World looks anew on Balochistan as China dreams big

[itachiii]

Unfortunately for you, India has done a lot of work to significantly quench most of that potential. Most of that work involves economic development. Religious extremities are far lower than Pakistan. The demographics are mixing up cause there are economic centres in north, east, west and south. Every state is politically well represented. All insurgencies have either died out, or on decline. Cant imagine how you see more scope for insurgency in India than Pakistan.

let them have deluions of breaking india or ele they cant have a good sleep....

 

[Developereo]

only way we can make these projects successful if locals also benefit from them.the more opportunity locals will have to make honest pay for honest days work. More and more it will become for any body to hire extra hands to create trouble.

Seems like common sense -- especially in light of the prevailing situation in that province.

But common sense is all too uncommon in Pakistan, and every indication is that this episode of Chinese investment will end like the last one.

A bunch of shysters from other provinces will make out like bandits, the locals will get screwed, and their resentment against the rest of Pakistan will grow.

 

[Developereo]

Majority of the Baloch people will react positively to this development

From what I have heard, the local Baluch benefited zilch from the Gwadar development.

Their lands were bought dirt cheap by outsiders who then sold it to buyers in Karachi, Lahore and elsewhere for mega profits.

Now, while the outsiders own the new developed real estate, the locals live in shanty towns and barely scrape by doing menial jobs.

 

[Devil Soul]

From what I have heard, the local Baluch benefited zilch from the Gwadar development.

Their lands were bought dirt cheap by outsiders who then sold it to buyers in Karachi, Lahore and elsewhere for mega profits.

Now, while the outsiders own the new developed real estate, the locals live in shanty towns and barely scrape by doing menial jobs.

Sad, but true...plus This case of land buying you mentioned is not just isolated to Baluchistan, it happens every where in Pakistan, now i am not saying that this is right, but isn't it time that we move on??? the best the GOV can do for now is to make sure that local are given preference while hiring and provide them with good living conditions, and also compensate them...

 

[Developereo]

isn't it time that we move on???

My prediction is that the same pattern will keep repeating in Baluchistan. The locals will get the crap, bottom rung jobs, or a few token positions, for PR photos. The vast majority of the economic benefit will flow to people from other provinces.

The only solution would be to make sure the lion's share of taxes are used directly to build infrastructure and public facilities (schools, hospitals, housing, etc.) in Baluchistan itself and that locals are given preference in using these facilities.

 

[darkinsky]

this is all just hype created by ganjas, believe me it will die down in one year, and nothing on ground will be there in one year

after one year come back and you will observe it as i said

its an initial hype just to make sure their government doesnt end in few months

i will be bothered if the basic things happen in balochistan

1) security situation improves a lot that they people from other provinces dont feel fear while travelling to balochistan

2) gwadar port operations increase

3) there is some work on ratodero gwadar motorway

4) the water supply to gwadar plan has been completed

5) there are new constructions happening in gwadar

6) highways and roads are built in balochistan

7) the angry baloch has cooled down and BLA propaganda is minimised

8) balochistan economy showed improvement and other new projects initiated

if these things are not achieved then my forecast for the rest of PMLN time will be negative

 

[Devil Soul]

My prediction is that the same pattern will keep repeating in Baluchistan. The locals will get the crap, bottom rung jobs, or a few token positions, for PR photos. The vast majority of the economic benefit will flow to people from other provinces.

The only solution would be to make sure the lion's share of taxes are used directly to build infrastructure and public facilities (schools, hospitals, housing, etc.) in Baluchistan itself and that locals are given preference in using these facilities.

Didnt i say the same in my post? that better living conditions need to be provided along with better employment opportunities??

 

[Developereo]

Didnt i say the same in my post? that better living conditions need to be provided along with better employment opportunities??

We both agree on what should happen. I am saying I am not too hopeful that it will happen.
Let's wait and, hopefully, I will be proven wrong this time.

 

[Devil Soul]

We both agree on what should happen. I am saying I am not too hopeful that it will happen.
Let's wait and, hopefully, I will be proven wrong this time.

well ur right for now all we can do is hope for the best and pray

 

[Cheetah786]

Seems like common sense -- especially in light of the prevailing situation in that province.

But common sense is all too uncommon in Pakistan, and every indication is that this episode of Chinese investment will end like the last one.

A bunch of shysters from other provinces will make out like bandits, the locals will get screwed, and their resentment against the rest of Pakistan will grow.

I believe hardest part in pour current security situation was to convince some one for investment in pakistan never mind Baluchistan.Kudos to Prime minister he has done that no matter what the reason for china.

Now comes the Easiest part for him and thats he be fair to Bloch and provide security to investors and their guest.I understand people from other provinces bough the local land for pennies on dollar more power to them.

In some some countries they counter this with a hefty property tax on outsiders that wanna own property in their state or province.Local residence property tax rate are 1.5%(example) or less while outsiders could be looking at 3 to 4% unless they are developing it for commercial or industrial use.

If their is adequate public transportation and housing schemes by the Government for people to move of Sardars land and into some thing of their own from where they can go back and forth to the job you will see support for Sardars to dwindle and law and order restored.

i am sure others can contribute more ideas to Prime Minister to improve the daily lives of average Bloch people.

 

[muse]

[MENTION=144931] "What should we do" to deal with India?

First thing to do is to put the Pakistani house in order - Foreign policy is a reflection of internal dynamics and compulsions.

Yes, Pakistan can blame India for making mischief through Afghanistan, but India can argue, much as Pakistan arguers in Captive kashmir, that it is not twisting anyone's arm to make mischief against the state - the fact of the matter is that only Pakistan can solve Pakistan's problems.

So how does the Pakistan state put the Pakistani house in order?

First and foremost, the absoluter number one priority, reform the Army, and clean up the Army's agencies, in the sense that their function and mission and chain of command is made crystal clear, through legislation.

And then build some serious confidence in India - I mean SERIOUS, the India is not averse to Pakistani claims in Captive Kashmir, however, if you insist that the basis of these claims is confessional, you put the Indian in a position where he cannot politically justify engagement - The Indian says Ok, we'll talk Kashmir, but lets talk trade and normalization first (foreign policy is a reflection of internal, domestic dynamic and compulsions)

At the same time the Pakistani state has to reverse this Islamism BS, How? the same way it started it, through the schools and through official patronage and lets be clear, without a constant and genuinely conscious effort to build social awareness of the precariousness of Pakistan's existence and the absolute necessity to take actions in support of the economy - look, Pakistanis can handle the truth, just tell them the truth, they can tell sincerity and they will respond to the truth.

 

[muse]

Pakistan Army is not a mercenary Army and you are clueless about Pakistan Armed Forces,

I served in Pakistan Armed Forces, so I don't appreciate some clown sitting in UK who has never served in Pakistan Armed Forces tell me that Pakistan's Army is Mercenary.

Pakistan Army is squarely behind China and our Military relations with Chinese Military are strong as a rock.

That's a lot of emotion and very little sense - in fact Pakistan armed forces, especially the Pakistan army, have a mercenary Ethic, as exemplified by their action in Jordan, Arabia and the Gulf - I specifically stated that the US has an asset in the Pakistan army due to the ethic of the Pakistan army - You are of course free to vent your frustration at the truth.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

That's a lot of emotion and very little sense - in fact Pakistan armed forces, especially the Pakistan army, have a mercenary Ethic, as exemplified by their action in Jordan, Arabia and the Gulf - I specifically stated that the US has an asset in the Pakistan army due to the ethic of the Pakistan army - You are of course free to vent your frustration at the truth.

You quoting decades old examples during zias era(islamist bs) .... but than again...ur captain britain ..


P.S= Next time dnt post BS tht PA is anti america etc... alteast stick to one of your rants.

 

[Cheetah786]

muse

unfortunately foreign policy is in the hands of pakistani generals .You know the same ones who are hesitating to clean up Fata areas of terrorist cause they cant decide which one is good Taliban and which is bad? All solutions you mentioned are also involve military.Can you or any body honestly see the Generals given up their powers to put pakistan on right track. pasha blamed the military elite for all problems pakistan face today(straight from horses mouth)and refused to take responsibility for his own actions even though he was part of that elite.

you think Same military will be OK with being dismantled and re assembled as we speak they are investigating who released the report to foreign media not their failures.

 

[muse]

A few things I'd like to point out, if you will...

PA has moved increasingly further away from the US, so the US' so called "assets" in the PA are dwindling day by day. PA still hasn't forgotten about how the US abandoned Pakistan before, and the current relationship (as far as the PA is concerned) is only temporary until the US moves out of Afghanistan and once again abandons Pakistan to clean up the mess in Afghanistan.

There is also this misguided notion that the US navy would assist the Indian navy against Pakistan in any future conflict, as you seemed to hint at with the Bahrain comment. It's nothing more than paranoia, in my completely and utterly unprofessional opinion, so take that with a grain of salt. Regardless, I think India has seen the way the US has treated Pakistan and is wary of any relationship with the US, even in future conflicts with Pakistan. When the Indians say "strategic ally" they probably only mean against China, as China is the only country that the US has any real interest in and considers a threat.

I have always been wary of China's intentions in Pakistan, and while I am happy that they consider Pakistan to be of extreme importance, logic and history dictates that no two nations are ever really "friends" (or in this case "brothers"), they're temporary allies at best. Still, that doesn't mean that the PA will leave or downgrade China for the US, it's not stupid to repeat the same mistake over and over again, especially since Pakistan at least has some leverage against China (Gwadar port and natural resources) unlike the US. The US will naturally try and portray the Chinese to be a threat to the PA, but I doubt they'll succeed, even with heavy bribes to military officials, this is not guaranteed to work.

In the middle of all of this is Balochistan, or more specifically Gwadar port, the very reason why China even has any real interest in Pakistan in this day and age. If it wasn't for Gwadar port, the Chinese would treat Pakistan the same way the US has done for decades.

This whole idea of Pakistan army turned "mercenary" army is naive at worst and ignorant at best. It does not take into account geopolitical situations and the international situations. What was Pakistan to do? Decline and be labeled an "against us" nation? What do you think would happen, especially considering that the PA had supported the Taliban before 9/11? The US may not have gone to war with Pakistan, but they would do everything in their power to see Pakistan fragmented and broken. In the end, Pakistan had no other choice but to go to war, as it was a "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" situation. I have no doubt that the senior leadership thought out the entire consequences before deciding to join the US.

An argument could be made that the US received "payments" to fight the US' war, and while I agree that this is the US' war, the so called "payments" are don't even scratch the surface of what the war has cost Pakistan, thus this argument is entirely invalid.

So many contradictions in your exposition - You say it's naive and ignorant to suggest that the Pakistan army has a Mercenary Ethic - You then proceed to confirm that it in fact does, you argue " what else could we do?"

You are also mistaken about Chinese policy, after all, Gwadar is a new dynamic, where as Chinese policy has been rather consistent.

@Pakistanisage and Chinese friends and brother ally will find your suggestion that we can never be friends interesting and you owe it to them to explain why