With eye on exports, Tejas on display in Bahrain air show

[Desertfalcon]

Gripen NG doesn't have the RM12 anymore and uses the same GE 414G that LCA MK2 will have as well and they exported it to Switzerland and Brazil.

Right. It depends where the Tejas might be exporting to + the GE engines may be a stop gap but what will a future Kaveri engine do to the unit cost?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I feel many African Nations would go for the LCA if marketed well. But with it delayed so badly, our own Aircraft will take up all the order-books for the next decade.

What African nations can afford a $26 million USD fighter? Not many mate. And the best advertisment for the LCA would be its service in the IAF-a globally respected AF, en masse. I don't think capcity is an issue, if an export order came through by hook or by crook the order would be fulfilled.

Right. It depends where the Tejas might be exporting to + the GE engines may be a stop gap but what will a future Kaveri engine do to the unit cost?

The Kaveri is a distant, distant hope. The GE-F414-INS6 is the engine of the MK.2- it's not a stop-gap anymore, this is the engine the MK.2 is being designed around. AFAIK the Kaveri team is now focusing on using the Kaveri to power India's next-gen UCAVs.

 

[sancho]

And it comes with the next question, Gripen has already occupied LCA market, Where LCA would be exported now?

The Gripen C/D production line is closed, the Swedes only lease or sell 2nd hand fighters of their air force at lower rates, that they can't afford anymore. The Gripen E will come only by 2018, pretty much at the same time LCA MK2 is expected, so in theory Gripen currently can't compete LCA MK1, but exports at this stage of development are not likely. The future market however includes F16 and Mirage customers, just like Mig 21/29 customers. So there is a market to sell LCA for sure, especially with costs below the Gripen E, but it all depends on when the requirement for Indian forces will be finished, since that will have more priority than exports.

@sancho

Gripen NG is not in service yet dont you know?

And what has that to do with the exports with an US engine? You claim was that Gripen doesn't have an issue because the RM12 is a JV and I showed you that is has no issue even with a US engine and the same applies to LCA.

GE engine as per al Indian sources is a stop gap measure, if this changes, HAL will ride on a thin rope when it comes to export orders, Yanks will not allow it. India is not Sweden you know

And again, what has that to do with exports? The US engines are considered to be a stopgap till Kaveri is developed, but that doesn't mean we couldn't export LCA with the US engine right? You just claim we can't but don't really have a point here and YES, India is not Sweden, that's why we forced the US for open regrets, to reduce restrictions, customisations of US aircrafts and reduced costs, because India is by far not a political low weight. So please, stop these cheap accusations.

 

[Indischer]

What African nations can afford a $26 million USD fighter? Not many mate. And the best advertisment for the LCA would be its service in the IAF-a globally respected AF, en masse. I don't think capcity is an issue, if an export order came through by hook or by crook the order would be fulfilled.


The Kaveri is a distant, distant hope. The GE-F414-INS6 is the engine of the MK.2- it's not a stop-gap anymore, this is the engine the MK.2 is being designed around. AFAIK the Kaveri team is now focusing on using the Kaveri to power India's next-gen UCAVs.

I had Nations like Kenya, Nigeria, Uganda, Ethiopia etc in mind. They aren't very small economies, and can afford a squadron or two of multirole aircraft. Importantly,they need a squadron or two of such aircraft.

 

[sancho]

Right. It depends where the Tejas might be exporting to + the GE engines may be a stop gap but what will a future Kaveri engine do to the unit cost?

Most likely will bring down the costs, secure cheaper spare supply and upgrades, but that will be seen when that happens.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I had Nations like Kenya, Nigeria, Uganda, Ethiopia etc in mind. They aren't very small economies, and can afford a squadron or two of multirole aircraft. Importantly,they need a squadron or two of such aircraft.

Sure, but then does India have a presenc eon the global defence market to sell fighters like this? I don't think so.

Exactly the reason @sancho sir, why India NEEDS to get exposure at events like Bahrain and take "eye-catching" equipement like the CABS AWACS.

 

[Dazzler]

And what has that to do with the exports with an US engine? You claim was that Gripen doesn't have an issue because the RM12 is a JV and I showed you that is has no issue even with a US engine and the same applies to LCA.



And again, what has that to do with exports? The US engines are considered to be a stopgap till Kaveri is developed, but that doesn't mean we couldn't export LCA with the US engine right? You just claim we can't but don't really have a point here and YES, India is not Sweden, that's why we forced the US for open regrets, to reduce restrictions, customisations of US aircrafts and reduced costs, because India is by far not a political low weight. So please, stop these cheap accusations.

it means India cannot export LCA till Kaveri engine is available, not with GE 404/414s

 

[Kaniska]

From technical POV, it certainly have the potential, but politically we need another President from Army to make it a success, until than you can sell. to US.

...

Your Musharaf was rocking from the foreign policy and economic front..

 

[Indischer]

Sure, but then does India have a presenc eon the global defence market to sell fighters like this? I don't think so.

Exactly the reason @sancho sir, why India NEEDS to get exposure at events like Bahrain and take "eye-catching" equipement like the CABS AWACS.

Perhaps not aircraft at least...but what's the harm in trying to cozy up to a few democracies in Africa. I feel if India doesn't look to generate profits out of such deals from the very beginning, it may be possible to find a foothold somewhere.

 

[sancho]

Exactly the reason @sancho sir, why India NEEDS to get exposure at events like Bahrain and take "eye-catching" equipement like the CABS AWACS.

Please look at the pics of the aircraft and tell me what equipment of CABS do you see? Mock up of a radar antenna, mock up of a SATCOM system, EWS mainly sourced from different European partners and all that on a Brazilian aircraft. So what are we "eye-catching" especially with the flight display? That's just plain nonsens!
As I said before, they could had displayed models of the aircraft with the antennas they will add, "they" could display mock ups of the radar or SATCOM systems "they" developed, "they" can show slided or videos of the capabilities of the systems "they" have developed...all that would had been far cheaper and way more useful to show potential customers DRDOs development capabilities!

it means India cannot export LCA till Kaveri engine is available, not with GE 404/414s

According to your belive only. So lets leave it at that until you guys can come up with some real stuff (and if you didn't noticed, I'm not going to talk about export restritions of fighters with Russian engines).

 

[Abingdonboy]

@sancho @Water Car Engineer ^^ The aircraft seems bristling with sensors...is this indicative of greater capabilities compared to the Erieye or is it just that India failed to miniaturize the whole system and hence the platform had to be modified substantially?

Some of them are for airborne detection but most of them (apart from the main mast) are for the defensive suite and comns:

 

[sancho]

Perhaps not aircraft at least...but what's the harm in trying to cozy up to a few democracies in Africa. I feel if India doesn't look to generate profits out of such deals from the very beginning, it may be possible to find a foothold somewhere.

LCA was never intended to generate profits, but to build up an indigenous aero industry, that can develop and produce such fighters and systems, mainly for our own requirements. Exports are additional chances, but we are still far away from that.
Let the induction begin, the serial production ramp up and the capabilities increase, that will give the fighter export potential. What gave the Su 30 the best PR and attention? The operational use in IAF, not Russians advertising the fighter at air shows, the latter is what they are doing with the Su 34 and 35 for a decade now and still couldn't find an export customer, while even they now buy MKI varients!

 

[Indischer]

@sancho @Abingdonboy What's a mission system antenna? Hadn't heard of it before.

 

[Dazzler]

Please look at the pics of the aircraft and tell me what equipment of CABS do you see? Mock up of a radar antenna, mock up of a SATCOM system, EWS mainly sourced from different European partners and all that on a Brazilian aircraft. So what are we "eye-catching" especially with the flight display? That's just plain nonsens!
As I said before, they could had displayed models of the aircraft with the antennas they will add, "they" could display mock ups of the radar or SATCOM systems "they" developed, "they" can show slided or videos of the capabilities of the systems "they" have developed...all that would had been far cheaper and way more useful to show potential customers DRDOs development capabilities!



According to your belive only. So lets leave it at that until you guys can come up with some real stuff (and if you didn't noticed, I'm not going to talk about export restritions of fighters with Russian engines).

Common mate, there is no intent it my argument you know it, i am just familiar with Yanki practice. They didnt give engine license manufacturing rights to even some of their closest allies including Turkey for PW and GEs for their F-16s (which they make under license for decades) so unless India is willing to go with a joint venture/ license manufacturing of GE engines, dont think its going to happen.

to gain exports with GE engine, they will make sure to extract more money out of HAL and sign a contract with $$$ going in their pocket which will escalate the price more than what HAL desires. Even then there are restrictions and politics involved !

The worst part about american equipment that is a norm by now, they come with a web of strings around it. It will also dent the Kaveri project to a great deal, if it survived at all.

 

[Chronos]

Perhaps not aircraft at least...but what's the harm in trying to cozy up to a few democracies in Africa. I feel if India doesn't look to generate profits out of such deals from the very beginning, it may be possible to find a foothold somewhere.

I think a stable society is what is needed first. Rwandan genocide IMO, is one of the most talked about extermination pogroms.

Yet, it experiences relative peace. Poverty is endemic, And Mr. Kagame has grown paranoid over the years and projected himself as the barrier that holds back Hutsis and Tutsis slaughtering each other, and of interference in the Congo.

But still....