Echo_419
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Working on giving India access to Defence technology: US
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That Guy
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Hey, a guy can hope, can't he?
That Guy
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Oh, you're using the whole "that's not proof, show me proof" argument. Yup, I'm dealing with a crazy person here.
By the way, that's national development loans and military remittance, Pakistan has to pay the loans back. The military remittance is for fighting for the US's war, which, by the way, has cost over a hundred billion dollars to Pakistan, which means that the money they gave only covers a 10th of the total cost. Not to mention that India also receives national development loans too, one of it's biggest donors being the UK.
Don't be so narrow sighted...unless you're literally narrow sighted, in which case I apologize profusely for causing any offense.
hey stop copying my Writing style
It hurts paji
Do you know this guy? He claims that he's not new and some random unknown mod knows him, even though his account shows that he registered this month.
Mate please try to understand only if the whole world agrees then u can stop conventional weapons
otherwise not.See these destructive powers with china if not countered by us will make our nuclear weapons useless.
http://E-bomb The real doomsday weapon | Russia & India Report
E-bomb The real doomsday weapon
April 26, 2013 Rakesh Krishnan Simha
Electromagnetic pulse weapons that can paralyse a country in a nanosecond are already in the possession of several states. By 2015, North Korea is likely to acquire one. If you are not sweating, check your pulse.
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E-bomb The real doomsday weapon
As terrorists get smarter, doomsday becomes more realistic. Source: Getty Images / Fotobank
A nuclear weapon explodes 300 km above Nebraska, the geographical centre of the United States. The blast is far too high to kill people by heat or radioactivity. But it does something far worse it sends the worlds most advanced country into the Stone Age.
This isnt science fiction. The technology for launching this version of Armageddon exists and is ridiculously low tech. Even an ordinary, low-yield nuclear bomb exploded in the upper atmosphere by terrorists, with help from dysfunctional nuclear powers such as North Korea or Pakistan, would unleash a deadly electromagnetic pulse (EMP) that will take only a nanosecond to knock out an entire countrys electrical grid.
That means every microchip will be fried and all electronic systems will fail. The result would be fundamental collapse as the United States EMP Commission describes it. All phones and mobiles will stop functioning, the transport system would come to a halt, the banking system, airports, food and fuel distribution systems would collapse. The fabric of modern society would be ripped apart.
The day after Boston
If the Boston bombings have proved anything it is that low tech warfare can bring a high-tech nation to its knees. Two Chechen brothers, not very well-equipped or professionally trained but nevertheless motivated by Islamic zeal, forced an entire city to close down.
Pressure cooker bombs are cheap; flying stolen aircraft into skyscrapers is free (other than the cost of flight training) and sending a bunch of raiders into a modern metropolis (as the Pakistanis did in Mumbai) takes only a few thousand dollars. But at the end of the standoff, the terrorists always lose and often die. No modern state has ever buckled under terror.
Terrorists and terrorist states, therefore, want something that will give them more bang for the buck. It makes you wonder, what next?
Your worst nightmare
The Russians were the first to understand the implications of EMP as a weapon. Soviet physicist Andrei Sakharov proposed using this principle in a bomb in the 1950s. On October 22, 1962, during one of their ABM tests, the Russians detonated a 300 kiloton hydrogen warhead (20 times more powerful than Hiroshima) at an altitude of 300 km over Kazakhstan.
The blast deliberately targeted two cable lines. The first one was the 550 km East-West telephone line all the fuses in the line which was 7.5 m above the ground were destroyed. The second, the 1,000 km Aqmola-Almaty power line, carried electricity from a power station in the city of Karaganda. It was a lead-shielded cable protected against mechanical damage by spiral-wound steel tape, and was buried at a depth of 90 cm. This cable succumbed completely to the EMP within seconds of the blast, overheating and setting the power station on fire.
The United States military realised EMPs potential as a weapon the same year, in the Starfish Prime test of a much larger 1.44 megaton warhead at a height of 400 km over the Pacific Ocean. The pulse knocked out street lights and damaged telephones in Hawaii. Four days after the explosion the UK satellite Ariel was unable to generate sufficient electricity to function properly.
People are more vulnerable today because virtually everything now runs on microchips, which are a million times more vulnerable to a power surge than the thermonic valves used in electronics in 1962. Today most people around the world are unable to function normally without access to mobile phones and computers.
How does it work?
A nuclear explosion in the upper atmosphere releases EMP that spreads out and radiates a large area underneath it. The area affected by the EMP depends on the height at which it is detonated. The higher in the atmosphere the explosion occurs, the larger the radius of damage.
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Its like a powerful lightning bolt that surges into your house. The strength of the pulse 30,000 to 50,000 volts per metre is more than enough to burn your circuits and make your television set explode. Just like in the movies.
Such damage cannot be repaired everything would need to be replaced. But wait, even that wont be easy. According to one study, if the United States lost its large transformers, 40 per cent of the countrys population would be without electrical power for as long as four to 10 years.
That isnt farfetched as it sounds. Several countries, including the United States, no longer manufacture large power transformers. They are all sourced from abroad. At a US Senate hearing on March 8, 2005, Dr Lowell Wood, astrophysicist and Commissioner of the EMP Commission, declared: And when you want a new one, you order it and it is delivered it is, first of all, manufactured.... Typical sort of delays from the time you order until the time you have a transformer in service are one to two years, and that is with everything working great.
If the United States was already out of power and it suddenly needed a few hundred new transformers because of burnout, you could understand why we found not that it would take a year or two to recover, it might take decades, because you burn down the national plant, you have no way of fixing it and really no way of reconstituting it other than waiting for slow-moving foreign manufacturers to very slowly reconstitute an entire continent's worth of burned down power plants.
Whos coming to the party?
According to a report prepared for the United States Congress, Russia and China are now capable of launching a crippling high EMP strike against the United States with a nuclear-tipped ballistic missile, and other nations, such as North Korea, could possibly have the capability by 2015. Other nations that could possibly develop a similar capability over the next few years include France, Israel, India, the UK and Pakistan.
China could either blanket the area over Taiwan to paralyse the country or above a US Navy aircraft carrier to cripple carrier groups. Israel can despatch Iran or any Middle Eastern challenger to the Stone Age. And what North Korea can do is anybodys guess.
Ramping up doomsday power
EMP can be produced on a smaller, non-nuclear scale using a device with batteries or chemical explosives. A group of Russian scientists from Tomsk, Yekaterinburg, Nizhny Novgorod and Moscow have developed a series of unique compact generators capable of producing high-energy pulses of hundreds and even thousands of megawatts, Yuri Zaitsev, an adviser at Russias Academy of Engineering Sciences, wrote in a 2007 article.
The United States has also ramped up its research on non-nuclear EMP weapons. In October 2012, Boeing tested a missile system that does not use any explosives, thereby limiting damage to its intended goal of directing microwave energy that can cause instant blackouts. Aimed at taking out Irans nuclear plants, it is codenamed CHAMP Counter-Electronics High Power Advanced Missile Project.
The ultimate weapon
However, theres one bomb that could be the ultimate doomsday weapon an ordinary nuclear warhead packed with common cobalt. The bomb transforms the cobalt into highly radioactive cobalt-60, which has a half-life of over five years.
You can run but you cant hide from such a weapon because unlike the radioactivity of Hiroshima type bombs that remains local, the radioactivity of cobalt-60 would spread around the world and slowly kill all life.
The average supermarket stocks food for two days, and regional food warehouses may have a few weeks supply. What are you going to do for the next five years? Compared with the madness that modern maniacs can unleash, the horrors of WWII and 9/11 are but mere sideshows.
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http://Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) | Institute for Defence Studies and ...
The second Chinese BMD test has a message for India: propel the development of long-range (exo-atmospheric) interception capabilities to mitigate the possibility of further asymmetry on strategic forces
http://China Launches Three ASAT Satellites | Washington Free Beacon
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Motive Unknown
China Launches Three ASAT Satellites
Small maneuvering orbiters include one with a robotic arm
AP
AP
BY: Bill Gertz
August 26, 2013 5:00 am
Chinas military recently launched three small satellites into orbit as part of Beijings covert anti-satellite warfare program, according to a U.S. official.
The three satellites, launched July 20 by a Long March-4C launcher, were later detected conducting unusual maneuvers in space indicating the Chinese are preparing to conduct space warfare against satellites, said the official who is familiar with intelligence reports about the satellites.
One of the satellites was equipped with an extension arm capable of attacking orbiting satellites that currently are vulnerable to both kinetic and electronic disruption.
This is a real concern for U.S. national defense, the official said. The three are working in tandem and the one with the arm poses the most concern. This is part of a Chinese Star Wars program.
Chinas 2007 test of an anti-satellite missile shocked U.S. military and intelligence leaders who realized the U.S. satellites, a key to conducting high-performance warfare, are vulnerable to attack. Officials have said China could cripple U.S. war-fighting efforts by knocking out a dozen satellites. Satellites are used for military command and control, precision weapons guidance, communications and intelligence-gathering.
The official discussed some aspects of the Chinese anti-satellite (ASAT) program on condition of anonymity after some details were disclosed in online posts by space researchers.
The retractable arm can be used for a number of things to gouge, knock off course, or grab passing satellites, the official said.
The three satellites also could perform maintenance or repairs on orbiting satellites, the official said.
Details of the small satellite activity were first reported last week in the blog War is Boring.
The posting stated that one of the satellites was monitored moving all over the place and appeared to make close-in passes with other orbiting satellites.
It was so strange, space analysts wondered whether China was testing a new kind of space weapon  one that could intercept other satellites and more or less claw them to death, the report said.
The U.S. official said: It is exactly what was reported: An ASAT test.
According to space researchers who tracked the satellites movements, one of the satellites on Aug. 16 lowered its orbit by about 93 miles. It then changed course and rendezvoused with a different satellite. The two satellites reportedly passed within 100 meters of each other.
One space researcher was quoted in the online report as saying one satellite was equipped with a robot-manipulator arm developed by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
The Chinese appear to be testing their capability for intercepting and either damaging or destroying orbiting satellites by testing how close they can maneuver to a satellite, the U.S. official said.
They are learning the tactics, techniques and processes needed for anti-satellite operations, the official said.
The Chinese have given a code name to the satellites and numbered the satellites differently. Chinese state-run media identified the satellites as the Chuang Xin-3 (Innovation-3); the Shi Yan-7 (Experiment-7); and Shi Jian-15 (Practice-15). The Shi Jian-15 is believed to be the satellite with the robotic arm. The official said the designation used in the blog, SY-7, was not correct.
A Pentagon spokesman said the three Chinese spacecraft are being monitored by the U.S. Strategic Commands Joint Functional Combatant Command for Space (JFCC-SPACE), consistent with its routine operations to maintain track of objects in space. The spacecraft were tracked since the July 20 launch and the command noticed the relative motions of these satellites amongst each other and with respect to other space objects, the spokesman said.
The official said the Obama administration is keeping details of the Chinese anti-satellite warfare program secret as part of its policies designed to play down threats to U.S. national security.
There is a Star Wars threat to our satellites, the official. But the official said the administration does not want the American people to know about it because it would require plusing up defense budgets.
The use of satellites for space warfare appears to be a departure from past Chinese ASAT efforts. China faced international condemnation in 2007 for firing a missile that blasted a Chinese weather satellite in space, leaving tens of thousands of debris pieces.
A recently translated Chinese defense paper on the use of a kinetic energy anti-satellite missile revealed that China is making progress with its anti-satellite warfare program. The report reveals that a U.S. software program called Satellite Tool Kit is being used by the Chinese military for its ASAT program.
Kinetic energy antisatellite warfare is a revolutionary new concept and a deterrent mode of operation, the 2012 translation of the report stated. The construction of the corresponding information flow is certainly important to the effectiveness of the kinetic energy antisatellite operation. The STK package, being a powerful professional space simulation platform, will play an active supporting role in research on information flow in kinetic energy antisatellite warfare.
A joint State Department and Pentagon report on export controls published last year stated that China is working on several types of anti-satellite warfare systems.
China continues to develop and refine its ASAT capabilities as one component of a multi-dimensional program to limit or prevent the use of space-based assets by potential adversaries during times of conflict, the report said.
In addition to the direct-ascent ASAT program, China is developing other technologies and concepts for kinetic and directed energy for ASAT missions.
The report said China has said that to support its manned and lunar space program, it is improving its ability to track and identify satellitesa prerequisite for effective, precise counter-space operations.
The Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) is acquiring a range of technologies to improve Chinas space and counter-space capabilities, the report said.
A recent PLA analysis concluded that space is the commanding point for the modern information battlefield.
Battlefield monitor and control, information communications, navigation and position guidance all rely on satellites and other sensors, and Chinese military writings emphasize, destroying, damaging, and interfering with the enemys reconnaissance and communications satellites.
The military writings suggest that satellites could be part of an initial attack aimed at blinding the enemy. Destroying or capturing satellites and other sensors will deprive an opponent of initiative on the battlefield and [make it difficult] for them to bring their precision guided weapons into full play, the PLA report said.
Rick Fisher, a Chinese military affairs specialist, said the maneuvering satellites are a significant element of Chinas military space program.
The satellite with the robotic arm is a clear dual-use, military-civilian satellite, said Fisher, with the International Assessment and Strategy Center.
The robot arm will develop a larger arm for Chinas future space station, but this satellite can also perform co-orbital surveillance or attacks against target satellites, Fisher told the Free Beacon. It is essentially Chinas version of the 2007 DARPA Orbital Express satellite that was criticized by liberals as step toward militarizing space.
According to Fisher, the satellites are part of a space surveillance and targeting system that will monitor space debris and also allow interception of space targets.
Elements of the satellite system also will be used for Chinas missile defense system, which is linked to Chinas anti-satellite missiles.
But despite any potential peaceful uses, the main point for the United States is that the PLA owns these programs and will use them as weapons against American space assets when it so chooses, Fisher said. All future U.S. military satellites require low-cost stealth or defense capabilities if the U.S. is to keep its essential military space architecture.
The space weapons program in China shows that no amount of American restraint will halt Beijings drive for military advantage in space.
Today Chinas dictatorship rejects all forms of strategic arms control that could deny the Communist Party a capability that it deems essential to the survival of its dictatorship, Fisher said. When China gains superiority in any strategic category it will be even less willing to bargain away capability for the sake of stability. China will not reward any future U.S. nuclear weapon reductions or restraint in developing space weapons.
China also conducted a maneuvering small satellite test in 2010, according to defense officials, which also was deemed an ASAT-related experiment.
Two Chinese satellites rendezvoused several hundred miles above Earth in August 2010 as part of what was viewed by officials as a contribution to the anti-satellite weapons program.
The Pentagon said at the time, Our analysts determined there are two Chinese satellites in close proximity of each other. We do not know if they have made physical contact. The Chinese have not contacted us regarding these satellites.
The two satellites also maneuvered during the Aug. 22, 2010 encounter. Based on the behavior, it appeared one of the satellites made contact with another satellite causing it to change orbits. The two satellites were estimated to have been as close as 200 meters to each other.
Bang Galore
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Pakistan love to talk about some mysterious "geopoitics" as if it is an answer for not doing anything.......the world is not as easy. Sure the Russians won't like the Americans, the Israelis and the Europeans rushing into a market where they had a stranglehold but the Russians are not about to throwaway 10's of billions of dollars in revenue for some mythical geopolitical reasoning. Pakistan wil simpply not be able to match even a small percentage that India still offers Russia. I'm a realist, I don't think the Russians will worry too much about supplying Pakistan but they do know which side of the bread is buttered. Unless there is a major political rupture between India & Russia & I don't see that happening, there is very little chance of any change.
In any case, the proof of the pudding will always be in the eating. Guess we will have to both wait & watch to see if Pakistani dreams turn into reality....
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you....
kaykay
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ofcourse mate. 'That Guy' can hope. Anyway I just wanted to say that although we are getting some weapons from other countries, still we are either buying or co-developing Russian weapons worth many folds more than we use to do in past from Russia.
Echo_419
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Pakistan love to talk about some mysterious "geopoitics" as if it is an answer for not doing anything.......the world is not as easy. Sure the Russians won't like the Americans, the Israelis and the Europeans rushing into a market where they had a stranglehold but the Russians are not about to throwaway 10's of billions of dollars in revenue for some mythical geopolitical reasoning. Pakistan wil simpply not be able to match even a small percentage that India still offers Russia. I'm a realist, I don't think the Russians will worry too much about supplying Pakistan but they do know which side of the bread is buttered. Unless there is a major political rupture between India & Russia & I don't see that happening, there is very little chance of any change.
In any case, the proof of the pudding will always be in the eating. Guess we will have to both wait & watch to see if Pakistani dreams turn into reality....
Can they even Afford half the no of MI-17 we are buying from Russia
Also billions of dollars in JVs with the Russians
Apart from your paltry budget, India and Russia are strategic allies and We also connect in a way you should understand. Read this
http://Hindi-Russi Bhai Bhai is no relic of the past
Its around 6 am in the small village of Chittalancheri in Keralas Palakkad district. As the azaans of the local mosque give way to temple bells, Evgeny Kovalsky is being instructed by a local yoga teacher on how to perform a difficult asana. The 29-year old resident of the Russian Far Eastern region of Khabarovsk first came to India in 2010, when he was basically an adventure-tourist evading conscription. He spent months in the yoga centre in rural Kerala until he was hooked on to a simple and healthy lifestyle, which was diagonally opposite to his wild college days in Khabarovsk.
I found my way here, says Evgeny who came back to Palakkad to reconnect with his yoga teacher and to spread the message of friendship from Russia. This is a strong message that seems to have been forgotten at a time when student and cultural exchanges between Russia and India in no way compare to the heyday of Indo-Soviet Bonhomie. Whats changed since the 1970s and 80s is the fact that Russians and Indians are both more globally mobile and have formed large Diasporas in third countries.
Kharma Bhoomi
Read section: Karma Bhoomi
As immigrants often do, this new generation has had to try hard to fit into a new host society. This often leads to a degree of insecurity and a great need for belonging. So many Indians in western countries need to try and be as western as possible to fit in and the same goes for Russians. One Indian friend of mine, who belongs the pre-1990 university students generation and is a sworn Russophile, was disillusioned after meeting some Russians in Europe. He expected to meet the kind of Russians who used to visit Indian metro cities in the 1980s. He felt a certain degree of coldness and a lack of solidarity from the Russians he came across during his trip. My take on this was that these were mainly western-leaning Russians who at least in some way had given up on Russia itself. It didnt help that my friend didnt speak Russian, which is often the biggest ice-breaker.
When I narrated this experience to the Kerala-loving yogi from Khabarovsk, he touched up on a point that I tend to agree with. People with the traditional Russian soul and spiritual mindset connect with India on a greater plain, even if some of them are Christians, Evgeny, who has also stayed in an Orthodox Monastery for a year, said. In cities like Moscow, there is a small circle of Indologists, most of whom know so much about India and its customs and traditions, that it could put the average educated Indian to shame. But these arent elite circles by any means. If anything, our bonds are stronger now since theres no government propaganda, says Anna Popova, an Art of Living practitioner and Nicholas Roerich fan from Novosibirsk. Anna is an active member of a Russian blogging community dedicated to India.
пустым не оставлять!!
Russias age-old passion for yoga
As Evgeny Kovalsky travelled to Mumbai from Kerala, he carried with him a card from the Art of Living community in Khabarovsk. The message read: Hello My Dear Friends! We are your Russian friends, we wish you happiness, good luck, smiles, Love! Attached was a group photograph of the 30-odd members of the community in Khabarovsk, many of whom had visited Bangalore and met Shri Shri Ravi Shankar, the founder of the movement.
There are several Art of Living communities in Russia, to go with yoga clubs with affiliations to India, like the Iyengar movement, which has many followers in Moscow and other Russian cities. Its not just yoga and spirituality and most certainly not just the intellectuals in Russia who are once again looking at India. The fact that Goa is one of the most sought-after destinations for Russians is no secret and Kerala, with its backwaters and lagoons and ayurvedic spas is also going to witness tourist traffic in chartered aircraft from Russia. Sonu Nigams concert in Moscow last month attracted Hindi music fans to the city from different parts of Russia and so do cultural festivals with an Indian theme. Places that are as far away from each other as Komsomolsk-na-Amure and Voronezh get a significant audience for talks and exhibitions on the Roerich legacy.
Evgeny Kovalsky at a yoga centre in Kerala. Source: Personal Archive
With tourist visa procedures eased, this is actually the best time for Indo-Russian youth solidarity. Like I did though with my somewhat disillusioned Indian friend, I would like to throw caution to the wind. Since a lot of information on India and Indian culture is available in the Russian language, someone who is a fan of the country may not necessarily be fluent in English. Thats exactly where a good understanding of Russian comes handy. Besides that, knowing about Russian traditions, culture and history would also help make great inroads with those Russians who are passionate about India.
Note:
This publication along with the Russian Centre for Science and Culture in Delhi is organising an essay-writing competition. Tell us how the 21st century could shape up for India and Russia and Indo-Russian ties and you could win a Delhi-Moscow return air ticket.
Lostsoldier
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i think foreign aid is something like i dnt need to explain
nd secontdly wikipedia and google
That Guy
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See, this is the kind of response that makes me not take you seriously.
Pakistan love to talk about some mysterious "geopoitics" as if it is an answer for not doing anything.......the world is not as easy. Sure the Russians won't like the Americans, the Israelis and the Europeans rushing into a market where they had a stranglehold but the Russians are not about to throwaway 10's of billions of dollars in revenue for some mythical geopolitical reasoning. Pakistan wil simpply not be able to match even a small percentage that India still offers Russia. I'm a realist, I don't think the Russians will worry too much about supplying Pakistan but they do know which side of the bread is buttered. Unless there is a major political rupture between India & Russia & I don't see that happening, there is very little chance of any change.
In any case, the proof of the pudding will always be in the eating. Guess we will have to both wait & watch to see if Pakistani dreams turn into reality....
No, you're an optimist. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the world isn't black and white. Geopolitics is extremely complex, and not as easy as you claim it to be. There are many things to consider and you're blind if you think that Russia will continue to tolerate India moving towards the west.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating indeed, but I don't have to hold my breath for anything, and neither am I dream. Reality is reality, if you choose to ignore it and substitute your own version, that's your problem, not mine.
Yeti
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You are right in that geopolitics is very complex but it was Russia that nudged India to better ties with the United states in some respect because they knew without the US backing there was no way India would be allowed to join the nuclear club. Now the US is vex because after the 123 agreement was signed it was actually Russia that stood to gain the most from it, leaving America with a sour taste in the mouth.
I welcome Russia getting closer to Pakistan btw as I see it as a chance to better Indo-Pak relations and we can expand trade and security ties via the SCO it is a win win situation for everyone.
That Guy
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Already addressed you points, no need for me to repeat them. Look through the thread for the proper comment and use it as an answer to your points.
Haha, I see what you did there.
Sure, but considering India's shift, how long will that last? I mean, think about it. Be honest with yourself, do you really think the Russians are happy with India awarding no bid contracts to the US, when in the past, these sort of contracts would automatically go to the Russians?
That Guy
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I like your optimism, and agree with some of what you said. The only thing I would question is the Russians urging India to have better ties with the US. The US has stayed quiet about India's nuclear program because they want India to ally with them against China, and to keep Pakistan in check, Russia has little to do with this.
Yeti
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You see after the 123 agreement was signed (which would never be possible without the backing of US and it's pressure on key allies) the first thing India did was sign a nuclear accord with Russia and France. The Indian nuclear industry is set to be worth $100bn going forward in the next 15-20 years, it is a big pie and everyone wants a slice of it. There is some interesting articles online I will try to find for you on this subject.
acid rain
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The fact is Russia is not comfortable with Pakistan, one of the reasons being they know Pakistan is firmly ensconsed in the US camp from the start - its China which is nudging Russia forcefully towards Pakistan and the Russians are playing along because the chinese are standing behind russia in syria, iran and earlier libyia.
I am quite sceptical about the russia, china, pakistan nexus that most pakistanis dream of, neither any significant defense or geopolitical ties of any serious nature will fall in place between russia and pakistan.
Also to hope that bcos india's moving closer to US, russia will court pakistan to spite us is again a far stretch because we have multiple channels of communications and collaborations with the russians which can easily be used to make a point if any of us need to.
the russians and the americans are in different sort of confrontation mode and regional interests are given up or held on as the situation arises. If the russians are told not to engage the pakistanis and are given something else in return, they will drop the minor overtures immediately. Good relations with known opposite campers is not their goal, they are on a different plane alltogether....so dont keep your hopes high.
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