Why was the Awami League not allowed to form government in 1971?

[Communist]

Urdu was not a west Pakistani language, nor was it an East Pakistani one. It was the language of hapless migrants, U.Pites that travelled to the West, and Biharis to the East.

Incidentally, it was also the language of the later Mughal rulers of India, as well as the adminstrative language the British used in Northern India.

It was the only language that could have been the official language, as no one province could claim it, and lord it over others. If Bangali or PUnjabi had been the official language, the partition of Pakistan would have been much sooner.

The Bangali language is a rich and respected language, yet so too PUnjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Baluchi, Kohistani, Balti, Siraiki, Hindko, and others. To give the Bangali language the status argued for, would have done exactly that to members of other linguistic groups, which the Bangalis themselves complained about.

Sheikh Mujib's six points were in essence, a decleration of seperation and division of Pakistan, or at least perceived so by many. I guess there was a trust deficit, and the West Pakistani politicians did not trust Sheikh Mujib not to go through with it.

We as Pakistanis, might sometimes by nostalgic and sad about what happened, yet in no way are we bitter, nor do we begrudge our Bangladeshi brothers their homeland. Yet do not be upset if we take a keen interest in your affairs, it is only due to brotherly concern and shared memories.

It should be noted though, that Providence has not been kind to the three architects of the division of Pakistan. The violent deaths of Z.Bhutto, I.Gandhi, and S.Mujib might have a lesson in them for us.

Very comprehensive analysis. There might have been a trust deficit which resulted in the rise of a linguistic sentiment and India for its own defence and strategic interests used that to split Pakistan.

 

[HAIDER]

I think Benagli lingo has been well respected..

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I think Benagli lingo has been well respect..

Hey nice photo. I have not seen that before.

I think I will have to express a very unpopular opinion, at least, in Bangladesh. I think that we Bangladeshis have often shot ourselves in the foot over this language thing. The most blatant example is not the conflict with Pakistan but when Ershad decided to make all government offices use Bangla instead of English. This virtually destroyed English teaching in BD and ruined the futures of an entire generation. It also put BD 20 years into the past and we are still catching up because students are 'scared' to learn English. When will we get over this bloody parochialism. Yes Bangla is important but not where it sacrifices our national interest which is much wider than just language. This arrogance about Bangla is like putting a nail to our foot so we can't move forward.

Had Jinnah offered Urdu, Bangla and English as the national languages we would still have probably opposed him. Not a sign of wisdom but one of utter stupidity.

 

[Al-zakir]

Hey nice photo. I have not seen that before.

I think I will have to express a very unpopular opinion, at least, in Bangladesh. I think that we Bangladeshis have often shot ourselves in the foot over this language thing. The most blatant example is not the conflict with Pakistan but when Ershad decided to make all government offices use Bangla instead of English. This virtually destroyed English teaching in BD and ruined the futures of an entire generation. It also put BD 20 years into the past and we are still catching up because students are 'scared' to learn English. When will we get over this bloody parochialism. Yes Bangla is important but not where it sacrifices our national interest which is much wider than just language. This arrogance about Bangla is like putting a nail to our foot so we can't move forward.

Had Jinnah offered Urdu, Bangla and English as the national languages we would still have probably opposed him. Not a sign of wisdom but one of utter stupidity.

Some Bangladeshi takes Bangla thing too seriously as if Bangla is holy language or something. I am tired of them loser and their mother language theory as if there are no mother outside Bangladesh. Bangla isn't even use anywhere but Bangladesh and some part of India. I find Urdu is more useful language than Bangla in international arena beside English. So faster we get out of this Bangla debacle with crying baby emotion better it will be for us.

 

[gromell]

Who was Iskander Mirza then? A Bengali president of Pakistan. In fact Pakistan's first ever president was a Bengali. Who was the Baloch president, or the Pakistani Punjabi one?

lol. thnx for reminding me of iskhander mirza. he was from the nawab family of bengal born in murshidabad, which now falls in India. the nawab family was not ethnically bengali. and beside as i said in my earlier post, just coming from the region does not mean you have great fascination for it. there are always dalal/betrayers and he was not a popular person among bengalis. nazimuddin, bogra-they all were somehow related to nawab families in Bengal and bihar and they did not have ethnic bengali roots. the real popular and honest politicians were Suhrawardy, Sher-e-Bangla A.K. Fazlul Huq(who proposed the Lahore Resolution), Sheikh Mujib, Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani- and all of them won elections through out their career in Pakistan and no one was ever given the political rights that they deserved, because there was an ugly secret agenda, whether you like the fact or not. It's not a theory, it's history, and it's a sad history cause it was mastermind by muslims against muslims, for what? For power, money, and ego. It is sad.

 

[gromell]

Some Bangladeshi takes Bangla thing too seriously as if Bangla is holy language or something. I am tired of them loser and their mother language theory as if there are no mother outside Bangladesh. Bangla isn't even use anywhere but Bangladesh and some part of India. I find Urdu is more useful language than Bangla in international arena beside English. So faster we get out of this Bangla debacle with crying baby emotion better it will be for us.

Take the fact brother. There are more Bengali speakers than Urdu. And nobody was and is saying there is no mother outside Bangladesh. I hope you do understand what the term "Mother Language" actually means. I do not see how someone can even compare two language qualitatively! And Bengalis never took Bangla as holy language! Holy crap what are you saying Zakir bhai!?!? Urdu was thrashed upon Bengalis claiming Urdu is a holy language. Bengalis just fought against that oppressive, ridiculous, absurd theory and wanted to speak whatever they want. Well, I am a bit general in my last few words, probably not just fighting for the right to speak but to establish a status for the FIRST language of the majority of the people of Islamic Republic of Pakistan. You go to any country and just see how whiny they are about their language. George Bush had a problem with Hispanic people speaking Spanish in his country! You come to Montreal in Canada, most people won't even answer your question if you ask it in any language other than French(that includes English too! and 80% Canadians are anglophones). Go to European countries and see how they uphold their languages. If you like Urdu so much, nobody will be preventing you from enjoying it. But please don't insult others' emotion for their languages. That's more Islamic way to behave, specially with other Muslims. Thank you

 

[roadrunner]

lol. thnx for reminding me of iskhander mirza. he was from the nawab family of bengal born in murshidabad, which now falls in India. the nawab family was not ethnically bengali. and beside as i said in my earlier post, just coming from the region does not mean you have great fascination for it. there are always dalal/betrayers and he was not a popular person among bengalis. nazimuddin, bogra-they all were somehow related to nawab families in Bengal and bihar and they did not have ethnic bengali roots. the real popular and honest politicians were Suhrawardy, Sher-e-Bangla A.K. Fazlul Huq(who proposed the Lahore Resolution), Sheikh Mujib, Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani- and all of them won elections through out their career in Pakistan and no one was ever given the political rights that they deserved, because there was an ugly secret agenda, whether you like the fact or not. It's not a theory, it's history, and it's a sad history cause it was mastermind by muslims against muslims, for what? For power, money, and ego. It is sad.

I see. Any Bengali who became President or Prime minister of Pakistan was a traitor. Well, if you want to look at it like that you're right, no "real" Bengali was leader of Pakistan, since the 5 or 6 Bengali Presidents and Prime Ministers of Pakistan were all traitors.

The one ethnic group over-represented in Pakistan's prime minister and President role have been Bengalis. If you want to look at Presidents, I've given you two. First there was Khawaja Nazimuddin, Second Governor General (the most powerful role in Pakistan post-independence), and Iskendar Mirza. Both were Bengali, but you dismiss them as traitors, and therefore cannot be Bengali. You're in denial.

 

[gromell]

I see. Any Bengali who became President or Prime minister of Pakistan was a traitor. Well, if you want to look at it like that you're right, no "real" Bengali was leader of Pakistan, since the 5 or 6 Bengali Presidents and Prime Ministers of Pakistan were all traitors.

The one ethnic group over-represented in Pakistan's prime minister and President role have been Bengalis. If you want to look at Presidents, I've given you two. First there was Khawaja Nazimuddin, Second Governor General (the most powerful role in Pakistan post-independence), and Iskendar Mirza. Both were Bengali, but you dismiss them as traitors, and therefore cannot be Bengali. You're in denial.

If you want to talk like a politician with me, I have nothing to say, I am not a politician. But I honestly do hope you actually understand what I wrote. Never did I say " I dismiss them as traitors, and therefore cannot be Bengali." I clearly stated how most of them were not Bengali in the first place. I heard Pakistanis writing in this forum that the great fighter ace M. M. Alam was not Bengali even though he was born in Bengal. Why? because according to them the place of birth does not define ethnicity. Then why can't a Pakistani take a fact that they were not Bengalis?!

I did not say or even meant to say "if you are a traitor you can not be a Bengali". There are all kind of people everywhere. There are Palestinian muslims in Mossad. There are "Indians" who work for ISI. There are "Pakistanis" who work for RAW. 5 out of those 6 PM loved not to attach themselves with Bengali population and hence they were loathed by the Bengalis and they did it cause they were those aristocrats(which is a very unislamic term if you think about it) who did politics not for the people, but for themselves. Anyway I know what I am saying and I think you know that too. I do not like to argue just for the sake of it and I hope you do not like it either.

 

[roadrunner]

If you want to talk like a politician with me, I have nothing to say, I am not a politician. But I honestly do hope you actually understand what I wrote. Never did I say " I dismiss them as traitors, and therefore cannot be Bengali." I clearly stated how most of them were not Bengali in the first place. I heard Pakistanis writing in this forum that the great fighter ace M. M. Alam was not Bengali even though he was born in Bengal. Why? because according to them the place of birth does not define ethnicity. Then why can't a Pakistani take a fact that they were not Bengalis?!

I did not say or even meant to say "if you are a traitor you can not be a Bengali". There are all kind of people everywhere. There are Palestinian muslims in Mossad. There are "Indians" who work for ISI. There are "Pakistanis" who work for RAW. 5 out of those 6 PM loved not to attach themselves with Bengali population and hence they were loathed by the Bengalis and they did it cause they were those aristocrats(which is a very unislamic term if you think about it) who did politics not for the people, but for themselves. Anyway I know what I am saying and I think you know that too. I do not like to argue just for the sake of it and I hope you do not like it either.

You can't just take a quote from what some Pakistanis say on here, and then turn around and re-define something. If Pakistanis on here say that someone born in Bengal, brought up in Bengal is not a Bengali, then they're wrong.

If Alam was born in Bengal, he's a Bengali. No questions.

If Alam was say Punjabi by ethnic group, born in Bengal, he's still Bengali, but of Punjabi origins.

You show me how either Nazimuddin or Mirza were not Bengali. It would be interesting considering they were not only born in Bengal, but their immediate ancestry was also.

 

[gromell]

You can't just take a quote from what some Pakistanis say on here, and then turn around and re-define something. If Pakistanis on here say that someone born in Bengal, brought up in Bengal is not a Bengali, then they're wrong.

If Alam was born in Bengal, he's a Bengali. No questions.

If Alam was say Punjabi by ethnic group, born in Bengal, he's still Bengali, but of Punjabi origins.

You show me how either Nazimuddin or Mirza were not Bengali. It would be interesting considering they were not only born in Bengal, but their immediate ancestry was also.

okay bro. let's go here. I hope, you know Mir Jafar. yes the famous traitor who handed over Bengal to Lord Robert Clive of British East India Company in the infamous Battle of Plassey(Polashi) in 23rd June, 1757. His name is synonymous to traitor in Bangladesh, West Bengal and Pakistan. Now this guy(or his parents) was from Najaf, Iraq. He was an Arab by descent and spoke Arabic as his first language. There are many reference including the famous biography that Clive wrote. The actual Nawab of Bengal Siraj-u-Daulah had roughly 4/5 generals, namely Mir Madan, Mohan Lal, the French East India military ambassador Sinfrey and the Mir Jafar. Nawab made Jafar the head of these generals because he was a Muslim and Arab and Nawab Siraj thought he would never break the trust! But we all know what happened; while the hindu and christian generals fought their lives on their hands Jafar stood beside the battlefield with the most elite formation of the Nawab's cavalry, as pre-planned with Clive. The freedom for the people of the subcontinent and the Muslim rule of it had the start of its demise on that day.

Now do you happen to know, anyhow, that Iskhander Mirza, the guy who you are championing as the first president of Pakistan, is Mir Jafar's direct descendant? They had an Arab lineage and they never related themselves with the people of Bengal and never looked after the well-being of the people of Bengal. Mirza did not help the cause of democracy in Pakistan. He even remarked somewhere that it was better for Pakistani people to have martial law or something like that. Simple history. I am guessing this is not something that the traditional history books in Pakistan schools will ever teach you but it is always good to know the REAL and ACTUAL side of the story.

 

[gromell]

You can't just take a quote from what some Pakistanis say on here, and then turn around and re-define something. If Pakistanis on here say that someone born in Bengal, brought up in Bengal is not a Bengali, then they're wrong.

If Alam was born in Bengal, he's a Bengali. No questions.

If Alam was say Punjabi by ethnic group, born in Bengal, he's still Bengali, but of Punjabi origins.

You show me how either Nazimuddin or Mirza were not Bengali. It would be interesting considering they were not only born in Bengal, but their immediate ancestry was also.

So according to your race theory, Iskhander Mirza was a Pakistani of Arab origin. Or you can say Indian of Arab descent. Murshidabad, his birth place falls in West Bengal, India

 

[roadrunner]

okay bro. let's go here. I hope, you know Mir Jafar. yes the famous traitor that handed over Bengal to Lord Robert Clive of British East India Company in the infamous Battle of Plassey(Polashi) in 23rd June, 1757. His name is synonymous to traitor in Bangladesh, West Bengal and Pakistan. Now this guy(or his parents) was from Najaf, Iraq. He was an Arab by descent and spoke Arabic as his first language. There are many reference including the famous biography that Clive wrote. The actual Nawab of Bengal Siraj-u-Daulah had roughly 4/5 generals, namely Mir Madan, Mohan Lal, the French East India military ambassador Sinfrey and the Mir Jafar. Nawab made Jafar the head of these generals because he was a Muslim and Arab and he thought he would never break the trust! But we all know what happened, while the hindu and christian generals fought their lives on their hands Jafar stood beside with the most elite formation of the Nawab's cavalry, as planned with Clive. The freedom for the people of the subcontinent and the Muslim rule of it had the start of its demise on that day.

A simple calculation. Mir lived around 250 years ago. Let's say he was a full Arab, and he is indeed related to Nazimuddin and the other Bengali president.

Each generation he marries a Bengali, so that after the first marriage, his children are half Bengali/half Arab. After the second generation they are quarter Arab and 75% Bengali. This is in less than 15 years so the 18th century has not yet even arrived. By the time the lineage gets down to Nazimuddin, the Arab would be a miniscule percent in Nazimuddin, if indeed it is there to start with.

This shows more about your mindset, that you regard the actions of someone who may have been related to Nazimuddin 250 years ago as a source of "pollution".

Now do you happen to know, anyhow, that Iskhander Mirza, the guy who you are championing as the first president of Pakistan, is Mir Jafar's direct descendant? They had an Arab lineage and they never related themselves with the people of Bengal and never looked after the well-being of the people of Bengal. Simple history. I am guessing this is not something that the traditional history books in Pakistan schools will ever teach you but it is always good to know the REAL and ACTUAL side of the story.

Read above. Do you think he was fishing Arab women over to Bengal each time he got married?

 

[roadrunner]

So according to your race theory, Iskhander Mirza was a Pakistani of Arab origin. Or you can say Indian of Arab descent. Murshidabad, his birth place falls in West Bengal, India

Iskander Mirza was a Bengali. His origin I don't know. But they weren't Arab, since the Arab in him would have been mixed out. He was Bengali. A local.

 

[gromell]

A simple calculation. Mir lived around 250 years ago. Let's say he was a full Arab, and he is indeed related to Nazimuddin and the other Bengali president.

Each generation he marries a Bengali, so that after the first marriage, his children are half Bengali/half Arab. After the second generation they are quarter Arab and 75% Bengali. This is in less than 15 years so the 18th century has not yet even arrived. By the time the lineage gets down to Nazimuddin, the Arab would be a miniscule percent in Nazimuddin, if indeed it is there to start with.

This shows more about your mindset, that you regard the actions of someone who may have been related to Nazimuddin 250 years ago as a source of "pollution".



Read above. Do you think he was fishing Arab women over to Bengal each time he got married?

I knew you would say this

Iskhander Mirza was not a bengali leader not because his ancestor was traitor. but he upheld his arabic ancestry himself and made himself distant from the bengali population brother! It's the act, not the birth lineage that defines a personality in this world.

 

[gromell]

Iskander Mirza was a Bengali. His origin I don't know. But they weren't Arab, since the Arab in him would have been mixed out. He was Bengali. A local.

How do you know every time a man married in his family, it was a Bengali girl? It was common for Nawabs from princely states to marry off their daughters to the princes from other Nawab families throughout the British India. Beside he was born in undivided India, the brides could be brought from anywhere in the whole India. they were not "regular citizens" like us. They had their signature life style and were proud to live in extravagant style. There are too many accounts where we find brides coming from aristocrat Persian families into the Nawab families of Bengal. In fact none of the famous princess of the Nawab family that I can remember was Bengali. Of course I do not know all of their ancestry but I do remember reading about how they were often married off to cousins or princess from other royal families across British India. I am just surprised how you are determined to establish the theory that they got mixed up with Bengalis. I do not think you have reference on that do you?