What's new

With eye on Beijing, US signals ‘full embrace’ of Delhi

Its true USA have moved away from the era of India-Pakistan status quo and moved to offer goodies.

But then, Issues such as USA blocking Israeli ASEA radar, Arrow missile sales makes India wonder

Was this just to drive away Israel from India's arms market where is USA is competitor or can USA be trusted at all?

That didn't stop India from looking somewhere else did it? We blocked Israel from making AWACs for the Chinese military. China decided to another path.

And each President has different policies or similar but doesn't hurt to try.

I was talking about the 'full embrace' situation. Indian policymakers want India to be like france not UK and I tend to agree with them.
Unfortunately we dont have the capability of french, hence will have to be humble and seek friendship of both russia and USA.

Now even in this balancing act, the tilt will always be towards russia simply because the relation is longer and has proved to be quite durable.
Indo american relationship requires some time to mature.

Why not full embrace of both countries? Russia has no reason to unsettle their good relationship with India right now, and you have an opportunity to work with U.S. Its not like you can't have no more than one friend or ally.

After all, did the Russians punish the Indians for going for the C17, Apache, Chinook?
 
.
That didn't stop India from looking somewhere else did it? We blocked Israel from making AWACs for the Chinese military. China decided to another path.

And each President has different policies or similar but doesn't hurt to try.



Why not full embrace of both countries? Russia has no reason to unsettle their good relationship with India right now, and you have an opportunity to work with U.S. Its not like you can't have no more than one friend or ally.

After all, did the Russians punish the Indians for going for the C17, Apache, Chinook?
It will be impossible to 'fully embrace' both countries, which seek to undermine each other's influence.
The reason russians have not unsettled the relationship because we have maintained safe distance from US.

BTW, punish does not have to be cutting off relation, it can be a small step like selling frontline jets to china to show her displeasure.(or even pakistan: what stops russia from selling her harware?)
I would love to believe that India is in the bargining position in all her relationships, but thats hardly the case.
Russia is flush with oil money, and Indian defence market cannot buy everything.
 
.
We should keep in mind that we share borders with China, not US. They are our neighbors and we can have cooperation at many levels too. So better if we make our own place and keep relations better with both US and China. US has ditched Philippines and Vietnam in middle during recent spats of these countries with China.

It would bad decision if we move into US camp. We should rather follow our independent Foreign Policy like we have been following in last few decades.

Yes, but in today's globalized world things like "shairing border" dosent mean anything. Afghanistan was having friendly relation with all its neighbors but not with US. Even then the country was destroyed. India has to be very opportunistic. Any nation in India's neighbor, stronger than India itself, is not good for India. But every nation must be stable enough in our neighborhood. I personally believe, China will remain engage in tibet as long as China remains powerful than India
 
.
Actually I believe it would go the opposite since India can look somewhere else if Russia were to delay the projects or negotiate terms that are unacceptable. Russia is not in that position since they don't have that kind of monopoly. They be begging to be on India's good side.

International relations don't change overnight. It need time to build trust. And history of USA is totally against it. On other hand Indo-Russian relation history is time proven even though Russian arm business is making all kinda problems for Indian forces. Still Russia is a trusted ally and offer India what it need

On other hand USA is very protective of its tech. So it will be very hard for USA to fill up Russian shoe.

So finally Indian leadership will welcome positive Indo-US relations so as Indo-Sino relations. And Indo-Russian relations will always be above these two.
India don't want any conflict with anybody so it will not be a part of any "against" block. But India surely be prepared to counter any threat to its National security by all means available. And this will be a key for USA. If USA can provide India the top notch tech and weapons it will serve two objectives in one move 1. Much needed business 2. Natural strengthing the counter weight to China

So ball is actually in USA's court. And question is can they give such things to a country which will not be their globle lieutent ???
 
.
It will be impossible to 'fully embrace' both countries, which seek to undermine each other's influence.
The reason russians have not unsettled the relationship because we have maintained safe distance from US.

BTW, punish does not have to be cutting off relation, it can be a small step like selling frontline jets to china to show her displeasure.
I would love to believe that India is in the bargining position in all her relationships, but thats hardly the case.

From the news I've seen the Russians are not selling advance fighters to China since China are making their own.
 
.
International relations don't change overnight. It need time to build trust. And history of USA is totally against it. On other hand Indo-Russian relation history is time proven even though Russian arm business is making all kinda problems for Indian forces. Still Russia is a trusted ally and offer India what it need

On other hand USA is very protective of its tech. So it will be very hard for USA to fill up Russian shoe.

So finally Indian leadership will welcome positive Indo-US relations so as Indo-Sino relations. And Indo-Russian relations will always be above these two.
India don't want any conflict with anybody so it will not be a part of any "against" block. But India surely be prepared to counter any threat to its National security by all means available. And this will be a key for USA. If USA can provide India the top notch tech and weapons it will serve two objectives in one move 1. Much needed business 2. Natural strengthing the counter weight to China

So ball is actually in USA's court. And question is can they give such things to a country which will not be their globle lieutent ???

From what you seen so far, did the U.S. asked India to be its counterweight to China when it sold the Apaches, Chinooks, C17s, Poseidon?
 
.
We should keep in mind that we share borders with China, not US. They are our neighbors and we can have cooperation at many levels too. So better if we make our own place and keep relations better with both US and China. US has ditched Philippines and Vietnam in middle during recent spats of these countries with China.

It would bad decision if we move into US camp. We should rather follow our independent Foreign Policy like we have been following in last few decades.

We share borders with China NOT USA. - true but it's China which is claiming entire state of India and NOT USA.

They are our neighbours can be have to cooperate - true. But cooperation isn't one way process. They are arming Pak to teeth just to keep India in check. Is that a cooperation ???
We definatly don't want a war with anyone but that doesn't mean we should be under prepared. We learned our lesson in 1962

I am not advocating Indo-US tie up. But we should not step back from the interests of our national security just cuz our neighbours don't feel good about it specially those neighbours which had started and fought the wars against our country

Independant policy is good no doubt but we will not be able to do it for a long time if China and India relations don't improve and we can't solve the border dispute.

Recent change or softness in Chinese behaviour is just to keep everything clam till SCS problem is solved the day they solve it they will be locking horns with us. So it's kinda treaky.
India should strengthen Indo-Russian friendship and make good relations with China and USA. And most of all should prepare itself for worst conditions.
 
.
From what you seen so far, did the U.S. asked India to be its counterweight to China when it sold the Apaches, Chinooks, C17s, Poseidon?

USA didn't ask but did exactly what needed :D
It's called win win situation. Billion doller business plus the strategic point scored. it's similar to the thing china do to Pak without asking them to counter weight anything.

And didn't you agree India as a strong milletry power will keep things in Asia in check ??? Isn't exactly what USA wants ???
Right now USA is thinking democratic power is better than a Comunist power. Isnt it ???
 
.
The U.S. manufacturing sector needs India's market potential, especially India's defense procurements.

Embracing US by India will surely compel Russia to explore new markets and allies to her goodies as well as to offset any strategic imbalance.
 
.
But then, Issues such as USA blocking Israeli ASEA radar, Arrow missile sales makes India wonder

Was this just to drive away Israel from India's arms market where is USA is competitor or can USA be trusted at all?


The Israeli AESA radar (for the Gripen) was probably on commercial considerations, the Arrow may also be the same though one can't be really sure. It started initially as denial on technology & capability grounds but since the U.s. was willing to offer the Patriot system, it probably became a commercial consideration even there. In any case, India & Israel usually work around these things regardless of what the U.s. might publicly say.

Embracing US by India will surely compel Russia to explore new markets and allies to her goodies as well as to offset any strategic imbalance.

Possible but any such embrace of Pakistan would still be a limited exercise since India would still be Russia's No.1 client & Pakistan itself does not have enough money to make Russia seriously think of going down that route fully. Transport aircraft & helicopters may be the sum total on offer. India could learn to live with that.
 
.
WASHINGTON: President Obama's top national security adviser said on Thursday that the United States has "given a full embrace of India's rise," leaving little doubt that Washington sees New Delhi as a strategic counterweight to Beijing regardless of what China, India itself, and the rest of the world thinks of the idea and their response to it.

The exuberant phrasing from national security advisor Tom Donilon, coming just ahead of the President's first foray abroad (to South East Asia) after his re-election, spilled out in response to a searching question from an Indonesian diplomat who wondered about the evolving US relationship with India and China, and why in his speech, Donilon had described India as a strategic partner but not China.

"There's more of an element of competition when you described your relationship with China and there's nothing like that when you describe your relationship with India. Is it too much for us in Southeast Asia, for example, to expect that one day there will be a strategic partnership between US and China?" the diplomat, Indonesia's ambassador to US Dino Patti Djalal, asked after a Donilon speech in which he used the familiar expression of India as America's strategic partner for the 21st century.

In his reply, Donilon stepped it up a notch. "With respect to India, we have given a full embrace of India's rise. The President went to India on a three-day trip, as you know, and stood beneath the picture of Mahatma Gandhi, and called for India's membership in a reformed Security Council," he told the gathering of policy wonks at the Center for Strategic and International studies.

"It's a full embrace of India's rise as a partner," he repeated. "And again, as two of the most important democracies in the world, it's an important strategic thrust for us as well."

Donilon agreed that the US relationship with China is full of challenges, but said Washington is trying to build a stable, productive, constructive relationship with Beijing that can accommodate elements of competition.

"We're trying to build a relationship between China and the United States against a backdrop of theoreticians who say that this is not possible to do; that history would point you to the inevitability of conflict between a rising power and a status quo power," news agencies quoted Donilon as saying.

"We don't believe that international relations is some subset of physics. There is human agency and leadership involved here, and that's what we're trying to do, to build this out in the most constructive and positive, productive relationship that we can," he added.

The elaborate and nuanced remarks from the top national security official came even as President Obama embarks on a landmark visit to Burma, the first by a US President, this weekend. He will meet Burma's celebrated leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who would have returned from New Delhi by then. From Burma, he will go to Thailand and Cambodia, where he will attend the Asean summit, as part of a continuing US effort to project itself as an Asia-Pacific power that will not cede influence to China as it builds on old alliances and new.

source

whats your opinion on this ?

Should India try to squeeze all it can get in terms of high tech defd ence deals ,investments etc or India should take her steps very cautiously ????

Indians be careful USA candies an lollies always cause cancer history is witness of that fact, every country USA is kind too is in a mess, look at your neighbour pakistan.
 
.
Possible but any such embrace of Pakistan would still be a limited exercise since India would still be Russia's No.1 client & Pakistan itself does not have enough money to make Russia seriously think of going down that route fully. Transport aircraft & helicopters may be the sum total on offer. India could learn to live with that.

As a part of strategy to secure its interests in Central Asia, Russia has been attempting to foster a relationship with Pakistan and the upturn in Russia-Pakistan ties from next-to-nothing is one of the more remarkable shifts playing out in South Asia.
Its true that relationship between India and Russia continues to remain strong, largely underpinned by enduring military sales to India. And in that regard India can manipulate its position against any sophisticated military sale to Pakistan. But it will remain on India's loyalty ... to remain an honest client. For the time being, We Pakistanis look forward the Russian investment in our crippling energy sector.
 
.
As a part of strategy to secure its interests in Central Asia, Russia has been attempting to foster a relationship with Pakistan and the upturn in Russia-Pakistan ties from next-to-nothing is one of the more remarkable shifts playing out in South Asia.
Its true that relationship between India and Russia continues to remain strong, largely underpinned by enduring military sales to India. And in that regard India can manipulate its position against any sophisticated military sale to Pakistan. But it will remain on India's loyalty ... to remain an honest client. For the time being, We Pakistanis look forward the Russian investment in our crippling energy sector.

It will be a good strategic move but I don't think Russia will go for it. As Russia itself is looking for investors in its own economy. It will be a bad idea to invest in a Pak which is not stable specially when Russian economy isn't doing good either
 
. .
I would rather not use Pakistan as an example. Pakistan is more a result of Gulf Arab diplomatic relations, Syria is another.

pakistanis are in this mess cause they becoe too emotional when it comes to ummah and stuffs.. It is the center of J!had! experiements in the world..
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom