Would any second hand aircraft help PAF in its modernization?

[Kompromat]

The PAF should by used B-17's from the Confederate (Commemorative) Air Force of the USA. They would work great over FATA.

Commemorative Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We don't need bombers for TTP based in FATA. F-16s are doing a great job through surgical strikes. What we need is attack helicopters with night fighting capabilities as most Special Operations are mounted at night.

 

[Viking 63]

Maybe they need to bring out A-5 and Mig 19s to hit TTP from storage.

 

[fatman17]

PAF has a history of 'picking up' used aircraft to keep its air-arm potent.
Sabres from Germany and Iran.
Mirages from all over the world.
C130's from Australia.
F16s from Jordan.
the Sabres, Starfighters and B-57's were a mix of new and old in the 60's.

actual new deals were for some Mirages, F16s, F-6's, F-7s and F-7PG's and now JFT.

 

[fatman17]

according to the Aug issue of AFM, UAEAF Mirage-2000-9's may be coming to PAF after they are replaced by F-16s in the UAEAF. this could take some years (2-3) though.

 

[araz]

according to the Aug issue of AFM, UAEAF Mirage-2000-9's may be coming to PAF after they are replaced by F-16s in the UAEAF. this could take some years (2-3) though.

Sir.
I would take this news as a graft to pressurise our neighbours into hurrying with the Rafale deal. You know as well as me that upto 58 French 2K5s have been on sale for some time. Last time PAF made any enquiries it was getting those plañes with fairly substantial amount of spares at 20 million per plane. We dìd not take the plunge then so why now. Also the Air chief has recsntly described our mirage fleet as a headache. So why add more to this headache by buying something else where the supply chain is limited and the assembly line has shut down. For these reasons the only sensible choice remains the 16s as we have discussed earlier. I might even be tempted to go for the FC20 in 2020s if there is a nèed for a third platform.
Araz

 

[T90TankGuy]

Guys this a a five yr old thread , why restart it?

 

[Donatello]

Sir.
I would take this news as a graft to pressurise our neighbours into hurrying with the Rafale deal. You know as well as me that upto 58 French 2K5s have been on sale for some time. Last time PAF made any enquiries it was getting those plañes with fairly substantial amount of spares at 20 million per plane. We dìd not take the plunge then so why now. Also the Air chief has recsntly described our mirage fleet as a headache. So why add more to this headache by buying something else where the supply chain is limited and the assembly line has shut down. For these reasons the only sensible choice remains the 16s as we have discussed earlier. I might even be tempted to go for the FC20 in 2020s if there is a nèed for a third platform.
Araz

The Mirages in question are the Mirage 2000-9 versions, very potent, similar to F-16s in the strike package they bring and the learning experience of what our adversary has.
Air Chief mentioned the Mirage III/V as headache, as they are too old. Mirage 2000 was a full gen ahead of the III/V.

 

[araz]

The Mirages in question are the Mirage 2000-9 versions, very potent, similar to F-16s in the strike package they bring and the learning experience of what our adversary has.
Air Chief mentioned the Mirage III/V as headache, as they are too old. Mirage 2000 was a full gen ahead of the III/V.

Donatello.
Iknow a bit about the M2K series and fully understand the reasons if PAF wants to take them on. My reasoning is based on it being a step back rather than forwards. The reason behind is the closure of assembly lines, the expense involved in running these planes( I heard even UAE dont use them as much as they use the 16sAnd Indonesia and Taiwan have retkred their fleets due to expenze of the platform. If they come at very favourable rates then peruaps but there is goingto be a huge headache involved in integrating and ,running them. Just because a few pilots have flown them does not mean that the trained personnel are there or the tactics are matured. Because they are a generation ahead of the3/5s means that the old infrastructure will not work. Do we as I mentioned put in a RD93aMA. Engine in it and then hope that tue commonality of engines makes it more viable option. After allthe headache it is a platcorm known to your archrival. Frankly I still maintain it will be a bad move.I underztand the reasons but they were valid 10-15 yrs ago but not now.
Araz

 

[thrilainmanila]

buying say 30-40 second hand M2009 will cost something like 3 billion dollars, I doubt the PAF would go for them, I think getting used F-16s and getting the MLU'd would be a more cost effective option, the M2009 is a potent beast but the PAF should have inducted it years ago.

 

[Donatello]

Donatello.
Iknow a bit about the M2K series and fully understand the reasons if PAF wants to take them on. My reasoning is based on it being a step back rather than forwards. The reason behind is the closure of assembly lines, the expense involved in running these planes( I heard even UAE dont use them as much as they use the 16sAnd Indonesia and Taiwan have retkred their fleets due to expenze of the platform. If they come at very favourable rates then peruaps but there is goingto be a huge headache involved in integrating and ,running them. Just because a few pilots have flown them does not mean that the trained personnel are there or the tactics are matured. Because they are a generation ahead of the3/5s means that the old infrastructure will not work. Do we as I mentioned put in a RD93aMA. Engine in it and then hope that tue commonality of engines makes it more viable option. After allthe headache it is a platcorm known to your archrival. Frankly I still maintain it will be a bad move.I underztand the reasons but they were valid 10-15 yrs ago but not now.
Araz

You have very valid points in there and i agree with all of them. The question of acquiring them earlier wasn't there since in order to Purchase UAE fleet we need UAE to sell them in the first place. Since they just got the F-16s recently and will be getting more, they would be willing to retire these aircrafts, but hey, PAF was able to source Mirage III/V from Libya, Australia, France, Spain etc. So that's more to do with diplomatic pull than anything else.

But depending on how the Indians play the French, it might be difficult to source the spares and ammunition as such, for example any BVR missiles. Best would be to scour Taiwan and Indonesia who retired these planes. In any case, it's just a speculation.

 

[araz]

You have very valid points in there and i agree with all of them. The question of acquiring them earlier wasn't there since in order to Purchase UAE fleet we need UAE to sell them in the first place. Since they just got the F-16s recently and will be getting more, they would be willing to retire these aircrafts, but hey, PAF was able to source Mirage III/V from Libya, Australia, France, Spain etc. So that's more to do with diplomatic pull than anything else.

But depending on how the Indians play the French, it might be difficult to source the spares and ammunition as such, for example any BVR missiles. Best would be to scour Taiwan and Indonesia who retired these planes. In any case, it's just a speculation.

The ones I am talking about are 59 M2K5s of the armie de aire which were ready for sale then with spares enough to last us for 20yrs. PAF backed out then after a fairly detailed look. I dont see the point of changing its mind now and this is what concerns me. Take another look at it from an outsiders perspective and keep Indias stalled Rafale deal in view and see who stands to gain from this news and you can see a different picture emerging from what you are seeing. This my brother is what I am looking at and hence my posts.
Araz

 

[fatman17]

Sir.
I would take this news as a graft to pressurise our neighbours into hurrying with the Rafale deal. You know as well as me that upto 58 French 2K5s have been on sale for some time. Last time PAF made any enquiries it was getting those plañes with fairly substantial amount of spares at 20 million per plane. We dìd not take the plunge then so why now. Also the Air chief has recsntly described our mirage fleet as a headache. So why add more to this headache by buying something else where the supply chain is limited and the assembly line has shut down. For these reasons the only sensible choice remains the 16s as we have discussed earlier. I might even be tempted to go for the FC20 in 2020s if there is a nèed for a third platform.
Araz

PAF would not IMO take the entire fleet. maybe 20 aircraft enough for 1-Sqn dedicated to 'night strike' capabilities supplanting the Mirage-ROSE fleet. the balance Mirage fleet is certainly a headache.. that would seem logical to me.

 

[Storm Force]

Those second hand mirage 2009. Will. Cost more than a brand new jf17 to buy per unit with the hyper expensive weapons.

Great war plane but too costly.

Only reason anyone buys used stuff is if it's free as some of your mirages where or dirt cheap.

These are neither free or cheap

 

[fatman17]

Those second hand mirage 2009. Will. Cost more than a brand new jf17 to buy per unit with the hyper expensive weapons.

Great war plane but too costly.

Only reason anyone buys used stuff is if it's free as some of your mirages where or dirt cheap.

These are neither free or cheap

UAE is not Qatar

 

[SBD-3]

Right now GoP has not given alloted funds to PAF,so discussing these questions will be waste of time.

You may not know but PAF's and military's payments are always released on time no matter how scarce the foreign exchange is....