs and J-10.

 

[MastanKhan]

Salaams

I was wondering whether there are any good second hand aircraft which can be bought by PAF to enhance its capabilities in any role.
Both fighters and non fighter aircraft can be considered.

I know that there are many who disagree with this strategy but in light of modernization of air forces all over the world i feel that some worthwhile planes may also be grounded/decommissioned and with some good bargaining skills, maybe PAF can make a value deal out of this development.

Following questions also need to be answered for any particular choice of aircraft.

1) What numbers are available and can the second hand aircraft be actually acquired by Pakistan or will economic/political issues be too much to handle?

2) In what role can the aircraft add real value to PAF?

3) What will be the additional impact in terms of maintenance/repair/support of the aircraft in case it is purchased?

Do share your views in an organized manner, looking forward to some interesting ideas!
Many thanks.

Hi,

If the question you would have asked ---are there any second hand planes available to PAF on NOW BASIS to enhance its capabilities-----a plane that is a top notch player---

Then there is only one answer to that---only the Qatari mirages maybe available at the earliest----these planes will fill in any role that PAF wants them to---the next in line are possibly UAE if I am not wrong---.


Other than that---there is nothing----.

 

[All-Green]

A number of French aircraft such as Mirage III/IV/V, Mirage F-1 and Mirage 2000 shall be available once these are replaced with Rafael.

Also US F-16 shall be available once F-35 starts replacing them.

These two options are available in numbers. Whether PAF shall go for them or not is another question.

Mirage2000 is a very capable platform and with Mirage expertise of PAF it is not at all a bad option to consider if available in numbers amounting to at least 4 squadrons.
With high cost of Rafael i am not sure by when will french air force part ways with Mirage2000.

 

[All-Green]

Hi,

If the question you would have asked ---are there any second hand planes available to PAF on NOW BASIS to enhance its capabilities-----a plane that is a top notch player---

Then there is only one answer to that---only the Qatari mirages maybe available at the earliest----these planes will fill in any role that PAF wants them to---the next in line are possibly UAE if I am not wrong---.


Other than that---there is nothing----.

Salaams,

Actually the recent Indian incursions led me to this question so yes that was initially in my mind; to increase lethality of PAF in minimum time.
What of the Qatari Mirages, are they available?

Any non fighter (bomber, transport, support etc) aircraft which you deem worthy of procurement?

 

[pakpower]

Look guys every country which uses F-16s are planning to get new jet called F-35 Lighteniing 2 from USA then why in the hell you guys can think about getting more F-16s from USA or from any other country.

Pakistan have to increase it's budget and improve it's budget to be able to get Newer Jets like F-35 and many other wich are availabel instead of buying second hand F-16s.

We must talk possitively and look ahead in future with possitive approach No more F-16s in my opinion.

 

[Manticore]

I WAS SAYING THAT IF THE ROMOUR OF THE STAGNATION OF F16 BLK52 DEAL IS AUTHENTIC, THEN WE SHOULD NOT ENTIRELY PIN OUR HOPES ON ONE J10... IT MIGHT GOD FORBID NOT RISE TO THE GREAT EXPECTATIONS..AND WE NEED AN ALTERNATIVE HITECK APPROACH...
AMERICAN F16 DEAL STAGNATED
RUSSIAN WONT SELL
FRANCH IS ONLY THE OPTION LEFT.

.
f15 blk52 and j10 combo are great if the deal [ against su30/ f18 ] gets through but if not then we would have to make serious and quick decisions and not wait for another dacade gone to waste.
regards

 

[mean_bird]

The F-16 blk 52 deal has not stagnated. Its very much there and on-going.

The reason some people think so, is because they had the misinformation that the first blk 52 would be arriving in Jan 2009. The ACM, however, had said that the F-16 blk 52 would be arriving in 2010 through 2011.

And honestly speaking, any F-16 would be part of EDI, FMF, etc and would be much more cheaper than any other plane we can think of buying. The FC-20 (J-10) would be given on soft loans, meaning we do not pay the bulk of the amount now.

For those dreaming about Rafale, are we getting it on subsidised rates? is france going to provide us soft loans? do we have the budget to buy them off the shelf? If you consider training, missiles, infrastructure and the planes themselves, each Rafale would probably cost double than the best F-16 or FC-20 we are hoping to get.

Eurofighter is also out of question for the same reason given above and add the strings attached (UK). Same goes for Grippen (US strings) not to mention our JF-17 would be almost at par with the Grippen.

Therefore, the only possible second hand plane PAF will think of buying is the F-16 if available cheap, in good shape and on an immediate basis.

Otherwise, AESA radar, MICA missiles, Western Avionics, are all available to us....just throw in the money and have a JF-17 or FC-20 to your liking.

 

[Keysersoze]

I WAS SAYING THAT IF THE ROMOUR OF THE STAGNATION OF F16 BLK52 DEAL IS AUTHENTIC, THEN WE SHOULD NOT ENTIRELY PIN OUR HOPES ON ONE J10... IT MIGHT GOD FORBID NOT RISE TO THE GREAT EXPECTATIONS..AND WE NEED AN ALTERNATIVE HITECK APPROACH...
AMERICAN F16 DEAL STAGNATED
RUSSIAN WONT SELL
FRANCH IS ONLY THE OPTION LEFT.

.
f15 blk52 and j10 combo are great if the deal [ against su30/ f18 ] gets through but if not then we would have to make serious and quick decisions and not wait for another dacade gone to waste.
regards

Antibody stop using block capitals

 

[Super Falcon]

than why airforce go for Mig 29