Will Waziristan break Pakistan's back?

[haviZsultan]

Bhangra, please grow up. The soldiers have been found! Read this:

About 100 Pakistani soldiers who were missing and feared captured by pro-Taleban militants have been found, the army says.

The militants had claimed they had seized 300 men in south Waziristan, but the military said the soldiers in the convoy which had lost contact were sheltering in a valley during a storm and would return to base on Friday.

"There is no suggestion of kidnapping or fighting," Major General Waheed Arshad told reporters.

A militant group had said it had taken the troops because the government was not honouring a recent peace deal.

There has been rising violence in the region in recent months, with at least 60 soldiers and 250 militants killed.

Several peace deals between the government and rebels have collapsed. US officials have described the tribal areas near the Afghan border as an al-Qaeda safe haven.

MBA/RA

Press TV

What opportunists! I wonder how you mod guys deal with this every single day!!!

 

[bhangra12345]

Pakistan troops still 'stranded' in tribal area says army
AFP

August 31, 2007

WANA, Pakistan -- Around 100 Pakistani soldiers remained stranded in a remote tribal region near the Afghan border Friday, amid a dispute between Islamic militants and tribesmen, officials said.

The insurgents wanted to surround the military convoy, while tribesmen were trying to persuade them to let the troops return unharmed from South Waziristan, the army said.

"The troops have not been able to leave the area because there is a dispute between local tribesmen and militants who wanted to surround the soldiers," top military spokesman Major General Waheed Arshad said, adding the troops had wanted to avoid the use of force. He denied reports they had been kidnapped.

Arshad said the poor weather conditions that forced the convoy to set up camp in the area were continuing, but the troops would leave once the tribal groups reached an agreement.

The soldiers were traveling from South Waziristan district to neighboring North Waziristan when they lost contact with army headquarters, sparking fears they had been abducted by militants.

The border area is a known hub of Taliban- and Al Qaeda-linked militants, engaged in a bloody confrontation with tens of thousands of troops deployed in the region to hunt them down since 2002.

Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has been under pressure to crack down on militancy in the restive frontier region, where US officials say Al Qaeda's leadership has regrouped.

Arshad said late Thursday the convoy was surrounded by local villagers who thought the soldiers were preparing to launch an attack, triggering a tense standoff, but that the soldiers were safe.

Concerns for the troops come after militants in South Waziristan Tuesday released 19 Pakistani soldiers who were abducted earlier this month. One of those soldiers was beheaded on video by a teenage boy August 14.

A series of deadly Islamist attacks have rocked Pakistan since the military's storming of the hard-line Red Mosque in Islamabad last month. More than 100 people were killed in the raid on the pro-Taliban mosque.

Military officials said 60 soldiers and 250 militants had been killed in violence in little more than a month.

Pakistan troops still 'stranded' in tribal area says army - Region - Middle East Times

What the hell does the bolded part mean for you-dimension117? Also note it is not an anonymous source.

and read what I write. Repeating it and explaining it.

If you are in the army and your platoon goes missing for a day during semi-peace time operation, and there is a possibility of bad weather messing up their schedule, do you publicize it to the media? You wont, you will wait for the details. This is what I said.

I am not able to clearly understand what the spokesman is trying to say in the second bolded paragraph. "The weather is bad, but that is not what is stopping them. It is the tribals" is my explanation.

 

[blain2]

Yes it is the tribals (mehsud tribe and not Taliban)...they were afraid that the Army units were in their area to launch an operation thus they surrounded them. Hopefully this issue will be resolved amicably without any loss of life.

Supposedly there is something going on with the more militant Taliban and the rest of the tribals.

 

[bhangra12345]

Yes it is the tribals (mehsud tribe and not Taliban)...they were afraid that the Army units were in their area to launch an operation thus they surrounded them. Hopefully this issue will be resolved amicably without any loss of life.

Supposedly there is something going on with the more militant Taliban and the rest of the tribals.

So basically you are saying that the weather is a coverup? more as an alibi of sort?

Can any from the army just give an indication how many tribal soldiers will be required to corner 100 soldiers? Assumption: terrain favours tribals.

 

[blain2]

So basically you are saying that the weather is a coverup? more as an alibi of sort?

Can any from the army just give an indication how many tribal soldiers will be required to corner 100 soldiers? Assumption: terrain favours tribals.

No bad weather may be hampering communications and travel as possible negotiations may be going on. Not ruling anything out at this time.

I have read reports of the tribals being in the 300-400 numbers. Its not that easy to surround a compliment of 100 troops with their assorted weaponry.

 

[GreenMan]

Pakistani media these days is out to ill portray Pakistan Army in any way they can. The situation in tribal areas is not that straght forward as one might

The Army is not that stupid that they will go in full force and knock out everyone and everything in the tribal areas ( to the joy of our enemies India , US and their likes ) niether are the triabls that stupid that they'll risk loosing everyting through acts like killing 100 secirty personel including Officers. Life in the tribal areas is difficult any way and they wont risk loosing everyting and making it any more difficult , they are quite clever in their ways. This has forever been the case between the 'centre' and and FATA , long before the current crisis statred

The Army had to move in again this time after the National Intellegence Estimate ( NIE ) report in the US came out caliming that there are Al Qaida safe heavens in the tribal areas. Through fasle reporting in the media ( mainly US & British gov backed ) they pressured Pakistan into re-starting operations in FATA again.

The unrest in the tribal areas is directly related to the presence of US/NATO troops accross the border , the sooner they ( US/ NATO ) can be kicked out of Afghanistan the better it is for Pakistan.

 

[Always Neutral]

I personally think the truth is in between. The Pakistan Army is reputed to be modern, well trained and well equiped. It has recieved a lot of equipment and weapons from the US primarily for operations in these areas and its impossible that in todays world 100 soldiers can be lost in area monitored so well by the US drones and satellites not to mention PA's own assets. Most likely scenario would be that they would reached a bridge or pass which was being guarded by the tribals who may have been suspicious of the soldiers intentions and would have stopped them. The officer incharge of the Company must have wisely decided that instead of getting into a fire fight and inflaming the area it may be better to consult HQ and hence back door negotiations must have taken place. Unfortunately the media stumbled on the story so a weak and lame excuse from the higher ups in GHQ about weathers, loss of communication etc was given.

Best Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I personally think the truth is in between. The Pakistan Army is reputed to be modern, well trained and well equiped. It has recieved a lot of equipment and weapons from the US primarily for operations in these areas and its impossible that in todays world 100 soldiers can be lost in area monitored so well by the US drones and satellites not to mention PA's own assets. Most likely scenario would be that they would reached a bridge or pass which was being guarded by the tribals who may have been suspicious of the soldiers intentions and would have stopped them. The officer incharge of the Company must have wisely decided that instead of getting into a fire fight and inflaming the area it may be better to consult HQ and hence back door negotiations must have taken place. Unfortunately the media stumbled on the story so a weak and lame excuse from the higher ups in GHQ about weathers, loss of communication etc was given.

Best Regards

Good point. I think that the series of contradicting and sometimes ridiculous accounts coming out of the Tribal areas (being accredited to "unknown" Tribal sources), such as the one in Sat. Dawn about 20 Tribals capturing over two hundred solders without a shot being fired (perhaps they have been taking UnderDog's Secret Energy Vitamin Pill..!!), indicate that the "kidnapped" story is not necessarily true.

The one account that seems to be consistent is that no shots were fired. This, to me, indicates a "standoff", with the militants trying to gain as much PR mileage out of it as possible. One of the first accounts out of the areas, as stated by Senator Saleh Shah, was that the local Tribals were trying to dissuade the militants from "attacking" the convoy. That account makes sense from the standoff POV.

All the accounts about the negotiating committees state that they are being taken to the area where the soldiers were "kidnapped" - I highly doubt that the militants would have remained at the scene if they had acyually managed to overpower the soldiers and transport them to their hideouts.

I suppose only time will tell what the true story is, but if the soldiers return in their convoy with their equipment, the kidnapping account will have been shown to be false, given the MO of the militants during the last kidnapping.

 

[Always Neutral]

Al Jazeera English - News - Bid To Free Pakistan Troops

Its official now. They are hostages atleast as per Major General Waheed Arshad the Pakistan Army spokesman. Associated Press says they are 115 Army soldiers, 85 para military men and approx 25 veheicles.

Very poor planning by GHQ to send them in without air support and proper intelligence.

If the Army does not end this with an iron fist it may encourage misguided elements to carry out similiar operations.

Best Regards

 

[bhangra12345]

6 days have passed since the 100 soldiers have been stopped. Any news on this account?

Where are they getting food from?

 

[ScrewBhindia]

6 days have passed since the 100 soldiers have been stopped. Any news on this account?

Where are they getting food from?

I dont think u should be worried about PAkistani Amry but 10 Mehmand Rifles Troops are out.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

A company (115 soldiers ) and more than half a company of para military personnel being captured en masse by tribal is a bit difficult to believe.

If one goes by the Pakistani Army history of after action reports and of the fierce encounters that Pakistani Army personnel are said to have done, then it is not feasible that 200 men meekly were taken prisoners by a tribal mercenaries!

There must be something other than that!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A company (115 soldiers ) and more than half a company of para military personnel being captured en masse by tribal is a bit difficult to believe.

If one goes by the Pakistani Army history of after action reports and of the fierce encounters that Pakistani Army personnel are said to have done, then it is not feasible that 200 men meekly were taken prisoners by a tribal mercenaries!

There must be something other than that!

The last "reliable" account I heard was on the Aaj talk show "Bolta Pakistan" today, where the hosts had a conversation with Senator Saleh Shah (from the Tribal Areas), who has met with the militants involved as part of the Jirgas sent to negotiate with them.

Based on what he said, after the release of the previous 19 FC personnel, the Army and the militants in the Mahsud areas had an agreement to not engage each other. Baitullah Mehsud, the senator confirmed, however thought that the Army was planning a major operation against them because of heavy troop movements in the area. This paranoia or suspicion led to a deliberate attempt to attack or capture the soldiers, despite the recent agreement to not do so.

The senator was asked about the "quiet surrender", and he did not deny that the troops were delayed because of a bridge that was damaged (or some other obstacle) at which point they were surrounded. If the troops had been ordered not to escalate the situation in light of the recent release of the 19 paras, it is quite easy to imagine why a convoy ,with soldiers stuck inside their vehicles at a damaged bridge, could be surrounded by a few hundred fighters and made to surrender. Its a little foolish to fight it out from a truck with rockets and HMG's pointed at you. It would be a bloodbath.

Now this guy, Saleh Shah, also claimed ignorance about the video that showed the beheading of one of the earlier captured FC men. That claim is a bald faced lie if I ever heard one. This guy was involved in the negotiations around the first kidnapping as well and hails from the area. I find it impossible to believe that he was not aware of the story plastered on the front pages of all the newspapers.

 

[niaz]

I have a different theory. I believe that many of the troops dont really want to fight the talibaan. It simply means killing and being killed by ones own family members and many of the FC are from the same or nearby areas. It is lot easier to surrender and be ransomed.

I could be totally wrong but only other possibility is that they were cowards. How else a compay surrender to a few talibaan when they have the option to call upon helo gunships for support. Waziristan has therefore already broken Pakistan's back.

Call me a prophet of doom but I can't think of any other plausible reason why a fully armed company will surrender without a fight??

 

[Bull]

A company (115 soldiers ) and more than half a company of para military personnel being captured en masse by tribal is a bit difficult to believe.

If one goes by the Pakistani Army history of after action reports and of the fierce encounters that Pakistani Army personnel are said to have done, then it is not feasible that 200 men meekly were taken prisoners by a tribal mercenaries!

There must be something other than that!

But wasnt it reproted earlier that a PA division or para troops had laid down arms in this restive area?