Why there's no need to be nostalgic for an undivided India

[nForce]

@That Guy I understand you find it hard to believe, so do I. But I'm surprised and to some extent taken aback by the correlation shared by @SanjeevaniButi

There is indeed an increase in terrorism and similar forms of violence with increasing Muslim population. Why don't you specifically counter that, with logic and statistics if you don't agree with him ?

 

[That Guy]

@That Guy I understand you find it hard to believe, so do I. But I'm surprised and to some extent taken aback by the correlation shared by @SanjeevaniButi

There is indeed an increase in terrorism and similar forms of violence with increasing Muslim population. Why don't you specifically counter that, with logic and statistics if you don't agree with him ?

The entire notion is ridiculous. If I showed a graph of a number of murders in summer, and the amount of ice cream that's eaten, that wouldn't mean the two are somehow related.

The claims were originally made by a dr. Peter Hammond, a right wing, Christian (and known anti -Islam) loon.

Just go through my replies to him, and you'll agree that his claims are completely and utterly worthless.

@Razia Sultana @ayesha.a Take a look at this

No no, don't do that. Don't give his stupidity more attention. All he does is make a claim and present a population rate. That's neither scientific, nor logical. It's something you'd expect from conspiracy theorists.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Correlation does not imply causation. Classic logical fallacy.

Also, very nice ignoring history, and simply connecting unrelated dots.

[Edit ] this is the most misleadingly stupid thing I've ever read (filled with fabrications, and fallacies). Seriously, only complete buffoons, with no critical thinking skills would fall for such foolish ideas.

Poor simpleton he copy pasted that from an extremely hateful anti Islamic site. These people in real life do not have courage to say any of the above mentioned so these particular types of Indians make up a large percentage of readers and contributors of anti Islamic web sites, some of which openly call for murder of every single Muslim whether children or women.

Just giving a trailer of the inside working of a coward Hindutva with several mental disorders which I wouldn't even wish upon my worst enemies.

 

[nForce]

The entire notion is ridiculous. If I showed a graph of a number of murders in summer, and the amount of ice cream that's eaten, that wouldn't mean the two are somehow related.

The claims were originally made by a dr. Peter Hammond, a right wing, Christian (and known anti -Islam) loon.

Just go through my replies to him, and you'll agree that his claims are completely and utterly worthless.

I understand, this is somewhat of an anti-Muslim propaganda, but I'm pointing to the fact that it says certain things to which people will very quickly relate to and at the end of the day, people believe what they want to believe, what appeals the most to them, right or wrong, black or white, those are all perspectives, comes later...Take a look there..

For example Canada, China US etc are largely peaceful countries, people will agree..

Denmark - We have cartoon related problem, UK, Spain we have bombings by terrorists.

France is battling with law and order issues related to Muslims, we have some terrorist activities as well. They have problems bigger than that of Spain or Germany..

Gradually the problems related to terrorism goes on increasing with the increase in Muslim population and all of a sudden it starts making sense.. I understand, a Muslim will oppose the idea, probably I will not buy it either, but a lot of people will.

No no, don't do that. Don't give his stupidity more attention. All he does is make a claim and present a population rate. That's neither scientific, nor logical. It's something you'd expect from conspiracy theorists.

err.. I think the notification has already reached, cannot be taken back now, even if I delete my post.

 

[That Guy]

I understand, this is somewhat of an anti-Muslim propaganda, but I'm pointing to the fact that it says certain things to which people will very quickly relate to and at the end of the day, people believe what they want to believe, what appeals the most to them, right or wrong, black or white, those are all perspectives, comes later...Take a look there..

I'm under no delusion that people are really really dumb, and will believe anything they read on the internet, especially if it backs their own views.

That still doesn't make it factual information.

For example Canada, China US etc are largely peaceful countries, people will agree..

Denmark - We have cartoon related problem, UK, Spain we have bombings by terrorists.

It's important to note that both Denmark and Spain (along with Canada and the US) have facing more right wing Christian white terrorism, than a Muslim one. In fact, in the US, out of the 207 mass shootings, (I quote) 1 was Muslim, and its a similar story with the other nations mentioned.

Muslims, Mass Shootings and the Media | Kelly James Clark
Violence Caused by Far-Right Extremists Has Surpassed That Caused by Domestic Jihadists, Study Says | VICE News

France is battling with law and order issues related to Muslims, we have some terrorist activities as well. They have problems bigger than that of Spain or Germany..

Lone wolf attacks in France don't indicate a trend of an increase in violence perpetrated by French Muslims, there is no data to support such a trend.

Again Europe is not facing an increase in violence from Muslims, but rather, far right racist terrorism.

Extreme right 'biggest threat to EU': Malmström - The Local

Gradually the problems related to terrorism goes on increasing with the increase in Muslim population and all of a sudden it starts making sense.. I understand, a Muslim will oppose the idea, probably I will not buy it either, but a lot of people will.

Except it doesn't make sense, because it ignore historical, social, and scientific reasoning. The very idea defies all logic.

err.. I think the notification has already reached, cannot be taken back now, even if I delete my post.

What's done is done, but please be more careful what you help bring attention to.

 

[Levina]

Anyway, while I think that the Brits should have done more to make sure that partition went off relatively smoothly, and not rushed to abandon the region, I don't think anyone can truly deny that idea of partition was the best thing to happen to the region.

I concur!
Had Mountbatten shown more patience and stuck to the original date in 1948, partition would not have been so bitter.

 

[Spectre]

I concur!
Had Mountbatten shown more patience and stuck to the original date in 1948, partition would not have been so bitter.

As they say hindsight is always 20/20. Who knows what would have happened on 1948, may be some miscreants would have got ample to time to plan heinous massacres instead of spontaneous massacres we saw in 1947. May be unsatisfied Maharajs and Nawabs and Nizams would have had months to go shopping for the best deal for themselves from India and Pakistan both and we would have had few more Kashmirs. Or may be everything would have been orderly and peacefully.

What I mean is instead of looking backwards we should count our blessings and look at ways to improve relationship with each other.

 

[Kambojaric]

Well at least one thing is for certain - Indian self-righteousness never ceases to amaze !

The phrase holier than thou was created for them it seems. I don't believe in generalising but the level of self rightiousnees that Indian nationalists portray is amazing indeed.

 

[Levina]

wasn't pre independent muslims of india part of subcontinent? how did broad minded muslim voted for muslim league in excess of 89%.

I disagree.
We have already seen that broadmindedness after Yakub's hanging and several other cases.They didnt have any problem to insult the judiciary of this nation.
In our state there is a reason for absence of Muslim League southern parts of Kerala ,cant say that about Malabar area.

It is wrong to assume that Indian Muslims put religion over country. Modi's victory and BJP (supported) government in J&K proves me right.
There may be occasional cheering of Pakistani cricket team, or rally for Yakubs but these are one off incidents which get a lot of media support.
Most of the Muslims and Hindus get along well, and for their own good they acknowledge the fact that any disruptive behaviour can be perilous. Religious violences are condemned and gets no support from majority.

As they say hindsight is always 20/20. Who knows what would have happened on 1948, may be some miscreants would have got ample to time to plan heinous massacres instead of spontaneous massacres we saw in 1947. May be unsatisfied Maharajs and Nawabs and Nizams would have had months to go shopping for the best deal for themselves from India and Pakistan both and we would have had few more Kashmirs. Or may be everything would have been orderly and peacefully.
What I mean is instead of looking backwards we should count our blessings and look at ways to improve relationship with each other.

Pessimist!!!

Look at this way, if India was undivided then most probably we would have had both Jinnah and Nehru working shoulder to shoulder to spread the message of secularism in what would have been the largest country in the world(I assume). Nehru’s commitment to secularism can not be doubted. And let's not forget Jinnah's words on the day of independence "You can belong to any religion or caste or creed...that has nothing to do with the business of the State. We are all citizens and equal citizens of one State."

 

[Spectre]

Pessimist!!!

Look at this way, if India was undivided then most probably we would have had both Jinnah and Nehru working shoulder to shoulder to spread the message of secularism in what would have been the largest country in the world(I assume). Nehru’s commitment to secularism can not be doubted. And let's not forget Jinnah's words on the day of independence "You can belong to any religion or caste or creed...that has nothing to do with the business of the State. We are all citizens and equal citizens of one State."

My dear friend, Jinnah was a politician hence whose words were tailored to the occasion and in addition his words on that fateful day are self defeating in nature as existence of these very words make the idea of Pakistan redundant. His multiple statements in a past show an alltogether different chain of thoughts and more reflective of Pakistan we see today. As for Nehru, God gives all men and women some virtue to go along their many faults, secularism was one of the rare virtue our foppish late PM had.

I apologize if I come across as rude and arrogant but not having a good day at work.

Regards

 

[magudi]

The author is insecure.
Higher muslim population is not synonymous to instability. Muslim population of the subcontinent is ostensibly more broad minded.

If you think Ramachandra Guha is a islamophobe you couldn't be more wrong. He is not insinuating that higher muslim population would've led to instability instead he's just stating the obvious that hardliners on both sides would've felt more emboldened to further their agenda if demography were skewed.

 

[Dem!god]

Edited.

 

[navtrek]

If in some parallel reality British India remained as one entity then entire subcontinent would have descended into absolute civil war. It would go on for decades and everyone would be living in war torn mud huts like Afghanistan.

Muslims would have most likely won and Hindu population would become a minority.

Because of severe war for sustained period this new entity would be ultra Islamic and merge with Afghanistan through Casus Belli and so on and so forth.

Indians should be breathing a sigh of relief.

Not really this whole Hindu Muslim thing is too hyped up. Considering the federal structure of States and Central governments. We would have been fine and a good example of unity in diversity.

India is still a good example of communal harmony apart from a few incidents where rifts are created mainly due to vote bank politics.

 

[Gauss]

India of today is a healthy entity among the nations of the world. So i would say India is very good the way it is especially with its non-allied stance and a dash of socialist modernity. The smaller insecure Pakistan had to let it self get played by the superpowers and become decidedly capitalist which coupled with uneducated leaders resulted in its problems of today. So i would say partition worked for India but went against Pakistan.
Also Indians shouldnt mind islam and muslims too much. Muslims and Christians are sides of the same coin. Progression is more suited to these Abrahamics than Hindus. They are not exactly the regressive element in south asia, not atleast in India.

 

[Styx]

it is kind of true, in big numbers.. suddenly jihad.

its happening now in the UK.