Why the creation of Pakistan does not negate my Indian identity

[Verve]

Pakistan is not India and never will be .... and Hindu (& other fools) needs to get over that REALITY!

 

[Hamza913]

Muhammad Bin Qasim brought Islamic Rule in Sindh.

Islam was brought here before him through wanderers of good will.

Just a little correction.

And going back to the post about Indian Muslims.

They are Muslims if they claim to be Muslim and utter the Shahadah.

Why they remained in India? Well that is one big massive debate which can only be shortened out to

' to each their own destiny '

Pakistan has a destiny and a role far greater than one could imagine. We are the She-camel of Saleh and the only democratic Islamic civilization in the world existing today.

Wrong, it's not just shahada. Any Muslim in Hindustan who supports Hindustan against his fellow Muslims isn't a Muslim anymore. Simple as.

They can live there, only so long as they don't support Hindustan's actions against the Muslims.

 

[El Sidd]

Wrong, it's not just shahada. Any Muslim in Hindustan who supports Hindustan against his fellow Muslims isn't a Muslim anymore. Simple as.

They can live there, only so long as they don't support Hindustan's actions against the Muslims.

I can only tell what the legal requirements are as understood by the majority for being a muslim. and that is the shahadah.

Moreover

Pakistan does not differentiate between Indians based on religion, cast or ethnicity or any other yardstick.

India is by its conception a secular state. We respect its freedom to have a secular form of government as decided by the citizens of India.

We see them as Indians.

Now if Muslims are facing genocide in India under a Hindu democracy Pakistan will seek UN resolution to have UN troops inside India for the safety of Muslims because an unstable India is not in Pakistan's best interest.

A country which boasts about having over a few hundred nuclear stockpile cannot be trusted with their nuclear stockpile if political instability and communal tensions are endangering the nukes.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

The sweet irony of it all is that these scumbag fvckers have nowhere to go nor hide. They cannot go to their beloved India despite all of their Indian rhetoric. These scumbags have a divided loyalty. They are like transgenders. Trapped in a body and a place they don't want to belong, but have no where else to go. All they can do is pretend to be something which doesn't even exist. You can only feel pity for the sewer garbage.

The whole nation is celebrating freedom and Pakistani independence, but the the filth is drowned in misery and hate.

Let the scumbags reveal themselves one by one. We need to know who these people are. We need to know them by name and face.

They can stay in their confused state all their miserable lives, I care less. My problem is with the establishment/deep state of Pakistan. I mean, why the fuk, these libturds are allowed to express their filthy ideas on the Pakistani media? You read DAWN these days, the title of the editorials and opinions gives impression as if Pakistan is a failed state , at a time when nation is celebrating its independence. There are no checks and balances in media and deep state is no where to be seen. How hard it is to tell the bosses of the media houses to shape up or else face the consequences.

 

[KRAIT]

Yes i know that, but your low IQ didnt allowed you to understand that i never denied word india or region india existed, i said it was used to refer to a region not to a single entity, country or nation.

No country with name of india ever existed before 1947, a region named india existed which was divided among many empires, cultures, for centuries whose name was derived from mighty indus and not the filthy ganga shithole..


Find me your imaginary country called india in map of south asia which later was divided

This proves my point. Concept of nation came later. But we were and are still Indians.

Rest with your abuses....you showed your mentality.

 

[KN-1]

This proves my point. Concept of nation came later. But we were and are still Indians.

Rest with your abuses....you showed your mentality.

you didnt prove anthing sanghi , you still have to prove that you existed as one unit, you still have to prove that someone divided your unit,

its like Pakistan adopt Asia as its name in 2017 and start claiming all ancient history of Asia. their is different between historic indian subcontinent named after mighty indus and artificial state called republic of india created in 1947 by british..

 

[KRAIT]

you didnt prove anthing bharati, you still have to prove that you existed as one unit,


its like Pakistan adopt Asia as its name in 2017 and start claiming all ancient history of Asia...

Your education reflects here. Can't feel anything but sorry about you. India doesn't need to prove anything, we are in history rather than a nation which born just 70 years ago on this day.

The name India has been long before anyone heard about Pakistan.

 

[KN-1]

Your education reflects here. Can't feel anything but sorry about you. India doesn't need to prove anything, we are in history rather than a nation which born just 70 years ago on this day.

The name India has been long before anyone heard about Pakistan.

yeah my education reflects that i am not a sanghi with IQ of a subhuman like you,

true you dont have to prove anything as long as you are uttering sanghi bullshit in your shakha, but you have to prove when you discuss it on nuetral forum..

As for rest of BS, refer back to my Pakistan and Asia example.. .

You proved nothing except you are a sanghi..

 

[KRAIT]

yeah my education reflects that i am not a sanghi with IQ of a subhuman like you,

true you dont have to prove anything as long as you are uttering sanghi bullshit in your shakha, but you have to prove when you discuss it on nuetral forum..

As for rest of BS, refer back to my Pakistan and Asia example.. .

You proved nothing except you are a sanghi..

Expected this reply....calling me sanghi.....Hahahaha...You Pakistani always do that. Thats the way to shut you.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Why the creation of Pakistan does not negate my Indian identity

There is something about India as an idea which transcends modern-day political configurations. It is the idea of India as a huge mass of land which stretches from Balochistan to present day Bangladesh. This idea of India is independent of any political configuration.

In fact, during the past thousands of years, this mass of land has very seldom been a unified political entity. And yet, there is something which loosely unites the inhabitants despite their substantial religious and at times even ethno-linguistic differences. After all, let us not forget that more than 200 languages are spoken in India.

There is something, perhaps difficult to articulate, which enables this huge stretch of land to be called India irrespective of various political shapes it has assumed over thousands of years.

My country Pakistan was created only 70 years ago. In my eyes, the current political landscape consisting of India, Bangladesh and Pakistan is just one of the many political permutations the Indian subcontinent has witnessed over thousands of years. This current political formation does not mean that I have ceased to be an Indian.

Yes, at this point, I will say that I am a proud Pakistani. I opened my eyes here and I love it intensely despite the fact that I have often been severely critical of the way things are being run here. But at the same time, I would also like to say that I have an Indian identity as well.

I am the heir to the same rich past and I have the same claim to India as those who belong to modern political India. It is this great common heritage, underpinned by the idea of India independent of political configurations, which unites me with those who live in the present political entity of India. It is our common heritage irrespective of our different political, and for that matter even cultural differences – because modern political India also has many sub-cultures which differ substantially from each other – which unites us.

Yes, those who worship the idea of the Two-Nation Theory will negate it and ironically their sentiments will find endorsement by a Hindutva brigade. The former thinks that identity is perhaps a monolithic phenomenon and Pakistan equates to an antithesis of India. They think that identity is solely a political cum religious construct and since Pakistan is a separate political entity, we are now just Pakistanis in every respect of the way.

The political Pakistan means the fostering of a completely new identity and a complete divorce from the past. For them, their past starts from the point their ancestors converted to Islam and their identity morphs into something concrete only after the creation of Pakistan. And this group, consisting of so-called nationalists, is also wary of ethnic identities and aligns itself with the state cultivated narrative of “one Pakistan, one nation”.

On the other hand, the Indian right-wingers think that since Pakistan became a separate state, their country was “partitioned” and an unforgivable sin has been committed. By creating Pakistan, its inhabitants have divided mother India. They keep on talking about the glory of the Indus valley civilisation and mention India as a historically single political entity which in 1947 was divided along religious lines.

Well, needless to say, I disagree with both parties. My premise is that people have multiple identities. I am a Pakistani, a Punjabi, a Muslim, and of course an Indian in the sense I have mentioned above. In fact, we all have multiple identities. At times, one identity may become dominant due to certain circumstances and may even take on a strong political expression, such as a demand for a separate state. However, even if one does so, the other identities do not simply disappear.

So in my case, my Indian identity is there despite my Pakistani identity. I may not consciously ‘choose’ it, but for me it is not only a matter of choice, as it is an identity shaped by history and culture transmitted through generations. It is that common historical heritage which binds me together with those who live in the neighbouring political India.

I have been fortunate to know numerous Indians at both of my alma maters, Cornell University and Syracuse University. Some of my best friends are Indians and I am amazed at how much we have in common despite an apparently ‘hostile’ political situation between the two countries. And they do not belong to North India only (as it is often said that North India is culturally closer to Pakistan) but from the South as well. It is this commonality which transcends political and even ethnic and religious differences which binds me to them. I do not think of them as foes but as my brothers and sisters with whom I share a great common heritage.

And yet I will not apologise for Pakistan, as it is my country and I opened my eyes here. I will nevertheless reiterate that the creation of Pakistan, at least in my eyes, does not negate my Indian identity and origins. I would like to remind all those who are bent upon imposing the Arab Wahabi culture on us that it is alien to us.

Today, as our countries turn 70, I believe that realising our common identity is important, as it will lead to the erosion of bitterness. Yes, modern Pakistan and India are a reality, but then so is our great common heritage. Yes, it is important for us to be loyal to our political states, but at the same time not overlook the joint heritage.

There is an overarching identity which unites us despite our political differences. I sincerely wish we acknowledge that and move forward as independent but friendly political states.

I am a Pakistani Indian…


Raza Habib Raja
The author is a recent Cornell graduate and currently pursuing his PhD in political science at Maxwell School, Syracuse University. He has also worked for a leading development finance institution in Pakistan. He is a freelance journalist whose works have been published at Huffington Post, Dawn (Pakistan), Express Tribune (Pakistan) and Pak Tea House. He tweets @razaraja (twitter.com/razaraja?lang=en)

Why the creation of Pakistan does not negate my Indian identity

There is something about India as an idea which transcends modern-day political configurations. It is the idea of India as a huge mass of land which stretches from Balochistan to present day Bangladesh. This idea of India is independent of any political configuration.

In fact, during the past thousands of years, this mass of land has very seldom been a unified political entity. And yet, there is something which loosely unites the inhabitants despite their substantial religious and at times even ethno-linguistic differences. After all, let us not forget that more than 200 languages are spoken in India.

There is something, perhaps difficult to articulate, which enables this huge stretch of land to be called India irrespective of various political shapes it has assumed over thousands of years.

My country Pakistan was created only 70 years ago. In my eyes, the current political landscape consisting of India, Bangladesh and Pakistan is just one of the many political permutations the Indian subcontinent has witnessed over thousands of years. This current political formation does not mean that I have ceased to be an Indian.

Yes, at this point, I will say that I am a proud Pakistani. I opened my eyes here and I love it intensely despite the fact that I have often been severely critical of the way things are being run here. But at the same time, I would also like to say that I have an Indian identity as well.

I am the heir to the same rich past and I have the same claim to India as those who belong to modern political India. It is this great common heritage, underpinned by the idea of India independent of political configurations, which unites me with those who live in the present political entity of India. It is our common heritage irrespective of our different political, and for that matter even cultural differences – because modern political India also has many sub-cultures which differ substantially from each other – which unites us.

Yes, those who worship the idea of the Two-Nation Theory will negate it and ironically their sentiments will find endorsement by a Hindutva brigade. The former thinks that identity is perhaps a monolithic phenomenon and Pakistan equates to an antithesis of India. They think that identity is solely a political cum religious construct and since Pakistan is a separate political entity, we are now just Pakistanis in every respect of the way.

The political Pakistan means the fostering of a completely new identity and a complete divorce from the past. For them, their past starts from the point their ancestors converted to Islam and their identity morphs into something concrete only after the creation of Pakistan. And this group, consisting of so-called nationalists, is also wary of ethnic identities and aligns itself with the state cultivated narrative of “one Pakistan, one nation”.

On the other hand, the Indian right-wingers think that since Pakistan became a separate state, their country was “partitioned” and an unforgivable sin has been committed. By creating Pakistan, its inhabitants have divided mother India. They keep on talking about the glory of the Indus valley civilisation and mention India as a historically single political entity which in 1947 was divided along religious lines.

Well, needless to say, I disagree with both parties. My premise is that people have multiple identities. I am a Pakistani, a Punjabi, a Muslim, and of course an Indian in the sense I have mentioned above. In fact, we all have multiple identities. At times, one identity may become dominant due to certain circumstances and may even take on a strong political expression, such as a demand for a separate state. However, even if one does so, the other identities do not simply disappear.

So in my case, my Indian identity is there despite my Pakistani identity. I may not consciously ‘choose’ it, but for me it is not only a matter of choice, as it is an identity shaped by history and culture transmitted through generations. It is that common historical heritage which binds me together with those who live in the neighbouring political India.

I have been fortunate to know numerous Indians at both of my alma maters, Cornell University and Syracuse University. Some of my best friends are Indians and I am amazed at how much we have in common despite an apparently ‘hostile’ political situation between the two countries. And they do not belong to North India only (as it is often said that North India is culturally closer to Pakistan) but from the South as well. It is this commonality which transcends political and even ethnic and religious differences which binds me to them. I do not think of them as foes but as my brothers and sisters with whom I share a great common heritage.

And yet I will not apologise for Pakistan, as it is my country and I opened my eyes here. I will nevertheless reiterate that the creation of Pakistan, at least in my eyes, does not negate my Indian identity and origins. I would like to remind all those who are bent upon imposing the Arab Wahabi culture on us that it is alien to us.

Today, as our countries turn 70, I believe that realising our common identity is important, as it will lead to the erosion of bitterness. Yes, modern Pakistan and India are a reality, but then so is our great common heritage. Yes, it is important for us to be loyal to our political states, but at the same time not overlook the joint heritage.

There is an overarching identity which unites us despite our political differences. I sincerely wish we acknowledge that and move forward as independent but friendly political states.

I am a Pakistani Indian…


Raza Habib Raja
The author is a recent Cornell graduate and currently pursuing his PhD in political science at Maxwell School, Syracuse University. He has also worked for a leading development finance institution in Pakistan. He is a freelance journalist whose works have been published at Huffington Post, Dawn (Pakistan), Express Tribune (Pakistan) and Pak Tea House. He tweets @razaraja (twitter.com/razaraja?lang=en)

Lol......lol.......lol......this guy has either been drinking heavily or smoking illegal substances en masse. Perhaps he may have suffered a severe head injury........

The opinions of an individual means nothing in the context of a nation or race. IF any of what he said was true then Pakistan would not have been created. He seriously sounds like a black nationalist who claims that blacks are responsible for White Western Civilisation.............

Pakistanis in the main are a different race, culture and have a different heritage to modern day indians. We have distinct physical appearance/features that distinguishes us from indians. The difference between us and indians is too large and unbridgeable. Any connection the 2 nations may have had in the past has all but died forever. The destiny and future of Pakistan is intertwinned with that of China and Turkey. These 2 nations are the ONLY 2 countries that really matter to Pakistan.

As far as india is concerned, from our POV it is just an eternal enemy that we must know how to defend ourselves against. That's all. Nothing else. The relationship that Pakistan has with india is the same as that between Iran and Israel.

Saying indians and Pakistanis are the same is like saying the Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians and Turks are the same as indians. Both statements are insane, ridiculous and laughable.

 

[KN-1]

Expected this reply....calling me sanghi.....Hahahaha...You Pakistani always do that. Thats the way to shut you.

lol, low IQ sanghi have nothing to prove his claims not interested in your bla blah..

Real indian

 

[padamchen]

Lol......lol.......lol......this guy has either been drinking heavily or smoking illegal substances en masse. Perhaps he may have suffered a severe head injury........

The opinions of an individual means nothing in the context of a nation or race. IF any of what he said was true then Pakistan would not have been created. He seriously sounds like a black nationalist who claims that blacks are responsible for White Western Civilisation.............

Pakistanis in the main are a different race, culture and have a different heritage to modern day indians. We have distinct physical appearance/features that distinguishes us from indians. The difference between us and indians is too large and unbridgeable. Any connection the 2 nations may have had in the past has all but died forever. The destiny and future of Pakistan is intertwinned with that of China and Turkey. These 2 nations are the ONLY 2 countries that really matter to Pakistan.

As far as india is concerned, from our POV it is just an eternal enemy that we must know how to defend ourselves against. That's all. Nothing else. The relationship that Pakistan has with india is the same as that between Iran and Israel.

Saying indians and Pakistanis are the same is like saying the Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians and Turks are the same as indians. Both statements are insane, ridiculous and laughable.

Bhai China I can understand.

But Turkey?

There is Iran and Afghanistan in between.

Yeh Turkey kahan se aa tapka?

Cheers, Doc

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Bhai China I can understand.

But Turkey?

There is Iran and Afghanistan in between.

Yeh Turkey kahan se aa tapka?

Cheers, Doc

Historically, Pakistan has always enjoyed a strong relationship with Turkey at all levels. From people to people contact to government level. We are now stepping up our relationship in terms of joint economic, defence and political ventures. This has increased massively in the last 5 years. General Musharraf gave a speach in the Turkish parliament around 10 years ago. Here in London UK, marriages between Pakistanis and Turks are becoming common due to our shared religion. South Eastern Turks are also related to Pakistani tribes in the NW of our country.

PS Iran AND Afghanistan is not in between Pakistan and Turkey. Only Iran is. Pakistan shares a border with Iran. The distance between Pakistan and Turkey is similar to the distance between Pakistan and Bangladesh/Eastern india.

 

[padamchen]

Historically, Pakistan has always enjoyed a strong relationship with Turkey at all levels. From people to people contact to government level. We are now stepping up our relationship in terms of joint economic, defence and political ventures. This has increased massively in the last 5 years. General Musharraf gave a speach in the Turkish parliament around 10 years ago. Here in London UK, marriages between Pakistanis and Turks are becoming common due to our shared religion. South Eastern Turks are also related to Pakistani tribes in the NW of our country.

PS Iran AND Afghanistan is not in between Pakistan and Turkey. Only Iran is. Pakistan shares a border with Iran. The distance between Pakistan and Turkey is similar to the distance between Pakistan and Bangladesh/Eastern india.

That's exactly my point.

There is nothing they can do to help you when the chips are down. If Iran is not on board.

Cheers, Doc

 

[SecularNationalist]

I would like to remind all those who are bent upon imposing the Arab Wahabi culture on us that it is alien to us.

I absolutely agree.