WikiLeaks: Sonia wanted to ban Bajrang Dal

[ExtraOdinary]

Uhuh. You say that because you're a well educated person who knows better than to lash out in hatred even in the face of extreme hatred.

Our government, joining the ranks of shining democracies like Saudi Arabia and the ilk, banned "Innocence Of Muslims" at warp speed. Why isn't the same consideration floated the Hindu's way? Because they expect every one of us to be blessed with the same intellect and restraint. That, simply isn't true.

I know people in our country are obsessed with religion. Yes that movie shud'nt have been banned nor should rushdie's novel. I am only objecting to the use of violence by these groups. If they peacefully protest against say V-day etc I have no issues. But if they go around beating people for visiting bars then they have to be put down.

 

[StormShadow]

Read the posts above.

I have read.

If they are strong enough to do so then yes, legality and morality come afterwards. The first rule descends from might.

If "might is right" was the case, then India would not have been secular. Calling for death of families is not the quality of a human. If they should be slaughtered along with their families for the mentality they have, you are no different from them.

 

[Dillinger]

I have read.


If "might is right" was the case, then India would not have been secular. Calling for death of families is not the quality of a human. If they should be slaughtered along with their families for the mentality they have, you are no different from them.

News flash, India isn't particularly secular.

Secular doesn't mean "respect for all that is religious, all religions and all beliefs", that's tolerance and moderateness.

Secular means "attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis"- that we definitely are NOT. Everything from politics to how people wipe their ***** breeds out of some "belief" or the other.

Might has always been right or do you think we defended ourselves for the past 65 years with Gandhi's dhoti?

 

[Hobo1]

Our media completely ignores the activities of these Christian missioanries. And only organsation working against and making us aware about the such activties is Bajrang Dal.
So Sonia Catholic Gandhi very smartly decided to ban only group that showed the real true colors of these Christain missionaries.

 

[cyphercide]

Excision is quick, its efficient. More importantly it sets an example. There is only room for one vision in this nation- a vision that is not Nehru's socialist paradise or the RSS's Hindu mah-rashtra. That vision is of a nation home to its people, resurgent and strong. The directive principles of our constitution clearly spell out what we are meant to be. ANYTHING that goes against that is fit to be killed. Once you put yourself in opposition of the state then you've forgone any right to plead parlay.

Again, it is strength that matters. No one wanted to talk to the Maoists..we proved incapable of eradicating them and so we had to try and negotiate (that the negotiations were a failure is another thing). On the other hand many groups in the NE came to the table on their own volition after they had been decimated. The process is- first hit them hard and decimate them, then IF they bend the knee be benevolent and talk. Not the other way round. These groups are not sovereign nations that they need to be treated with respect and handled with diplomacy.

Can we assume India's paradigm with a machine-like efficiency like how China runs.Whatever you can rightly say about India, the opposite is also true(Joan Robinson). We are a land where Secularism battles reservations, rising incomes battles rising populations and where left wing appeasement battles right wing extremism. But we never can be a country of absolutes and to turn the tide over completely in an opposite direction is impossible, is blasphemy.

 

[StormShadow]

News flash, India isn't particularly secular.

Secular doesn't mean "respect for all that is religious, all religions and all beliefs", that's tolerance and moderateness.

Secular means "attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis"- that we definitely are NOT. Everything from politics to how people wipe their ***** breeds out of some "belief" or the other.

So what are we?

Might has always been right or do you think we defended ourselves for the past 65 years with Gandhi's dhoti?

So being secular means not defending oneself even when attacked??

 

[cyphercide]

I know people in our country are obsessed with religion. Yes that movie shud'nt have been banned nor should rushdie's novel. I am only objecting to the use of violence by these groups. If they peacefully protest against say V-day etc I have no issues. But if they go around beating people for visiting bars then they have to be put down.

That is why I said it should treated as a law and order problem or a political grievance. If a no-nonsense policy is indeed implemented(that will be a beautiful day), then let it be so across the board with no exceptions.

I still don't understand who needs to be put down? Are we talking about dogs or we talking about Indian citizens who have the same rights as you and I.

P.S# Gawsh, I sound like a full on Sanghi!!!

 

[Dillinger]

Can we assume India's paradigm with a machine-like efficiency like how China runs.Whatever you can rightly say about India, the opposite is also true(Joan Robinson). We are a land where Secularism battles reservations, rising incomes battles rising populations and where left wing appeasement battles right wing extremism. But we never can be a country of absolutes and to turn the tide over completely in an opposite direction is impossible, is blasphemy.

Oh indeed, let us forever pussyfoot around all our issues. Here is a thought..there is one absolute that does face India, grow or die. The aforementioned absolute arises from a thousand factors- from poverty to a hostile neighborhood, but it exists nonetheless. We have been rudderless for the better part of a century, we can continue to be rudderless or we can grow an appetite for strength and fortitude and work towards that.

OR we can always sit around as thousands of foolish notions rend the nation apart. That rending by the way is not geographical, its a rending of the populace, a nation must have once concrete vision that supersedes all. And if that vision is drawn from our own constitution then what's wrong in it, or are we to argue that our constitution is not the paramount law of the land?

So what are we?

So being secular means not defending oneself even when attacked??

Now you're conflating two different things.

The part of my post dealing with our defense simply accentuates that might is paramount.

The other part of my post about secularism is in answer to your assertion that we are a secular nation.

Did you not notice the very conspicuous usage of two different paragraphs by me- to address the two different issues?


What we are is chaos..nothing more and nothing else.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

That is why I said it should treated as a law and order problem or a political grievance. If a no-nonsense policy is indeed implemented(that will be a beautiful day), then let it be so across the board with no exceptions.

I still don't understand who needs to be put down? Are we talking about dogs or we talking about Indian citizens who have the same rights as you and I.

P.S# Gawsh, I sound like a full on Sanghi!!!

:sigh: Those people who use violence as a tool to implement their own warped philosophy on others, be it Bajrang Dal goons beating up couples on Marine Drive or that guy named Haji Yakoob Qureshi who offered a bounty on head of Rushdie or that Christian Priest who called for the murder of Dan Brown. If these individuals belong to an organisation or a group then that group needs to be banned.

 

[StormShadow]

Now you're conflating two different things.

The part of my post dealing with our defense simply accentuates that might is paramount.

The other part of my post about secularism is in answer to your assertion that we are a secular nation.

Did you not notice the very conspicuous usage of two different paragraphs by me- to address the two different issues?


What we are is chaos..nothing more and nothing else.

If we were really chaos[I dont say we are perfect either!], you wont be sitting at your place and type whet ever you liked. Btw, can you tell me one nation which is perfect?

 

[cyphercide]

Oh indeed, let us forever pussyfoot around all our issues. Here is a thought..there is one absolute that does face India, grow die. The aforementioned absolute arises from a thousand factors- from poverty to a hostile neighborhood, but it exists nonetheless. We have been rudderless for the better part of a century, we can continue to be rudderless or we can grow an appetite for strength and fortitude and work towards that.

OR we can always sit around as thousands of foolish notions rend the nation apart. That rending by the way is not geographical, its a rending of the populace, a nation must have once concrete vision that supersedes all. And if that vision is drawn from our own constitution then what's wrong in it, or are we to argue that our constitution is not the paramount law of the land?



Now you're conflating two different things.

The part of my post dealing with our defense simply accentuates that might is paramount.

The other part of my post about secularism is in answer to your assertion that we are a secular nation.

Did you not notice the very conspicuous usage of two different paragraphs by me- to address the two different issues?


What we are is chaos..nothing more and nothing else.

That wasn't the intended message. What I was getting at is that India is mostly a land of compromises. It cannot exist in a one dimensional state where everyone is in agreement. Hence, prioritizing becomes the norm when bifurcations of viewpoints exist. As per my opinion, you cure the sore when you remove the irritant. Have the stones to eradicate the irritant once and for all, no more sores!!!

The only reason we see reversing the cycle(trying to get at the sore rather than the other way around) as a viable alternative is because no one wants to address the elephant in the room.

 

[Dillinger]

If we were really chaos[I dont say we are perfect either!], you wont be sitting at your place and type whet ever you liked. Btw, can you tell me one nation which is perfect?

We are chaos and yet all of us can sit around typing away. There is a slight semantic difference between anarchy and chaos- learn it. Pakistan is a classic example of contained anarchy at the moment and even in that state you can see Pakistanis posting away. What sort of an inane validation is that anyway.


Why would I care about another nation being perfect? Any comparison is relative, I don't want "perfect" I need "relative superiority". What this nation has lacked is an unifying mission statement and we've had precious few people who've attempted to build one, Modi and Indira come to mind. Neither of them have been perfect in their work, ideas or by gauging the consequences of their actions. BUT they've built, developed and looked ahead for our needs. This time take note of the separate paragraphs.

 

[StormShadow]

We are chaos and yet all of us can sit around type away. There is a slight semantic difference between anarchy and chaos- learn it. Pakistan is a classic example of contained anarchy at the moment and even in that state you can see Pakistanis posting away. What sort of an inane validation is that anyway.

The fact that the pakistanis are posting freely tells us that they are not under "contained anarchy". You may call something which you didn't get as stupid but i dont mind clearing it for you. You are having a system. You are enjoying your basic right of freedom of speech. The govt is not censoring you. You are not under threat from anybody for posting stuff you like. You will not be able to do all these things if we were in chaos! As i said, I too feel India has a very long way to go, but you should at the same time know that you are very much better off than other nations which are really in chaos like somalia.

Why would I care about another nation being perfect? Any comparison is relative, I don't want "perfect" I need "relative superiority".

Then you are having "relative superiority" over countries like pakistan, bangladesh, somalia, mongolia etc. Will you be content with that?

 

[Armstrong]

We are chaos and yet all of us can sit around typing away. There is a slight semantic difference between anarchy and chaos- learn it. Pakistan is a classic example of contained anarchy at the moment and even in that state you can see Pakistanis posting away. What sort of an inane validation is that anyway.

Contained Anarchy - Dude you read too much of that spun sh*t that passes for journalism these days !

Pakistan is a classical case of a badly governed state with atrociously bad environmental dynamics !

 

[Dillinger]

The fact that the pakistanis are posting freely tells us that they are not under "contained anarchy". You may call something which you didn't get as stupid but i dont mind clearing it for you. You are having a system. You are enjoying your basic right of freedom of speech. The govt is not censoring you. You are not under threat from anybody for posting stuff you like. You will not be able to do all these things if we were in chaos! As i said, I too feel India has a very long way to go, but you should at the same time know that you are very much better off than other nations which are really in chaos like somalia.



Then you are having "relative superiority" over countries like pakistan, bangladesh, somalia, mongolia etc. Will you be content with that?

Lets set this straight, those basic rights are just that- BASIC RIGHTS. The key word being "BASIC", ensuring their prevalence is the the minimum basic. I don't want us to be stuck at the minimum basic...because there are a lot of things that comE after that. Our society does operate on chaotic plain without vision or foresight. That is why we lag behind while nations that started right along with us- China- march past. A nation becomes great when its populace sets its collective and ergo synergistic efforts towards a selection of common and enshrined goals. That is order, what we have at the moment is chaos. Is that clear enough an amplification?

What in nine hells are we supposed to do with superiority over BD or Pak? Our challenges went beyond them decades back, unfortunately our thinking did not.

Contained Anarchy - Dude you read too much of that spun sh*t that passes for journalism these days !

Pakistan is a classical case of a badly governed state with atrociously bad environmental dynamics !

and ergo anarchy mere yaara...no one governing, no real power of state institutions over fools running amok harming the nation.

Ergo pretty good example of anarchy at the moment- till you come to power and clean it all up...OR..OR..OR HYPE DOES IT!!