What's new

Words that BYTE

Let me be the devil's advocate here , I suggest that same treatment must apply to people disrespecting any religion be it Islam , Hinduism , Judaism , Christianity , Sikhism , etc .

Banning religious topics is not the solution, members need to learn to have a mature conversation or either have a thread ban or permanent ban .
 
. .
Should we take words seriously? Absolutely! And I will at the outset present the Word of Allah Himself, showing how important the choice of words is:

2:104
O you who have believed, say not [to Allah 's Messenger], "Ra'ina" but say, "Unthurna" and listen. And for the disbelievers is a painful punishment.

So yes, words matter, especially when the subject matter is religious. Now, unfortunately, there is a lot of blasphemous content on the internet which misguides people. It is perfectly OK for someone to quote such content, or even post something that comes to his own mind, to seek the opinion of Muslims. If his intention is to gain knowledge and understanding, then it is OK. But blatant denigration of anyone's religion is intolerable.

This raises the interesting case of Qadiyanis. Here is a 'so called' religion whose fundamental belief is blasphemous towards Islam, and who likewise consider it blasphemy if they are called out and negated. In such cases, the law of Pakistan should be applied. Qadiyanis are Kafir, and it should be permissible to counter their toxic machinations to spread disinformation but clearly and consistently calling them out as Kafir.

Similarly, valid religious scholars have opined that any Shia who adheres to certain heretic beliefs, such as the non-finality of Prophethood, or non-authenticity of Holy Quran, or the honor of the Mother of Momineen etc., such persons are also Kafir. Religious scholars have also categorized Bohris and Aga Khanis as Kafir. But the most interesting thing is that we don't find ANY of these sects causing ANY sort of friction on PDF. There is the usual sectarian hate spewed by both Sunnis and Shias, but you simply cannot blame them for any blasphemy.

These sects (Shias, Bohris, Aga Khanis) are a shining example of how NOT to cause trouble. Lessons should be learnt by others from their behaviour. And their behaviour provides us a benchmark against which we can measure others. WHY are certain demographics over represented in causing mischief? Of course 'mischief' depends on perspective. For Indians, Pakistanis are over represented in the reprehensible act of referring to excrement etc., while for Pakistanis, Indians are over represented in persistent mention of 'begging bowl', terrorism etc.

Interestingly, one usually doesn't associate Indians with religious blasphemy. Yes, there are notable instances, but it is not the norm. For me personally, I have often criticized Muslim Pakistani members for being 'irreligious', 'secular', and tarnishing the true image of Islam.

Regardless, if we want to have a productive discussion, blasphemy of religion MUST be banned. I would personally go one step forward and say religious discussion should be strictly banned - either completely, or it should be strictly restricted to one particular section, and even then blasphemy MUST NOT be allowed. This is a defence forum, and discussion should take place based on facts, figures, logic, and beliefs/intuition that either arise out of vast experience, or from keen understanding of facts, figures, and logic.

If these rules are adhered to, there is no reason why any one particular demographic should be banned. As someone already said, keep you friends close, and your enemy closer. It is important to gain a perspective of the enemy, and let the enemy act as devil's advocate. Let them force us to present logic, and reasoning, but in such presentation we learn about our own blind spots.

And while we are on the topic of bans, off topic discussions MUST be deleted and persistent offenders MUST be banned. This would go a long way in improving the quality of the forum.
 
.
Being a silent reader and occasional contributor to this forum, I would say that the forum urgently need to get rid of few agent provocateur and haters. Reading their posts for many years, it is very evident that the sole purpose of their presence here is to show their hatred towards Pakistanis in general and Muslims in particular. Two particular examples are this "Cheers, Doc" (@padamchen ) and the @Solomon2 dude.

Go through their posts to get an idea. "Cheers, Doc" becomes Parsi with one nick and a Hindu with another one. And all he does is throw not-so-hidden slurs and insults against Pakistanis and Islam calling them all sorts of derogatory names. Whereas that Solomon2 dude would always find few things (mostly out of context) which show Pakistan in bad light and torment its image and would NEVER answer to any questions when confronted by facts (e.g. human rights violations of innocent Jews in Israel who are thrown into jail for merely expressing their opinion etc).

The question is: Why this forum needs such "contributors"? Why are they not permanently banned and allowed to spread their hatred and negative propaganda? What


That Pakistanis and our neighbors from the East hold different views of each other is a norm and nothing so special. Most of the time we can get along with each other quite well (especially when abroad). And I know it for a fact that Pakistanis are one of the most tolerant nations towards foreigners.
So it is understandable that they are tolerated and given far more freedom to express themselves than if opposite would be the case (e.g. Pakistanis on Indian forums).

So to sum up, my two cents:
1) Indians or anyone else should be welcome to participate
2) A little trolling on relevant sections as long as it remains in the grey area could be tolerated
3) The permanent trouble makers, as described above should be permanently banned and not allowed to come to this forum with any other nick.

Thanks and cheers! :-)
 
.
What are really the advantages of having Indian members on this forum that is based around the military and safety of Pakistan, allowing them membership and then debating issues with them?
What are the disadvantages (leaving aside trolls)?.. more propogation of hatred?

Not just advantages or disadvantages to Pakistanis and their future ideals and thoughts but also to Indians too. There is a human element to both and it needs to be looked at.

Perhaps if a vote or majority direction is taken then a petition can be made to push whatever proposal it is. Be it a change in attitudes of both engaging parties or maybe a complete cessation of Indian membership to this forum; leaving all actual discussion to hopefully less “defense” inclined platforms?? Would it make sense to have a platform dedicated to such engagements with a less “hostile” look?
I would try keep my post short but say with all honesty

First of all its not about ceasing the Indian or Pakistani memberships its about common decency the decorum of the forum if anyone irrespective of his/her nationality does not have this he/she should not be allowed to be the member of the forum, We should not allow the whole forum to become the hostage of VICTIMHOOD SYNDROME of one community or the other.

Now second thing Indian members who visit this forum as guest should adopt behaviour of a CULTURED GUEST the not as Obnoxious Mob some of them may be good and knowledgeable but what is the benefit of them having here if they have to repeat the same version as their troll brigade .....??? They could debate in articulated manner but how many of them are doing this ....???

I still remember Syed Ali a professor and research supervisor in one of the top university of Malaysia was demoted from TT rank just because he gave a negative rating to an Indian member I am mentioning this because I want to give a clear example of fair play and level playing field this forum has granted to Indian members, but even after this if they feel that they are alienated and targeted because of their nationality than this is nothing but an unnecessary display of VICTIM CARD and as I said earlier and repeat again We should not allow the whole forum to become the hostage of VICTIMHOOD SYNDROME

At the end I would say it again Indians are WELCOMED AS GUEST not as OBNOXIOUS MOB and COMMON DECENCY is required by everyone does not matter he or she belong which ever community or nationality
 
.
I would try keep my post short but say with all honesty

First of all its not about ceasing the Indian or Pakistani memberships its about common decency the decorum of the forum if anyone irrespective of his/her nationality does not have this he/she should not be allowed to be the member of the forum, We should not allow the whole forum to become the hostage of VICTIMHOOD SYNDROME of one community or the other.

Now second thing Indian members who visit this forum as guest should adopt behaviour of a CULTURED GUEST the not as Obnoxious Mob some of them may be good and knowledgeable but what is the benefit of them having here if they have to repeat the same version as their troll brigade .....??? They could debate in articulated manner but how many of them are doing this ....???

I still remember Syed Ali a professor and research supervisor in one of the top university of Malaysia was demoted from TT rank just because he gave a negative rating to an Indian member I am mentioning this because I want to give a clear example of fair play and level playing field this forum has granted to Indian members, but even after this if they feel that they are alienated and targeted because of their nationality than this is nothing but an unnecessary display of VICTIM CARD and as I said earlier and repeat again We should not allow the whole forum to become the hostage of VICTIMHOOD SYNDROME

At the end I would say it again Indians are WELCOMED AS GUEST not as OBNOXIOUS MOB and COMMON DECENCY is required by everyone does not matter he or she belong which ever community or nationality

Since we are naming names, Syed Ali always came across as a India and Indian/Hindu hating xenophobic bigot.

I'm personally thrilled that I do not have to read his posts here anymore.

Being a professor is no big shakes. Most guys our age into academics are at Prof or Assoc. Prof grades. Its usually a tenure thing.

Just my opinion, as everyone else's.

Cheers, Doc
 
.
Let me be the devil's advocate here , I suggest that same treatment must apply to people disrespecting any religion be it Islam , Hinduism , Judaism , Christianity , Sikhism , etc .

Banning religious topics is not the solution, members need to learn to have a mature conversation or either have a thread ban or permanent ban .
I second your suggestion. We are here to learn, not convert each other. Diversity of opinion is what keeps bringing most of us to this forum. Some of the local members use this forums affiliation with Pakistan as a tool to further their agendas/hate speech which is despicable. Difference of opinion is responded with insults to ones religion/culture. All kinds of personal attacks should result in permanent ban, indiscriminately.
 
.
Since we are naming names, Syed Ali always came across as a India and Indian/Hindu hating xenophobic bigot.

I'm personally thrilled that I do not have to read his posts here anymore.
again as I said display of victim hood mentality, have I mention how many times this bigotry was displayed by the other side ..... ???

Even the numbers plan attacks of provocations and abuses by a certain community against the mods and administrator of this forum ..... ??? and then claims of suppression by the same community at this forum ....???
 
Last edited:
.
again as I said display of victim hood mentality, have I mention who many times this bigotry was displayed by the other side ..... ???

Even the numbers plan attacks of provocations and abuses by a certain community against the mods and administrator of this forum ..... ??? and then claims of suppression by the same community at this forum ....???

Buddy seriously.

Find me one Indian who liked that guy.

Some of you seem to owe him great fealty and respect. I appreciate your right to differ with us on that.

Cheers, Doc
 
.
People using this forum for very bad things …… For their own propaganda against Islam and Pakistan...…. Hate mongers spreading hate against Islam , Pakistan and culture of Pakistan and when you counter them you will get ban or post delete (edit) or mods open up dictionaries and culprit walk free as honorable member .
Some Religious Sects , ethnicities and countries getting extra privileges ask @Nilgiri what is happening in BD section... Daily abuses for Pakistan and even India . I am saying this after my long experience on PDF(please add silent reader)
that Solomn guy he never said any thing positive about Islam or Pakistan...…. In Iran section some Irani member crossed all the limits about Arabs and Pakistan and Sunni Sect ……… but no action.
@django left only because of no action...…………. I am next inline...……….. One cannot do that for long...…… People like me come on forum like this for information , knowledge and to shear their views or news..... Not for seeing and reading those bad things and propaganda .
I lost my only friend in all this @django Miss you bro. and sorry I was not their when you tagged me.

Let me be the devil's advocate here , I suggest that same treatment must apply to people disrespecting any religion be it Islam , Hinduism , Judaism , Christianity , Sikhism , etc .

Banning religious topics is not the solution, members need to learn to have a mature conversation or either have a thread ban or permanent ban .
That will be very hard...……… What I saw so far it was Aust who started abusing first out of blue.... Best is ban religious discussions .
 
Last edited:
.
Buddy seriously.

Find me one Indian who liked that guy.
Find me one Indian who like me .....
Some of you seem to owe him great fealty and respect.
This is not the matter of discussion here some may or may not like him its irrelevant ..... his example was quoted just because
- it was relevant to the current event as he was in the same league as @AUSTERLITZ and his act was much less in nature
- Secondly as an Explicit Display of fair play by forum management towards Indian members
and have already said this thing in my post plz read it again below
I still remember Syed Ali a professor and research supervisor in one of the top university of Malaysia was demoted from TT rank just because he gave a negative rating to an Indian member I am mentioning this because I want to give a clear example of fair play and level playing field this forum has granted to Indian members,
 
.
I second your suggestion. We are here to learn, not convert each other. Diversity of opinion is what keeps bringing most of us to this forum. Some of the local members use this forums affiliation with Pakistan as a tool to further their agendas/hate speech which is despicable. Difference of opinion is responded with insults to ones religion/culture. All kinds of personal attacks should result in permanent ban, indiscriminately.

There is no point in converting anyone or try to act like Umar or Khalid on Online forums .. for every Insult we can't pull out our swords, people who opens up religious related threads must know who they are going to tag (people they can trust to be mature enough to discuss without loosing their marbles ) .

If i must try to convert someone to Islam, It would be my Friend @Joe Shearer @Nilgiri , perhaps i am already doing Wird of Ayatul Kursi on them for some time :-):devil:
 
. .
I think we should only keep the intelligent Indians on the forum and kick out all the nasty Indians, trolls and all, who support terrorism in Pakistan or anti-Pakistan activities. Is there a way of vetting them to ascertain that they are legitimately interested in defense matters and not just to instigate dispute and dissension?

PDF a should have time out option for the MODs to dampen any crude or heated exchanges. I don't think the 3 strikes thing is good. When our soldiers are being murdered and our country is being threatened, yes our emotions are going to rise and we may show uncontrollable anger by a small trigger.

How about only allowing Indian members who have a Facebook or LinkedIn page?
Who decides? The MODS people were calling incompetent yesterday? The now dubious TT members? The webmaster? Or the very trolls we're trying to avoid?

I'm all for getting rid of trolls and instigators but why restrict it to Indians? Unless you're simply trying to cull one group that represents just half the problem.
 
.
2) Even more bothersome is the fact that other members have been handed out bans or punished in other ways for far less.
--> This makes ppl even more uneasy bcuz it seems like favoritism. Punishment/bans should be handed out across the board for any violations.
Another thing is some members like @PAKISTANFOREVER @Areesh @Sully3 makes very offensive remarks about others. They get banned, returns and does the same thing. Moderators have failed to resolve this issue. It's hard to keep cool interacting with them.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom