Why russia is offering pak its best weapons

[illusion8]

Didn't Russia offer China the Su-35 at first! But the Chinese weren't willing to purchase a big number (they wanted half of the 48 Russia wanted to sell them). So, if Russia can sell some of its most advanced weapons to China (S-400), it can sell them to Pakistan too.

Also, India has reduced its dependency on Russian weapons (going for Rafale instead of Su-35), thus Russia needs new customers to meet the gap and they can't be picky with their current economical condition. But Russia will not offer joint-production weapons (PAK-FA and Brahmos) to countries like Pakistan or China without India's approval.

And for those saying why would Russia need Pakistan. It doesn't, but it needs China, they bailed them out during the recent sanctions or did the most they could. And China needs Pakistan as an ally to deal with India. Not saying they can't take them alone but they have too many countries in the region (South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc) to do it all alone.

Chinese are under a western arms embargo which limits their source to Russia which doesn't automatically translate to Russia selling advanced systems to Pakistan.

India has been using a mix of western and Russian systems from day one..though the Americans opened up very recently..French mirages..german subs..British carriers have been with the Indian forces from a long while.

Russia as policy sells it's most advanced systems to very few clients..India and China fall into that category.

Though Russia has been providing top of their line equipment, India has had major supply and delay issues with Russian suppliers.... wrt..china ..Russia has the issue of counterfeiting and reverse engineering.

Of course..There is a new power block emerging that involves the Russian and the Chinese and their mates...so one can expect some sales across this block. Pakistan still is considered to be in the western block due to their relations with the Americans, plus Russians have had great relations with India traditionally. hence..I doubt the Russians will open their doors much to pakistanis.

 

[sady]

Well I think Russia has realised India is not going to buy Russian stuff for the sake of being pro Russia.They are going to buy if it is better than what West offers them so in a way India has lost its leverage with Russia. They know India will buy their prime products anyway. Products with comparable technology, maybe Russia is ready to face the loss in view of long term interests. India is in US camp even if it is in self denial.

 

[majid mehmood]

So you are insider Let me tell you India Already have Infrastructure and Capabilities too Manufacture FGFA or T-50 in india the Time Frame you are Giving is of HAL Manufactured FGFA

JOKE OF THE DAY
u indians cannot manufacture a fully functional plane in 35 years and telling can make a stealth plane in 5 years
are u drunked or what

 

[NKVD]

JOKE OF THE DAY
u indians cannot manufacture a fully functional plane in 35 years and telling can make a stealth plane in 5 years
are u drunked or what

For Sharpen you Knowledge HAL is Manufactured almost 180 MKI's Since a Last decade which is considered One of the Most Sophisticated 4 + gen aircraft in the region.
The HAL Production History goes Beyond 50 years

 

[Windjammer]

Basically Russian aircraft in PAF hands could do same for the Russian manufacturers, what Israelis did for French Mirage in the six day war.

 

[Asli Lahori1]

For Sharpen you Knowledge HAL is Manufactured almost 180 MKI's Since a Last decade which is considered One of the Most Sophisticated 4 + gen aircraft in the region.
The HAL Production History goes Beyond 50 years

HAL is not manufacturing MKIs. It is assembling the plans. There is one heck of difference between manufacturing and assembling.

 

[Viper0011.]

Pakistan can offer Russia what India cannot. Access to Arabian Sea.

Both Pakistan and Turkey are very crucial for Russia's naval projection.

Iran is an alternative to Pakistan but Iranians are more Independent than Pakistan when it comes to making such offers or getting into such alliances.

Very balanced post. Good analysis. Glad to see intelligence vs. everything India and India focused. You should write more in other threads. There aren't a lot of "balanced" posters on here from India.

Also, Iranians are independent, but there is "realistic independence" and "stupid independence". They are the later. A smart and most beneficial decision is the one made for strategic purposes, Iran lacks that "strategic partnership" view. While people running Pakistan come from global business background. They are ALL about strategic partnerships as all parties involved get something out of it (something that India did very well till Modi came).

Russians and the Chinese will get connected with Pakistan through the roads, rail and through the Ocean (airways already exist). Just between these three countries, you are talking 1.7 billion people within days of local drive. Now add Pakistan's influence on the ME / Muslim countries, you are looking at another seriously lucrative market for pretty much everything, with plenty of money. If there is any country who can make Saudi's and UAE buy Russian or the Chinese weapons worth a few billion, its Pakistan (a few billions is really a little investment for these countries like small change as they are filthy rich)!!!! So you have to see the bigger picture.

Pakistan is also a nuke power too and it poised to become a regional military power, and the top 15th economy within the next 10-15 years. Everyone sees that and knows that. Ten years from now, Pakistan's military and economic influence would be tremendously larger than today. So these countries want to form strategic partnership with Pakistan early so everyone reaps the benefits of Pakistan's growth.

 

[GURU DUTT]

HAL is not manufacturing MKIs. It is assembling the plans. There is one heck of difference between manufacturing and assembling.

just asking what do you manufacture yourself ... i mean your nation

@waz , @Irfan Baloch , @Slav Defence @Oscar


why mods sir why are the rules of flaming and troll baiting diffrent for pakistanies and indian posters

 

[pkd]

Another lesser know fact is that Pakistan's largest cellular network i.e Mobilink having annual revenues greater than USD 7 billion [2007] is owned by a Russian Company.

 

[CHI RULES]

so which super weapons u got from Russia ? please enlighten us !

Pakistan has lesser strategic depth and smaller area to defend so it is not wise that we should blindly purchase every Russian weapon offered i.e every country has different doctrine and requirements. For eg If Russia is really offering Su35 we can't go for them blindly, as Ruskies can't offer us credit or soft loans like USA, similarly we can't rely fully on the EW suite and Radar offered by them along with armament, due to reliability issues as Russia is cash stripped and main supplier of weapons to India. So their is a risk as one of my friend already pointed out that they mat give required data about their own tech easily to India or even some of their rogue elements , making a beast like Su35 useless.

May be if Su 35 is on table Paf may like to have Chinese EW suite,Radar and weaponry integrated with it instead of original one. Which technically may be very difficult and costly as Indian have experience of SU 30, so viable option for Pak is to get more modern and powerful engines from Russia to include.

It is not abt what major items Russia is offerings affordability it;s more to do with our needs.

I can easily provide substitutes of Russian big weapons easily available now or in near future from China.

1. Armata - Type 99 latest variant.
2. S400 ( not required by Pak) may be HQ9 in small numbers.
3. Mi35 ( may be required by P.A) or we may go for Changhe Z-18
4.T50 - J31
5. KA 52 -CAIC WZ-10

Pak Jf 17 may be developed due to reliability issues pertaining to foreign Jets.

 

[NKVD]

Tejas is prime example

So is Sukhoi 30MKI HAL Manufactured over 180.

T50 - J31

Its JoKe or what PAK FA is Proven Project with Proven Technology,J-31 is just a Test bed

 

[airmarshal]

Hi,

Thank you for the tag---. Russia has decided that a bird in hand is better than two in the bush----. Most of the heavy weaponery in indian military is of Russian origin---so Russia has india by the ballz---like the us has Pakistan----.

We can squirm----sneeze or scream---but there are not too many choices----.specially for india---aircraft----submarines---tanks---navy ship---.

So---what can india do---nothing much---.

The only thing India can do is to see the Indian cyberspace warriors posting jingoistic comments.

 

[Hulk]

like indigenous Barhamos and nuclear subs and TEJAS?

I know and accept the reality, does not live in lala land.

 

[NKVD]

HAL is not manufacturing MKIs. It is assembling the plans. There is one heck of difference between manufacturing and assembling.

KID MKI is a Indian Variant with substantial percentage of Indian designed and manufactured avionics. They took six years to develop from start to MKI. Advanced avionics were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" (a Tamil name for the victorious lance carried by the youthful Lord Karthikeya or Murugan, a son of Parvati and Shiva) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. Indian avionics have been received and acknowledged enthusiastically by the Russian principals.

The following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

HAL Time to Time Upgrade MKI'S Like Adding Brahmos With It And Integration of RAM Coatings and DASH HMDS Topsight in Future

 

[araz]

JOKE OF THE DAY
u indians cannot manufacture a fully functional plane in 35 years and telling can make a stealth plane in 5 years
are u drunked or what

PLEASE DONT DO THAT!!!!!Let it be known that the Indians are great masters at making their own planes. They can and should definitely make a stealth fighter on their own or even with help from their cronies. They should invest as much money as is required to do so and not spare a single penny. It would be so great for IAF to have another feather in their cap after Tejas which is aoon to be inducted in IAF.
A