Why 'secular' Narendra Modi bashers must be ignored

[KS]

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one. My own assessment was not based on newsreports alone. Reports by HRW, NHRC and several other citizen's fora headed by retired judges, IPS/IAS officers and social activists contributed hugely to shape my views.

And many of them like Teesta being discredited for doctoring the evidence, tutoring the witness makes one to take these 'social activists' with a pinch of salt.

Anyway as you said, lets agree to disagree and I hope time will tell the truth - either way.

 

[53fd]

Internationally recognized metric for calculating BPL takes into accout only the expenditure for Food (and does not include Education or Healthcare expenditures).

So by that Gujarat BPL is 16.75 as laready proved by my link and be aware that I am not contradicting this with the Tendulkar committee report which says Gujarat BPL is 31%. It is just that the Tendulkar committee report is an India-specific one with a newly defined criteria for BPL which includes Education and Health care expenditures also ann hence the increase in BPL.

Both are not self-contradictory. But if you want to compare in the traditional sense then 16.75 is the figure to go about.



Why are you posting the same thing again and again as if I disputed the Tendulkar committee findings.

What Tendulkar committee said and I say doesn't contradict each other -Going by the classical definition of BPL (used worldwide) the poverty rate in Guj is 16.75 % and going by the newly instituted India-specific Tenduljkar committee report it is 31%

Understand what is being spoken here before spamming the forum with the same link again and again.

Again, you say the classical definition of BPL used worldwide, but you never gave any evidence that you actually used that. India defines the poverty line at 500 rupees a month, whereas the world standard for the poverty line is $1 a day. So of course, the % of Indians living below the poverty line defined by India will be less than the international standard:

The World Bank estimates that 456 million Indians (41.6% of the total Indian population) now live under the global poverty line of US$ 1.25 per day (PPP). This means that a third of the global poor now reside in India. Official figures estimate that 27.5% of Indians lived below the national poverty line in 2004-2005.

A 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees (approximately US$0.50 nominal; US$2 PPP) per day.

eliminate Poverty, eliminate Poverty, eliminate Poverty from india | Eliminate Poverty

 

[KS]

Again, you say the classical definition of BPL used worldwide, but you never gave any evidence that you actually used that. India defines the poverty line at 500 rupees a month, whereas the world standard for the poverty line is $1 a day. So of course, the % of Indians living below the poverty line defined by India will be less than the international standard:

I think you are so confused as to not know what you are speaking without taking into account what 1 Dollar can get in US and 1 Rupee can get in India.

Let me try one last time - In India there are two metrics now used to measure poverty - one is the classical method used worldwide whereby only the Food expenditure is taken into account and according to it BPL stands at 16.75 % and the New method whereby the BPL stands at 31%

In India, so far the poverty line is measured only in terms of the food basket as per the standards laid down in 1998 according to which, an urban family (of five) earning Rs.2200 per month or less and a rural family (of five) earning Rs.1650 or less is poor. The new standards of the Planning Commission would consider more parameters than only the sufficient food basket for assessing poverty. Earlier a family was called poor if did not have the required income to buy sufficient food containing a minimum number of calories (2100 for urban areas and 2400 for rural areas) per day. Now, the minimum income required to rise above the poverty line, apart from food, would also depend on expenditure on education and health.

India to adopt a new poverty line to identify poor


As I said first go through the Planning commision link I gave - it has all the answers you are looking for, provided you genuinely want to know. If you are here only for whose d**k is bigger and to discredit Modi, please carry on. I rest my case.

 

[53fd]

I think you are so confused as to not know what you are speaking without taking into account what 1 Dollar can get in US and 1 Rupee can get in India.

Let me try one last time - In India there are two metrics now used to measure poverty - one is the classical method used worldwide whereby only the Food expenditure is taken into account and according to it BPL stands at 16.75 % and the New method whereby the BPL stands at 31%



India to adopt a new poverty line to identify poor


As I said first go through the Planning commision link I gave - it has all the answers you are looking for, provided you genuinely want to know. If you are here only for whose d**k is bigger and to discredit Modi, please carry on. I rest my case.

This is what you said before:

Going by the classical definition of BPL (used worldwide) the poverty rate in Guj is 16.75 %

Hence, you are contradicting yourself with these two statements:

Going by the classical definition of BPL (used worldwide) the poverty rate in Guj is 16.75 %

what 1 Dollar can get in US and 1 Rupee can get in India.

This link: "India to adopt a new poverty line to identify poor" only proves that India does not use the classical definition of BPL (used worldwide) used worldwide. Check and mate

If you are here only for whose d**k is bigger and to discredit Modi, please carry on. I rest my case

Don't be so insecure

 

[KS]

This link: India to adopt a new poverty line to identify poor only proves that India does not use the classical definition of BPL (used worldwide) used worldwide. Anymore, and hence the increase in Poverty rate statistic. Not an increase in Poverty itself

My answer in Red. Infact thanks for substantiating what I have been telling all along.

Don't be so insecure

Awww. Don't flatter yourself.

 

[53fd]

India does not use the classical definition of BPL (used worldwide) used worldwide anymore, and hence the increase in Poverty rate statistic. Not an increase in Poverty itself

Let's suppose India used the classical definition of the BPL used worldwide before, which is $1 a day. The % of Indians living below the poverty line came out to be 41.6%. Now, India uses their own poverty line of 20 rupees a day, & % of Indians living the below the poverty line came out to be 27%. I'm sorry, how is this:

and hence the increase in Poverty rate statistic.[/B]

true in anyway?

You're getting confused here. I'm not talking about an increase or decrease of poverty level in India, I'm talking about whether India's official figures overestimate or underestimate the poverty levels in India in relation to the international poverty line of $1 a day. First you said that the poverty rate of Gujarat is 16.75% as per the international definition, then I proved you wrong that they don't use the international standard. Then you said the higher % poverty seen is because India shifted from the internationally defined standard to their own definition., while the opposite is true.

India's official figures which you quoted for Gujarat grossly underestimate the poverty levels, & if you shifted from India's poverty standards of 20 rupees a day to the internationally recognized $1 a day definition, the poverty rate in Gujarat would shift from 16.75% to 31.6% (or somewhere close to that figure).

 

[KS]

Let's suppose India used the classical definition of the BPL used worldwide before, which is $1 a day. The % of Indians living below the poverty line came out to be 41.6%. Now, India use their own poverty line of 20 rupees a day, & % of Indians living the below the poverty line came out to be 27%. I'm sorry, how is this: true in anyway?

You're getting confused here. I'm not talking about an increase or decrease of poverty level in India, I'm talking about whether India's official figures overestimate or underestimate the poverty levels in India in relation to the international poverty line of $1 a day. First you said that the poverty rate of Gujarat is 16.75% as per the international definition, then I proved you wrong that they don't use the international standard. Then you said the higher % poverty seen is because India shifted from the internationally defined standard to their own definition., while the opposite is true.

India's official figures which you quoted for Gujarat grossly underestimate the poverty levels, & if you shifted from India's standards of 20 rupees a day to the internationally recognized $1 a day definition, the poverty rate in Gujarat would shift from 16.75% to 31.6% (or somewhere close to that figure).

As I said you still have not got that the 31% figure is due to the addition of Health and Education Expenditures added which is unique to India.

Also understand/get the role of PPP in calculating the BPL and voila your misconception is cleared.

BTW link for post ?

 

[53fd]

First understand/get the role of PPP in calculating the BPL and voila your misconception is cleared.

BTW link for post ?

Why don't you explain it to me? Link for what post?

 

[KS]

Why don't you explain it to me? Link for what post?

I cant spoon feed you everything. Google is your friend.

The basic thing is going by the old estimates used worldwide whereby only the Food Expenditure is used for BPL calculation Gujarat has 16.75% below poverty line.

But with the adoption of the new India specific Tendulkar committee report the Poverty statistic increased to 31%.

 

[53fd]

As I said you still have not got that the 31% figure is due to the addition of Health and Education Expenditures added which is unique to India.

Also understand/get the role of PPP in calculating the BPL and voila your misconception is cleared.

BTW link for post ?

I have, which is why I said, (or somewhere close to that figure) in my above post.

As I said, a 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees (approximately US$0.50 nominal; US$2 PPP) per day. I think that is enough to tell the real poverty levels in India & Gujarat. Forget for a second as to whether the poverty levels in India are 27% or 41.6%, or the poverty levels in Gujarat are 16.75% or 31.6%, this:

A 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees (approximately US$0.50 nominal; US$2 PPP) per day.

is what is important. And India's official figures grossly underestimate the actual poverty levels as seen through the international standards.

 

[KS]

I have, which is why I said, (or somewhere close to that figure) in my above post.

As I said, a 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees (approximately US$0.50 nominal; US$2 PPP) per day. I think that is enough to tell the real poverty levels in India & Gujarat. Forget about whether the poverty levels in India are 27% or 41.6%, 16.75% or 31.6%, this:



is what is important.

What a simpleton way to extrapolate the number of people living on certain amount into poverty.

Does these statistics from US take into account the massively subsidised food,cereals and Kerosene that is supplied through the PDS scheme.Of course not.

Infact in many states certain amount of rice is provided free of cost for population BPL.

As for the bolded part your 'thinking' may have been right if the incidence of poverty is uniform throughout India which is not the case. Gujarat is one of the richest states in India.

So please dont do any 'thinkings' on your own and just go by facts.

 

[53fd]

What a simpleton way to extrapolate the number of people living on certain amount into poverty.

Does these statistics from US take into account the massively subsidised food,cereals and Kerosene that is supplied through the PDS scheme.Of course not.

Infact in many states certain amount of rice is provided free of cost for population BPL.

As for the bolded part your 'thinking' may have been right if the incidence of poverty is uniform throughout India which is not the case. Gujarat is one of the richest states in India.

So please dont do any 'thinkings' on your own and just go by facts.

If I could find a World Bank report that broke down India's poverty % rates by state, trust me, the poverty rate would be much higher than 17.6%, just like the national poverty rate as per Indian official figures is 27%, whereas by the internationally recognized standards, it is 41.6%. Unfortunately, there are no international reports that break up the poverty % rates by state, they just give the national levels. So be happy with your delusions/'thinkings'

 

[KS]

If I could find a World Bank report that broke down India's poverty % rates by state, trust me, the poverty rate would be much higher than 17.6%, just like the national poverty rate as per Indian official figures is 27%, whereas by the internationally recognized standards, it is 41.6%. Unfortunately, there are no international reports that break up the poverty % rates by state, they just give the national levels. So be happy with your delusions/'thinkings'

Trust you ?? Seriously ?? Over the numerous links from various Govt agencies ??

For the bolded part - Till then

 

[Burnz]

Even Jinnah was a Gujarati.

Even Pakistanis will be happy if Narendra Modi becomes PM as he has the same Gujarati blood of Jinnah.

 

[Swati Shukla]

We need modi in India! I'm Gujarati myself, I know what he has done for Gujarat. People may moan about the height of of Narmada dam and the amount of area had to evacuated but it generates 1,450 MW power way more than some small states total electricity production.

He has been signing the MoUs worth 400-500 billion dollars [nearly half of the India's economy] for past three years. You may argue that they are just MoUs not contracts but imagine even 40-50% [to be bit realistic] of the MoUs get implemented?

He has changed the whole face Ahmedabad. And the fly overs, roads, infrastructure, different lanes for fast buses and everything he has done is just marvellous. Opened emergency lines for taxis, rickshaws, police, fire truck and ambulance. [and yes it actually does work they do come really fast.]

Some may argue that he is bit of a dictator but if this is the dictatorship, i'd much prefer this. And corruption has also decreased repidly, I'm not saying there is no corruption in Gujarat there is so much corruption but it's way less than what it was before he came in power. He also has his own personal telephone service, you can directly talk to him if you have a solution or advice to give. In short he is Anil Kapoor of NAYAK!

And thats why we love modi.