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Why Waziristan cannot be conquered

^^^we dont want to conquer SWA - we want to eliminate the militants - the issue of conquest dosnt arise - its part of pakistan and the writ of the country must be imposed - the traditional tribal system must be brought back (which the militants destroyed)
 
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Allah is best judge who is muslim who is not , it is relation between God and creator.

We need to retore peace in world , it is not good for all.


That is a good way of shying away from the question. It is a convenient answer, seeing as Allah isn't coming down to us and giving his verdict on whether the Taliban are muslims or not. According to you the Taliban are our muslim brothers and we should not fight them, instead we should fight those forces that are creating mistrust between the Taliban (our muslim brothers) and Pakistan?

Peace will not be restored by pretending that the suicide bombers are our brothers.
 
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That is a good way of shying away from the question. It is a convenient answer, seeing as Allah isn't coming down to us and giving his verdict on whether the Taliban are muslims or not. According to you the Taliban are our muslim brothers and we should not fight them, instead we should fight those forces that are creating mistrust between the Taliban (our muslim brothers) and Pakistan?

Peace will not be restored by pretending that the suicide bombers are our brothers.

I am against both talaban extemisim and US drones , it is our internal matter , we should deal it with dialogue .

War is not the ultimate solution, in the end we have to solve it through dialogue .
 
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Talibaan are similar to smaller group of Maulvis that were causing infighting among the muslims in Egypt and weakening the muslim. Every maulvi had it own little group. In today's term that will be Laskar-i-Islam, TTP, TTBaluchistan, TT Punjab, Sunni Therik, Hizbe-Islami, Laskar-Jhangvi etc and on and on. This is exactly what was happening in Egypy and Sultan Salahuddin killed 100,000 (1 lakh) maulvis in Egypt. He used to cry in the Isha prayer that he has no choice but to kill muslims, but those muslims were dividing muslims in smaller groups and causing infighting. After Salahuddin eliminated the smaller maulvis groups he united the muslim and Allah gave him victory not one, not twice but 3 times. He was the only muslim warrior that was never defeated.

Lesson learned, we need to vipe out the Talibaan and all these little groups that are lanunching their agenda and huritng the muslim Ummah. We do not have to conquer Waziristan because it is already part of Pakistan, we just have to enforce the law and order.:pakistan::sniper:
 
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Why Waziristan cannot be conquered
by A. H. Amin
(Friday, February 13, 2004)

"Beware of despising the tribals. They brought both Muslim and non Muslim Emperors to grief whether it was Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Ranjit Singh or the British king."

Those who know the Pathans and their history will know exactly what is happening in Waziristan today and which Lashkar is doing what and for what reason. The tribal Pathans have traditionally been supreme fighters who defied the Mughal occupiers, the Sikh occupiers, the British occupiers and now the latest occupiers, i.e. the US coalition chasing the Pathans and Muslims of various castes and creeds motivated by sheer ideology.

While the tribesmen know the art of resistance they also know the art of extortion from occupiers who try to buy them. Thus while the tribal Pathans killed many thousand occupiers in the British era they also managed to extort many subsidy payments from the British. Thus the same tribesmen who worked as contract laborers making roads for the British during day time, enjoyed sniping and shooting many British officers after sunset or during daytime when not on duty.

Thus when a lashkar of tribesmen appears to be on the payroll of political agents fed by US CIA dollars, all is not what it seems. In this case the tribals are performing an overt function of collaboration and a covert function of increasing their financial muscle which may be subsequently channelised into gun running, drugs or Jihad.

The tribesmen were not loyal subjects of the British. They spent their lives in sniping and ambushing the British and their mercenary Indian troops. Their life script was not to get a BA degree and become a minor civil servant or an ICS officer more loyal than the King. Nor did they get barristers degree and conduct profitable law practices in the courts of the British occupiers.

These men defied the British, killing over 10,000 British or Indian troops from 1849 to 1947, bleeding the British Empire white, forcing the British to maintain a division plus force in the Trans Indus tribal tract. These tribesmen gave sanctuary to Mughal Prince Ferozshah and to the followers of Syed Ahmad Shaheed of Rai Barelly at Malka and Ambela. These tribesmen greeted the British Indian army with fire while many today are famous as great Muslim leaders accepted knighthood and were ridiculed for doing so by Maulana Zafar Ali Khan of "Zamindar" fame.

The tribesmen acceded to Pakistan out of their free will. They were not conquered by the Pakistan Army. As a matter of fact no army including the Mughal, Sikh or British ever succeeded in conquering them. The tribal areas were occupied, overrun but never conquered. Their mosques were never used as stables and powder magazines as many in the tract East of Indus including the Badshahi Mosque of Lahore.

The tribesmen were not saved by the army of the English East India Company unlike the Muslims of Delhi or UP or the Muslims of Punjab and settled Pathan areas were from Hindu Marathas and Sikhs in 1803 and 1849. The tribesmen's mosques were not restored after humble petitioning to the English East India Company as was the case with Badshahi Mosque of Lahore in 1856.

The tribesmen were not willing mercenaries of the British and many Mehsuds, Wazirs and Afridis defected to the German lines in WW-I and returned to Tirah and Waziristan to wage Jihad against the British. The tribesmen cannot be compared with mercenary Muslim troops who opened fire on the Holy Ka'aba on British orders or who gunned down freedom fighters like an FF unit did at Jallianwalla Bagh in 1919.

The tribesmen acceded to Pakistan on the solemn assurance by Mr Jinnah that their customs and their Pathan way of life would not be interfered with. The tribesmen waged Pakistan's first successful Jihad in Kashmir in 1947-48. The tribesmen were used as cannon fodder during the Afghan War of 1979-89 when many generals became rich overnight and won cheap glory without exposing themselves to within 300 miles of hostile fire. The tribals braved salvoes of Soviet Katushkas and shrapnel of Hind Gun ships while sons of ex military tailors became billionaires.

The tribals were more Pan Islamist than Jamaluddin Afghani, more martial than any so called martial race of Indo Pak. More resolute than any general from Cape Komorin to Khunjerab Pass. The tribals are raised as snipers, not as sycophants, their life script is not to please 15 different seniors and get a good ACR, practicing sycophancy with civilian prime ministers and launching coups without a shot being fired against unarmed civilian heads of state.

What is happening in the tribal areas is not in Pakistan's national interests. The venom which has been forced into the tribal Pathan's soul is counterproductive for Pakistan in the long run.

The tribal areas has seen many occupiers. They are classic practitioners of Liddell Harts strategy of indirect approach. Their guerrilla tactics are far more subtle than that of Mao, Ho Chi Minh or Che Guevara. They apply Mao without knowing what he had written. They apply Sandino's Nicaraguan tactics which brought US Marines to grief without ever having heard of him. They are warriors par excellence.

For each militant handed over the tribals gain goodwill from greedy political agents who they deceive and thus succeed in sheltering 50 militants. There is a method in the apparent outward collaboration of the tribals. They cannot be overawed by a telephone call or bought by a million dollar retainer.

No cadet school or college can tame the tribals for whom music is the whistling bullet and its ricochet in the rocky gorges of Waziristan. The tribals don't need a federal government to make money. Their very location is an asset.

Beware of despising the tribals. They brought both Muslim and non Muslim Emperors to grief whether it was Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Ranjit Singh or the British king.

These are not the men who would sell their mother for a thousand dollars as some US senator said about some Pakistani leaders. These leaders may be found in Dera Ghazi Khan or somewhere East of the tribal areas. The tribals are sons of their fathers and there is no confusion about their paternity.

A man who does not know the tribal Pathan way of life is not competent to judge the subtleties of their character. It appears that the same mistake is being made today in the highest echelons of Pakistan's present military usurpers.

Very emotional video :undecided:

Very sad , and very very sad - shows the ugly face of war when
innocent people go in war, they come out as tortured souls

When you go in , you are told something stories and vision by your commanders and when you go at ground level and see realities you get shocked and , you have only to choices either you die or you make it alive

Looks like this solider made it back alive but he lost his innocence , and soul in process:undecided:


But at least he can see difference between right and wrong , and loss of civilian life -

:coffee: if only more ppl were like this person the cilian life lost would be less ....

Rest I am speechless - war is always pain and sad

Hopefully he will find peace and goodness

Why doesn't China get off its a$$ and help Pakistan with the military assistance it needs RIGHT NOW to fight the TTP? Is China helping and I am just ignorant? Please enlighten me. What is China doing to help Pakistan fight internal terrorists??

who created taliban and call it terrorists at first??? usa

who abandoned taliban and snubbed its very religious existence so they become desperate and extreme to keep on surviving after they are no longer used to confront with ussr?? usa

who become jingoistic aroused to attack taliban instead of negotiating with sane islamic world to get a concensus on solutioN
to deal with extremist taliban??? usa

who now become powerless to curb taliban and try to get pak economy commiting suicide by attacking retaliatory taliban??? usa

who now blame pak and china for not participating in its DIRTY game of obliterating ITS FORMER SUBORDINATE taliban??? usa

Who then will claim the credit of winning the wot and protecting the world with the HEAVY sacrifice of pak army and citizen IF PAK PUT ALL HER EFFORT TO JOIN WAR INITIATED BY USA???? usa

CONCLUSION: this is all usa GEOPOLITIC SEEKING(INTERESTS GAINED BY USA INCLUDES CONTAINING RUSSIA AND PARTICULARLY CHINA)game of wot, usa should pay THE PRICE to curb the terrorist taliban so that the world will be in peace by your brutal rule of force, and small weak countries like pak and developing china should keep away from WESTERN INVENTED brutal game rules otherwise they will be smashed to pieces...
MAYBE USA should THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE RAPING THE OTHER COUNTRIES WHICH USA CANNOT AFFORD, AND THEN USA NEED TO SPEAK HARSHLY TO THE COUNTRIES TO GAIN SUPPORT FOR ITS GAME FOR WORLD PEACE (ACTUALLY WESTERN CHRISTIAN AGGRESSIVE CIVILIZATION SAFETY) BY SPREADING MORE BLOODY HATRED, IS THAT MORALLY UPRIGHT FOR YOU TO DRAG OTHERS INTO MARSH OF HATRED-SPREADING, CIVILIANS-INVOLVED PROLONGED BLOODY PEACE FIGHTING?????...ANSWER THE WHOLE WORLD!!!!!!
 
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Talibaan are similar to smaller group of Maulvis that were causing infighting among the muslims in Egypt and weakening the muslim. Every maulvi had it own little group. In today's term that will be Laskar-i-Islam, TTP, TTBaluchistan, TT Punjab, Sunni Therik, Hizbe-Islami, Laskar-Jhangvi etc and on and on. This is exactly what was happening in Egypy and Sultan Salahuddin killed 100,000 (1 lakh) maulvis in Egypt. He used to cry in the Isha prayer that he has no choice but to kill muslims, but those muslims were dividing muslims in smaller groups and causing infighting. After Salahuddin eliminated the smaller maulvis groups he united the muslim and Allah gave him victory not one, not twice but 3 times. He was the only muslim warrior that was never defeated.

Lesson learned, we need to vipe out the Talibaan and all these little groups that are lanunching their agenda and huritng the muslim Ummah. We do not have to conquer Waziristan because it is already part of Pakistan, we just have to enforce the law and order.:pakistan::sniper:

Exactly we should not creat sectarianism among muslim we are brother and should act like one body.

We should also not try to impose law and order which is clash with Shariah.
 
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I am against both talaban extemisim and US drones , it is our internal matter , we should deal it with dialogue .

War is not the ultimate solution, in the end we have to solve it through dialogue .

Dialogue has failed every single time!! Or are you not aware of this?? You are essentially telling us to take up a policy that is a tried and tested failure. Which 'peace deal' has worked wonders for Pakistan? Someone needs to get his head out of the sand.....

And peace with who? People who do suicide bombings? People who bomb childrens schools and flog women for 'suspicion' of adultery? That means we are cowards and we forgive/bow down to these terrorists. That means no justice for the innocent civilians that died in all these attacks. The mother that lost a son, the sister that lost a brother, the country that lost brave policemen and soldiers demands justice! You should get this in your jehadi sympathizing head!
 
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How will the "victory" in South Waziristan look like? What is the definition of conquest there?

Pak Army will sure capture major population centers in about 3-4 days. probably kill 3000-4000 "bad guys" in the bargain. What then?

1. Control the area through curfews a la Swat?
2. Assign 2 divisions for stabilization operations?
3. Spend endless resources in keeping highways open?
4. Spend more resources blockading food, fuel, medical supplies and commerce?

Is there a sustainable and affordable solution?

In my humble opinion pakistan should'nt have left those tribal areas just as "tribal areas " all these years,miles away from any developmental work in the name of safegaurding tribal way of life... where superficial pride BS apart most of these guys live in dirt povert illiteracy usually have nothing worth living for ... and these sort of people often finds any good excues to die for...
 
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friends dont live in the past - look forward to the future!
 
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Dialogue has failed every single time!! Or are you not aware of this?? You are essentially telling us to take up a policy that is a tried and tested failure. Which 'peace deal' has worked wonders for Pakistan? Someone needs to get his head out of the sand.....

And peace with who? People who do suicide bombings? People who bomb childrens schools and flog women for 'suspicion' of adultery? That means we are cowards and we forgive/bow down to these terrorists. That means no justice for the innocent civilians that died in all these attacks. The mother that lost a son, the sister that lost a brother, the country that lost brave policemen and soldiers demands justice! You should get this in your jehadi sympathizing head!

Dear ,

You are confused ,there is lot of difference of swat fazullah group , Mehsud and Afghan Talaban groups.

US target is Afghanistan , they want land not the residents , US killed all red indians by gun and captured their land but here story is different .

US want safe route for their oil pipe lines from central asia to arabian sea through Afghanistan .

This is whole objective for which this war is going on :agree:
 
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Dear ,

You are confused ,there is lot of difference of swat fazullah group , Mehsud and Afghan Talaban groups.

US target is Afghanistan , they want land not the residents , US killed all red indians by gun and captured their land but here story is different .

US want safe route for their oil pipe lines from central asia to arabian sea through Afghanistan .

This is whole objective for which this war is going on :agree:

You said we should have dialogue. Dialogue with who? Terrorists of Waziristan?

Again you shy away from the issue. Forget Afghanistan and America
(how many red indians america killed), I want to know who you want Pakistan to negotiate with.
 
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Allah is best judge who is muslim who is not , it is relation between God and creation.

Quite true, however, don't one's actions speak too if those are adversarial to those who claims to be Muslim as well.

You are right that it is not for us humans to judge when one pronounces to be a muslim and this would be true reciprocally as well.

Peace:tup:
 
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Dear student:
Is’nt that a sure way to get rid of Jehadi militant tendencies? Being loyal allies of US / NATO it is imperative that we rid our society of the basic semblance of Islam.
Pakistan Army and PAF are fighting the same noble war under US / NATO directions.
 
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You said we should have dialogue. Dialogue with who? Terrorists of Waziristan?

Again you shy away from the issue. Forget Afghanistan and America
(how many red indians america killed), I want to know who you want Pakistan to negotiate with.

Majority of Afghan and Pakistan pushtoon tribes are good muslim , few tribel leaders who were trained during Russian jehad were trapped by AQ and now fighting in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Best Strategy is to deal with them through religious dialogue and they can be convinced to stop war .

AQ has international extremisim agenda but these talaban dont have that agenda but when you send US drones in their area their Ulema and elders allowed them to start jehad .
 
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The Arabs who went into tribal areas are married into the locals and their ways were different from the tribals from day one. Over time they have brought about a change.

I know this that when the Arabs came into tribal areas they started 'correcting' the tribals in all manners of religon.
 
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