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Why we’re headed for the Nehruvian growth rate of 4-5 percent?

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All the signs are that India has entered a new phase of low growth – what we should call the Nehruvian natural state of 3-5 percent annual growth, which was wrongly dubbed the ‘Hindu rate of growth’. :omghaha: :omghaha:

Before we talk about these signs, it is worth asserting that a slowdown is the only thing that will help correct the gross economic distortions introduced by the UPA during its economically-damaging second term in office – which, of course, was the logical consequence of its roller-coaster ride in the first term where it abjured all reforms.

The distortions are the following:

One, there’s been a huge bloat in energy subsidies – in oil, gas, coal and power – which are essentially subsidies for the relatively rich or for business. Yesterday’s decision to double gas prices to $8.4 per mmBtu from 1 April 2014, and the earlier decision to keep raising diesel prices by 50 paise every month are tacit acknowledgements of this.

Two, the country is living wildly beyond its means – both internally and externally. The fiscal deficit – the difference between what the government earns and its proposed expenses before borrowings – is well over 5 percent if one includes oil subsidies that haven’t been budgeted for. In 2007-08, the deficit was Rs 1,26,912 crore; this year, even after P Chidambaram’s so-called austerity measures, the figure is more than four times higher at Rs 5,42,499 crore.

Worse, as the Reserve Bank’s figures released yesterday show, the country is deeply in debt to the world outside. The country has $261 billion in foreign exchange reserves (excluding gold); it has $390 billion in debt (as on 31 March 2013), and rising. If the world wanted its money back today, the country wouldn’t be able to return more than two dollars for every three dollars owed. And remember, nearly 60 percent of our debt has to be paid off over the next year. Is it any wonder the rupee is falling?

Three, the country has prematurely tried to create a welfare state even before it has had adequate opportunity to drive growth, and build state resources. From NREGA to loan waivers, Food Security to Land Acquisition, the Sonia Gandhi-led dispensation has poured money into wasteful schemes in a foolish bid to buy votes and stay in power. In the process, the government has also raised costs for all businesses. In an election year, it is unlikely that this government – any government – will have the guts to change course.

It is these politico-economic issues that make the India story unviable in the short-term. The immediate cause for the crash of the rupee is, of course, external, as the world is adjusting to the possibility of US Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke reducing his bond purchases, but the fundamental economic distortions are self-created by the UPA.

The India growth story is turning cold both because of past excesses and because corrective action will cause more pain in the short and medium term.

Now, for the signs of an economy that’s tapering down.

1. The drastic fall in the CAD for January-March period to 3.6 percent from 6.7 percent in the previous quarter is a signal not of a correcting CAD, but a slowing economy. The same is the case with inflation, which is falling not because of a better demand-supply balance, but declining growth. This is why the wholesale price index is at half the level of consumer prices, indicating that industry is unable to pass price increases through.

2. The doubling of gas prices and the steady increases in diesel are intended to raise domestic production and reduce imports. But the short-term impact of these price hikes will be inflationary – as gas costs feed through to fertiliser and power industries, and a falling rupee makes all energy costs higher. This will ensure that the slowdown will be with us not just this year, but also the next.

3. Food inflation is set to remain high, if not soar again. The prime reason for this will be the Food Security Bill. The FSB has two negative impacts: one is to raise the subsidy bill – which is inherently inflationary because higher food subsidies means higher procurement, which means higher support prices, which means higher storage, movement and fertiliser costs. The second negative is the obverse side of selling grains at Re 1, Rs 2 and Rs 3 a kg to the poor. The poor will buy the cheap grain and sell a part of it in the open market which will then be used for higher-protein food (milk, veggies, meat, eggs, etc). Recent food inflation has been caused not by rice or wheat, but protein items. The FSB will thus directly make food inflation worse. Nothing slows down an economy more than inflation.

4. The rupee’s depreciation will slow down all economic activities as imports are squeezed and borrowers in dollars squeeze budgets to pay back loans and invest less. In the near future, companies will prefer to hoard cash rather than invest since the economic climate will be uncertain. This will worsen the slowdown , given what we need to revive growth is more investment.

5. In June, foreign investors sold Rs 40,000 crore worth of debt and equity, indicating that they too think returns after adjusting for country and exchange risks will be better outside India. Without a market revival there is no chance that Indian companies themselves will invest.

In short, India’s growth story is back to the low-equilibrium levels of the Nehruvian era. The only antidote to it is very strong reforms in energy pricing, FDI, labour and land markets. Large chunks of the public sector need to be sold off – and not just divested piecemeal. Or else we should cut welfare spending drastically.

The UPA has killed the India story and its current actions do not suggest any reversal of this trend. For the next three years, I see growth in the range of 4-5 percent.
And a cut in welfare spending.

Why we’re headed for the Nehruvian growth rate of 4-5 percent - Firstpost

Where are the Dumbf*ck Yuppies with the Congress 10% Growth rate?

It was the BJPs policies from 1998-2003 which led to growth.

When that has dried, the country is jacked up!
 
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I doubt that it will fall below 5% for this FY. There are already signs of improvement.
But yeah, nonsensical spending like its done by the GOI is not helping the economic growth
However, the 10 % growth rate is almost impossible for the next years, no matter what policy of party will determine the economic course. The global economic atmosphere before 2008/2009 wont repeat itself anytime soon.
 
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Hindu rate of growth is nothing but the propaganda created by congressis and commies to put all blame on hindus....where was this hindu rate when India was growing with 10% ?
The pseudo seculars have made a mockery out of us hindus
 
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Where are the Dumbf*ck Yuppies with the Congress 10% Growth rate?

It was the BJPs policies from 1998-2003 which led to growth.

When that has dried, the country is jacked up!

Way too simplistic view!

I can't tell you about the effect of the government policies to the inflation, but wrt to growth there is a common misunderstand in India, that the Indian growth is bad, the reality however is very different!!!

economic-growth-1.jpg



In fact, India's growth is one of the few in the world that has a good rate in the last few years, but way more important and what often is ignored in India is, under what circumstances this growth rate is achieved.

Since 2007/08 the world is going through one crisis after the other. The US started it with their greed and faulty view of privatizing everything and the world has to pay the price since then. Trillions had to be spend to all over the world to keep the financial sectors from a free fall and even countries like spain, that had no dept earlier came in big trouble while saving banks and as much of their economy as possible, which also lead to the Euro debt crisis today:

euro-crisis-timeline-1999.jpg



In Europe everybody is looking at Germany and are praising them for an unbeliveable growthrate of 1.5 to 2% in these crisis years and in India people are complaining about 5 to 7%! :hitwall:

When all countries are cutting budgets and spending, the privat economy also has to cut it => which logically translates into less investments into foreign countries, which is one part of the slow down of Indias or even the global FDI.
It is naiv to belive that another party would have done wonders in India, during this time, since most of what you could do is, countering the outcomes of these global crisis and the longer the US and Europe need to get in the right direction, the longer India will need to see growthrates of 9 or 10% again, as simple as it is.

Another fact that many ignore is, that MMS strict policies regard to a highly government owned bank / financial system saved India after 2008, from similar effects that we saw in the US, Europe, or even Japan. Only very few Indian banks needed government funding to bail them out, thanks to government regulations.

Please look outside of the box of party politics and religious bias in India, there are more things to consider, which even have way higher effects out there!
 
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Rather than blamming or crediting one party for the state economy finds it in, it is important to look at the policy making holistically. Since the days of coalition govts becoming a norm in country's politics, it has become increasingly difficult to formulate a policy that pleases all and is effective at the same time. Both NDA and UPA 1 rode on explosive growth in 10 years spanning from 1998 to about 2007.
Its true we did better than most economies during the last crisis but we could've done far better considering our fundamentals of economy are far stronger. Perhaps we still can if there is sufficient political will to shun populism and take decession with an eye on future beyond elections.
 
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Way too simplistic view!

I can't tell you about the effect of the government policies to the inflation, but wrt to growth there is a common misunderstand in India, that the Indian growth is bad, the reality however is very different!!!

economic-growth-1.jpg



In fact, India's growth is one of the few in the world that has a good rate in the last few years, but way more important and what often is ignored in India is, under what circumstances this growth rate is achieved.

Since 2007/08 the world is going through one crisis after the other. The US started it with their greed and faulty view of privatizing everything and the world has to pay the price since then. Trillions had to be spend to all over the world to keep the financial sectors from a free fall and even countries like spain, that had no dept earlier came in big trouble while saving banks and as much of their economy as possible, which also lead to the Euro debt crisis today:

euro-crisis-timeline-1999.jpg



In Europe everybody is looking at Germany and are praising them for an unbeliveable growthrate of 1.5 to 2% in these crisis years and in India people are complaining about 5 to 7%! :hitwall:

When all countries are cutting budgets and spending, the privat economy also has to cut it => which logically translates into less investments into foreign countries, which is one part of the slow down of Indias or even the global FDI.
It is naiv to belive that another party would have done wonders in India, during this time, since most of what you could do is, countering the outcomes of these global crisis and the longer the US and Europe need to get in the right direction, the longer India will need to see growthrates of 9 or 10% again, as simple as it is.

Another fact that many ignore is, that MMS strict policies regard to a highly government owned bank / financial system saved India after 2008, from similar effects that we saw in the US, Europe, or even Japan. Only very few Indian banks needed government funding to bail them out, thanks to government regulations.

Please look outside of the box of party politics and religious bias in India, there are more things to consider, which even have way higher effects out there!

a 1.5% growth rate at Europe has a much higher absolute growth than India's 5%. That is the issue here.
 
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a 1.5% growth rate at Europe has a much higher absolute growth than India's 5%. That is the issue here.

It's actually the same. India's GDP is about 1/3rd of Europe and a growth of more than 3 times means that India increases physical output as much as all of Europe.

And that when India's GDP doesn't depend much on how non-renewable minerals we dig !!!!

India's GDP mainly depends on human endeavour ... not non-renewable coal or oil, unlike Saudi Arabia or China.
 
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India's GDP is just over 1/3 of Germany's. Not Europe. EU has 8 times the GDP of India. And adding the none EU nations and I would believe its close to 10 times that of India. So India's GDP need to be at 11.5 percent to equal a 1.5 percent growth of Europe.

Also why are you saying that China relying on minerals. They rely on manufacturing while India rely on IT and remittance.
 
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India's GDP is just over 1/3 of Germany's. Not Europe. EU has 8 times the GDP of India. And adding the none EU nations and I would believe its close to 10 times that of India. So India's GDP need to be at 11.5 percent to equal a 1.5 percent growth of Europe.

Also why are you saying that China relying on minerals. They rely on manufacturing while India rely on IT and remittance.

If you say Europe has 8 times India's GDP, do you mean Europe produces 8 times the foodgrains, 8 times steel, 8 times power, 8 times milk ?

If not, you need to recheck your numbers.

It is china which produces 7 times India's coal, not manufacturing, 4 times India's oil .. while only 1 time foodgrains. The GDP factor is 2.5 times.

Hence, it is non-renewable mineral production which skewing china's GDP mix.

Much like Saudi Arabia.

If we take your numbers, Saudi Arabia doesn't produce any steel or pharmaceuticals or textiles or cement or aluminium, but it you go thru this link (which is the presumable the basis of all your claims):

List of countries by GDP sector composition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saudi Arabia (Manufacturing GDP) > India (Manufacturing GDP).
439 Billion > 328 Billion.

That's because: (i) Drilling oil from ground is included in manufacturing, (ii) Indian manufacturing GDP is counted at the INR price it sells in India

Ditto is the much the reality of china's manufacturing GDP as well... because mining is "considered" manufacturing.

Lastly, don't be stupid to include "remittances" as part of India's GDP. They are counted as part of Europe's GDP, USA's GDP and Saudi Arabia's GDP, not India's !!
 
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If you say Europe has 8 times India's GDP, do you mean Europe produces 8 times the foodgrains, 8 times steel, 8 times power, 8 times milk ?

If not, you need to recheck your numbers.

It is china which produces 7 times India's coal, not manufacturing, 4 times India's oil .. while only 1 time foodgrains. The GDP factor is 2.5 times.

Hence, it is non-renewable mineral production which skewing china's GDP mix.

Much like Saudi Arabia.

If we take your numbers, Saudi Arabia doesn't produce any steel or pharmaceuticals or textiles or cement or aluminium, but it you go thru this link (which is the presumable the basis of all your claims):

List of countries by GDP sector composition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saudi Arabia (Manufacturing GDP) > India (Manufacturing GDP).
439 Billion > 328 Billion.

That's because: (i) Drilling oil from ground is included in manufacturing, (ii) Indian manufacturing GDP is counted at the INR price it sells in India

Ditto is the much the reality of china's manufacturing GDP as well... because mining is "considered" manufacturing.

Lastly, don't be stupid to include "remittances" as part of India's GDP. They are counted as part of Europe's GDP, USA's GDP and Saudi Arabia's GDP, not India's !!

We are talking about GDP, not how much grain or oil each country produced. I know many of you Indians like to use PPP. But PPP is totally subjective and I can come up with my own PPP numbers. So the only valid way to calculate GDP is the nominal GDP in US$. In this case, Europe's GDP is close to 8 times that of India.

As for manufacturing, India has barely any to speak of. India do produced enough for India to use because of protectionist racket of India. If India open up its market for imports, India would have virtually zero manufacturing as people can produced thing more efficient outside of India than the cost of producing something in India. And India has such low wages so its all the inefficiencies, the red tapes and the corruption that make it expensive to do business in India.
 
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Hindu rate of growth is nothing but the propaganda created by congressis and commies to put all blame on hindus....where was this hindu rate when India was growing with 10% ?
The pseudo seculars have made a mockery out of us hindus

You're an @$$hole.

Rather than blamming or crediting one party for the state economy finds it in, it is important to look at the policy making holistically. Since the days of coalition govts becoming a norm in country's politics, it has become increasingly difficult to formulate a policy that pleases all and is effective at the same time. Both NDA and UPA 1 rode on explosive growth in 10 years spanning from 1998 to about 2007.
Its true we did better than most economies during the last crisis but we could've done far better considering our fundamentals of economy are far stronger. Perhaps we still can if there is sufficient political will to shun populism and take decession with an eye on future beyond elections.

Won't happen. From the time the BJP has smelled a chance (2 years ago), they've been stalling every major reform initiative. They WANT the economy to go down so that it helps them come to power.
 
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You cannot call it ‘Hindu rate of growth’ because it will be non-secular ..... :lol:

Do you even know what the word means?

We are talking about GDP, not how much grain or oil each country produced. I know many of you Indians like to use PPP. But PPP is totally subjective and I can come up with my own PPP numbers. So the only valid way to calculate GDP is the nominal GDP in US$. In this case, Europe's GDP is close to 8 times that of India.

As for manufacturing, India has barely any to speak of. India do produced enough for India to use because of protectionist racket of India. If India open up its market for imports, India would have virtually zero manufacturing as people can produced thing more efficient outside of India than the cost of producing something in India. And India has such low wages so its all the inefficiencies, the red tapes and the corruption that make it expensive to do business in India.

You'll come up with your own nos. all right, coz you're so stupid you don't know what any of this means.
 
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We are talking about GDP, not how much grain or oil each country produced. I know many of you Indians like to use PPP. But PPP is totally subjective and I can come up with my own PPP numbers. So the only valid way to calculate GDP is the nominal GDP in US$. In this case, Europe's GDP is close to 8 times that of India.

As for manufacturing, India has barely any to speak of. India do produced enough for India to use because of protectionist racket of India. If India open up its market for imports, India would have virtually zero manufacturing as people can produced thing more efficient outside of India than the cost of producing something in India. And India has such low wages so its all the inefficiencies, the red tapes and the corruption that make it expensive to do business in India.

Hence, proved.

Saudi Arabia is the manufacturing super-power .. since it's manufacturing GDP is greater than even Spain and Netherlands (thought to be EU biggies. :)). Hail Saudi Arabia ...

Saudi Arabia has stupendously wonderful manufacturing prowess.. with manufacturing GDP greater than not only (i) Spain and (ii) Netherlands, but also (ii) Australia, (iii) Indonesia, (iv) Mexico, (v) Sweden (damn, Gripen manufacturing doesn't help them against Saudi manufacturing).

And now some bad news for China -- inspite of digging and digging and digging, China's "manufacturing GDP" is only 45% of total.

Saudi Arabia is also a bigger "manufacturing powerhouse" than China.. because a stupendous 66% of Saudi Arabia's GDP comes from manufacturing.

But don't feel sorry.. China's isn't doing too bad on "manufacturing" ... it still stands 4th (still, a great achievement):

Saudi Arabia: 66% (wow.. they manufacture oil)
UAE: 60% (wow ... they also manufacture oil
Indonesia: 47% (wow.. they manufacture everything, from oil to coal)
China: 45% (wow ... the nation of coal miners. China "manufactures" 50% of the world's coal).

Hail these four biggest "manufacturing" guys... who "manufacture" coal, "manufacture" oil, "manufacture" zinc... wow.. "manufacture".. :tup:
 
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But don't feel sorry.. China's isn't doing too bad on "manufacturing" ... it still stands 4th (still, a great achievement):

Saudi Arabia: 66% (wow.. they manufacture oil)
UAE: 60% (wow ... they also manufacture oil
Indonesia: 47% (wow.. they manufacture everything, from oil to coal)
China: 45% (wow ... the nation of coal miners. China "manufactures" 50% of the world's coal).

Hail these four biggest "manufacturing" guys... who "manufacture" coal, "manufacture" oil, "manufacture" zinc... wow.. "manufacture".. :tup:

LOL, you have no idea what the word "manufacture" means. :lol:

You don't manufacture raw materials like coal and oil. Only an idiot would think that.

Pretty much every manufactured product in the world (especially electronics) will have some connection to China.
 
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