Why we’re headed for the Nehruvian growth rate of 4-5 percent?

[faithfulguy]

I am the one who agrees with you: Saudi Arabia, China, UAE and Indonesia have "manufacturing" as the biggest component of their GDP.

Go to bed now, and dig tomorrow. Hail digging !!!

I'm in America and its midnight here in the west coast. And we don't dig, I wish I can dig, which means I have a oil field. My sister in law just found some oil in their land last year. Good night.

GDP PPP essentially is GDP at purchaser price.

GDP per capita, PPP (current international $) | Data | Table

And the purchase price is subjective as it a pick and choose of certain commodities or goods. And hence is subjective.

 

[Sergi]

Here you go:

List of countries by GDP sector composition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by "manufacturing" GDP:

Saudi Arabia: 439 Billion
Spain: 324 Billion
Netherlands: 185 Billion
Indonesia: 419 Billion
Australia: 410 Billion
Turkey: 220 Billion
India: 328 Billion

although a wiki article.... i read that. Can you please point me were the article mention "manufacturing" ??? That particular word has bigger meaning in economics.

Off course, Saudi Arabia is a "manufacturing" powerhouse ... if the measure is nominal manufacturing GDP.

NOMINAL MANUFACTURING GDP is a part of Nominal GDP and both are different terms. What you are pointing is itself Nominal GDP figure.

And like it or not ... there is no "primary sector" GDP or "mining sector" GDP in the composition.

Mining GDP is included in Manufacturing GDP.

GDP is calculated per sector. In India we use PRODUCT METHOD for primary sector and INCOME METHOD for secondary and tertiary sectors

According to CSO and NSSO 61th round contribution of primary sector to india's GDP in 2010/11 was 14.4% secondary sector 27.9% and tertiary sector 57.7%.
Feel free to google.

 

[AADHAAR]

I'm in America and its midnight here in the west coast. And we don't dig, I wish I can dig, which means I have a oil field. My sister in law just found some oil in their land last year. Good night.

Oh yeah, America is quite lowly in terms of "manufacturing" GDP.. only 19% compared to 66% for Saudi Arabia and 45% for China.

The problem is that Americans don't dig much !!! -- china digs 4 times America. Guys, learn from china and saudi arabia.

 

[Jade]

I'm in America and its midnight here in the west coast. And we don't dig, I wish I can dig, which means I have a oil field. My sister in law just found some oil in their land last year. Good night.



And the purchase price is subjective as it a pick and choose of certain commodities or goods. And hence is subjective.

Then how about the assumption that 'a US dollar buys the same everywhere in the world' used to calculate GDP Nominal ?

 

[AADHAAR]

although a wiki article.... i read that. Can you please point me were the article mention "manufacturing" ??? That particular word has bigger meaning in economics.

NOMINAL MANUFACTURING GDP is a part of Nominal GDP and both are different terms. What you are pointing is itself Nominal GDP figure.



GDP is calculated per sector. In India we use PRODUCT METHOD for primary sector and INCOME METHOD for secondary and tertiary sectors

According to CSO and NSSO 61th round contribution of primary sector to india GDP in 2010/11 was 14.4% secondary sector 27.9% and tertiary sector 57.7%.
Feel free to google.

The simple thing is, if you use your own definition ... China's doesn't have a 45% of their GDP from true "manufacturing" - its more like 20% or 25%, if you take out the "mining" which is included.

As four Saudi Arabia, they don't have 66% of their GDP coming from true "manufacturing" - its more like 1% or 2%, if you take out the "mining" which is included.

You can go and search the numbers for true "manufacturing" GDP, free from the digging part. I can't find.

(But, subjectively, if someone is producing 50% of the world's coal ... mining is a disproportionately large part of the GDP, for that particular country).

 

[Sergi]

Overall, US has a much more open market and efficient economy. Even though India "open" up its economy in 1991. Its economy is still relatively closed as compare to a US, Europe or even China.

Don't give the overall BS. Point is every country do it. The level depend on its economy.
No country in the world has 100% open economy.

 

[Sergi]

The simple thing is, if you use your own definition ...

Thing is you cant use your own definitions in economics. Simple change of word like GDP - GNP make a huge diffrence

China's doesn't have a 45% of their GDP from true "manufacturing" - its more like 20% or 25%, if you take out the "mining" which is included.

As four Saudi Arabia, they don't have 66% of their GDP coming from true "manufacturing" - its more like 1% or 2%, if you take out the "mining" which is included.

You can go and search the numbers for true "manufacturing" GDP, free from the digging part. I can't find.

(But, subjectively, if someone is producing 50% of the world's coal ... mining is a disproportionately large part of the GDP, for that particular country).

Simple thing Sauds sell their oil to earn money. Did China sell coal to earn money ??? They put it in their industry to produce power which give life to their manufacturing industries which produce the "consumer electronics" sold world wide. So they actually get more returns than selling coal. And in process their coal - a natural resource from primary sector - drive their manufacturing industry - A secondary secotor

 

[AADHAAR]

Simple thing Sauds sell their oil to earn money. Did China sell coal to earn money ???

A fair question.

Do you think a market exists in the world to buy China's 3,700 million tonnes of coal ?

(A ready market for Saudi oil, clearly exists).

So, what's the alternative for china:

1. Burn the coal
2. Absorb all the resultant air pollution.
3. Earn the "trade surplus" which is actually the "coal" rolled up inside the chinese exports.

If china were to start importing all the coal (and stop digging, altogether).. 3,700 million tonnes of it, their trade surplus will evaporate.

Do you think, china with less than 20% of the world's population could consume 50% of the world's coal and still be as poor as it is? The reason is that the beneficial output from the 50% of the world's coal isn't going to chinese, but to Europeans and Americans (and perhaps, Indians to an extent).

Let's say, only half of china's coal (still a good 25% of world's coal production) goes for beneficial use of chinese, the rest 25% is essentially burnt to benefit of rest of the world. The value of this 25% of world's coal is upwards of $ 175 billion.

If china cuts the "export-in-kind" of this 25% of the world's coal, there goes the "trade surplus".

If Saudi Arabia stops digging for oil.. there goes its "trade surplus" as well.

 

[Sergi]

A fair question.

Do you think a market exists in the world to buy China's 3,700 million tonnes of coal ?

(A ready market for Saudi oil, clearly exists).

So, what's the alternative for china:

1. Burn the coal
2. Absorb all the resultant air pollution.
3. Earn the "trade surplus" which is actually the "coal" rolled up inside the chinese exports.

If china were to start importing all the coal (and stop digging, altogether).. 3,700 million tonnes of it, their trade surplus will evaporate.

Do you think, china with less than 20% of the world's population could consume 50% of the world's coal and still be as poor as it is? The reason is that the beneficial output from the 50% of the world's coal isn't going to chinese, but to Europeans and Americans (and perhaps, Indians to an extent).

Let's say, only half of china's coal (still a good 25% of world's coal production) goes for beneficial use of chinese, the rest 25% is essentially burnt to benefit of rest of the world. The value of this 25% of world's coal is upwards of $ 175 billion.

If china cuts the "export-in-kind" of this 25% of the world's coal, there goes the "trade surplus".

If Saudi Arabia stops digging for oil.. there goes its "trade surplus" as well.

Do you want to say the earning China made by exporting "consumer electronics" are COAL earnings ??? I hope not.

Secondary sector is all about value addition to resources and raw materials obtained in Primary sector.
Say the value of coal is 175 billions but the out put it created with Manufacturing industry is multiple times. In trillions.
Every country keep reservers of its natural resources. I am sure even China might have done that too.

For India we import 75/80% of our oil requirement cause we don't use our deposits to full.

If Sauds run outta oil they cant do anything. If China run outta coal they will use oil. Thats why Chinese companies like ours are scouting Africa and Russia. Or can use nuclear power plants to run their manufacturing industry.

For Sauds - the day their oil is gone. They are done. Thats why they too are investing heavily on tourism economy.

 

[AADHAAR]

Do you want to say the earning China made by exporting "consumer electronics" are COAL earnings ??? I hope not.

China only earns "wages" for assembling all "consumer electronics" for Philips, Apple, Toshiba et al.

So, "consumer electronics" only fatten up the "export" and "import" numbers ... but nil contribution to "trade surplus" ... since the profit belongs to Philips in Netherlands, and Apple in USA.

And the "wages" addition is not large .. look for break-up of costs of iPhone from Apple (which is "manufactured" in china).
Yeah, "wages" and "power" to the extent needed (which comes from coal).

Earnings from "wages" for assembling components are really pathetic ... since its an utterly low-end job.

IT Services is a much higher end job (in the sense they earn an altogether different order, in terms of wages).

83% of all high-end manufacturing in china is controlled by MNCs.

Secondary sector is all about value addition to resources and raw materials obtained in Primary sector.
Say the value of coal is 175 billions but the out put it created with Manufacturing industry is multiple times. In trillions.
Every country keep reservers of its natural resources. I am sure even China would have done that too.

For India we import 75/80% of our oil requirement cause we don't use our deposits to full.

If Sauds run outta oil they cant do anything. If China run outta coal they will use oil. Thats why Chinese companies like ours are scouting Africa and Russia. Or can use nuclear power plants to run their manufacturing industry.

For Sauds - the day their oil is gone. They are done. Thats why they too are investing heavily on tourism economy.

Count the cost of power sold to china's totally-for-export factories, where some processes can be really power intensive.

Chinese don't consume that "power" used up in "export factories" ... it's the American, European and perhaps, Indian consumers who use that power (or in other words, coal).

If china is burning 175 billion worth of coal for the benefit of consumers in America, Europe and India ..... c'mon these countries need to pay for that coal.

Or do you think, china should just burn that much coal for us, for free ??

They have 50% of the world's coal ... and they want to export ... in which ever way its feasible ... and world is willing to buy "that coal".

Ditto.. Saudis have oil ... and the world is willing to buy "that oil".

Damn. .you have to pay the Saudi's for it, as well.

Oil or coal .. nay. they don't come free.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So, what's the alternative for china:

1. Burn the coal
2. Absorb all the resultant air pollution.
3. Earn the "trade surplus" which is actually the "coal" rolled up inside the chinese exports.

Poor logic again.

Can you explain to me then, why it is actually India that has the most toxic air in the whole world?

The Hindu - India has the world's most toxic air: Study

It is official: India has the world's most toxic air.

In a study by Yale and Columbia Universities, India holds the very last rank among 132 nations in terms of air quality with regard to its effect on human health.

This is according to a 2012 study by Yale and Columbia Universities.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

^^^ @AADHAAR why r you trying to prove your illogical argument? First define manufacturing then post.
Have you got any idea of Industrialization Saudis have done? DO you still think that their entire GDP is based on crude oil exports?
They have one of the biggest Petrochemical industry in the world. And it comes under manufacturing.

Here is the list of Saudi companies.

List of Companies in Saudi Arabia - Bloomberg

Top 100 Saudi Arabia Companies

KSA's Big 25 list of construction companies | ConstructionWeekOnline.com

 

[AADHAAR]

^^^ another irrelevent and off-topic post by chinese-dr...

Anyway, I just learnt the meaning of what PSI 400 actually looks like, in Singapore.

thankfully, it back to 50-ish (which is moderate), now.

 

[Sergi]

@AADHAAR

Apple itself said it cant move production line out of China for labour cost.
And its not just about wage.
Chinese assembly lines assemble Apple products. They do it cause they have cheap labour. So they do earn in the process.
Secondly other industries like Silicon and transport get their business from that apple production line casing economic stimulation and employment. So they earn more. Apple earn its share after selling. China earn while producing. If a MNC is handling process it will have to pay taxes and for power. Employment is always there.

Fact is ability to produce in mass make the per unit cost lower. That's gain and more market. The companies built to facilitate Apple phones also help local manufactures. You can see cheap Chinese phones capturing lower end market.

Chinese don't consume that "power" used up in "export factories" ... it's the American, European and perhaps, Indian consumers who use that power (or in other words, coal).

Chinese consume the power all by them-self to sell finished product to said countries. And the price is not only for coal.
Can apple build iPhone in the same price as China ??? If they could they would got out. And its not because US don't have required energy. You argument is messed up.

I cant argue on what you think. So i rest my case.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It does seem that Congress's policies haven't worked . BJP will come to power next . Lets see what they can do. I don't know what they can do differently though.

I hope job creation and increase in wages are a priority rather than just GDP growth rate.