Why Russia Is Getting Closer To Pakistan And Abandoning India?

[ghameed]

doleouts or cash outs or hand outs, it doesn't really matter. ultimately this "take a neutral" role vis a vis u.s. versus russia while expecting russia to look after your interests was only work for so long.

India is not concerned about Russian interests except when it pertains to a threat to Indian sovereignty, which Russia respects. This mutual respect by no means amounts to taking sides in a traditional Cold War rivalry , which is anyway in its last phase of extinction. New power blocs are being formed , and India wants to be an independent power bloc in the near future herself.
India is a trading partner on an equal pedestal with Russia , which has a massive concomitant investment in the energy sector , which is practically giving Russian companies like Rosatom and a lot of infra companies a new lease of life , so I am not sure what you mean by 'Expecting Russia to look out for our interests' ....

Case in point, it raised a few eye brows in moscow when india took a very spineless approach of supporting russia on crimea BUT also supporting ukraines integrity. Do you REALLY think that kinda crap sits well with someone like putin?

India's offical stand on Crimea is the same as that of China ,like China India abstained on the Crimea vote and did not impose trade sanctions. Everything else is white noise and posturing.The Russians are grateful to both the nations for that , in fact putin has publicly expressed his gratitude to India and China on this regard.
Having said that, Russia cannot interfere with India's trade interests with a sovereign Ukraine, and they don't .

People like putin admire people with a solid backbone, not a backbone made outta rubber. why would russia give india any importance after such an impotent stance that india took on such a critical issue that was directly related to what russia views as it's own integrity? face it, the ignorant bliss is coming to a end now.

Russia is only concerned with India's official stance . Believe me, Russia needs India more than India does right now , as far as trade is concerned , to embellish and rejuvenate its precariously poised economy.

I am not sure if you know this , but only recently did putin and Modi sign a multi billion dollar deal (total worth 10-20 billion or more ) for the setting up of around 12-15 nuclear reactors in India . These kind of deals are huge for the Russian economy

 

[GumNaam]

Reality is that Russia needs our defence market to survive .
We know how to play games and we are creating our own turf .In that turf noone is allowed including Russia and US .

India was always same in diplomacy.
Read #5 post .you can understand

it's misguided and erroneous mentality like this that "Russia" somehow needs you to survive is what's putting you on their sh!tlist. But yeah, keep at it; it's workin' out for Pakistan in the long run. good luck!

 

[ibnarastoo]

Pakistanis should understand that in international diplomacy , if you are not looking out for your selfish interests, then you are doing something terribly wrong . The entire batch of Indian foreign service babus exist only to pursue Indian self -interest , and is not some kind of philanthropic undertaking for some twisted greater good

We are not like the Indians and their polytheistic or pagan ways. We do everything for the glory of the one God who is all that is good and great and virtuous and fair. Our suffering and our selfless sacrifices during the cold war (for the sake of God and our neighbors the Afghans & for the US/EU/UK and the Capitalist West) will pay off. How can you call our lives dedicated to what is the greatest/ highest good as anything but straightforward & right my lovely brother?

I know we grew up watching that beautiful boy Rashid Minhas push that joystick down with his bloody hands while reciting the Kalima! (every Aug 14) We do everything for the sake of the greatest/highest good! May God have mercy upon us and bless us and strengthen our faith! and give us the best in this world and in the hereafter (this we pray in every prayer)

Sooner or later even the Americans will realize that the nice Indians & nice Chinese people are trying to now insert themselves into Wall Street after years of maligning, harming and abusing our allies (the US & UK & EU). God sees all this and He will vindicate our people and one day we will be as beautiful, as wealthy and smart as the Europeans & we won't have to deal with our nice Indian neighbors.

 

[GumNaam]

India is not concerned about Russian interests except when it pertains to a threat to Indian sovereignty, which Russia respects. This mutual respect by no means amounts to taking sides in a traditional Cold War rivalry , which is anyway in its last phase of extinction. New power blocs are being formed , and India wants to be an independent power bloc in the near future herself.
India is a trading partner on an equal pedestal with Russia , which has a massive concomitant investment in the energy sector , which is practically giving Russian companies like Rosatom and a lot of infra companies a new lease of life , so I am not sure what you mean by 'Expecting Russia to look out for our interests' ....



India's offical stand on Crimea is the same as that of China ,like China India abstained on the Crimea vote and did not impose trade sanctions. Everything else is white noise and posturing.The Russians are grateful to both the nations for that , in fact putin has publicly expressed his gratitude to India and China on this regard.
Having said that, Russia cannot interfere with India's trade interests with a sovereign Ukraine, and they don't .




Russia is only concerned with India's official stance . Believe me, Russia needs India more than India does right now , as far as trade is concerned , to embellish and rejuvenate its precariously poised economy.

I am not sure if you know this , but only recently did putin and Modi sign a multi billion dollar deal (total worth 10-20 billion or more ) for the setting up of around 12-15 nuclear reactors in India . These kind of deals are huge for the Russian economy

read what you just wrote; india is viewed as someone who has no honor. NONE! that's why russia is gonna take you for every penny that you've got. There once was a time not too long ago when they'd heavily subsidize military hardware for you. Well not now. Read between the lines. if your foreign policy is just to use Russia well they'll use the hell outta you too. That is really all that matters.

But if you insist on treating russia as a has been whose only good for its military equipment then no wonder they are ditching you. russia is watching india very carefully, testing india. india's misguided and premature over confident is gonna hurt it in the long run.

Oh and fyi, China never took a two faced policy where they supported russia but also ukraine's unity. China supported russia on crimea hands down without any ifs ands or buts. And that's why China commands a lot more respect from russia that india ever could.

 

[ghameed]

so, for the part in bold (read above), you do realize defense trade with india becomes a major security risk for Russia given how cozy india is getting washington, right? that naturally means that Russia, at best, would only sell you the crappiest and cheapest garbage that would mean nothing to Russia if the u.s. decided to talk to india into letting it take a peak at. if you still can't grasp the risks that are attached to india cozying up to the u.s. then you are clearly too slick for your own good.

Come on man ...like I said , it is a trade , not a dole out . If Russia does not provide top notch stuff, then the deal is as good as a failure . India will look elsewhere for its equipment . As simple as that . God knows where Russia will find an importer with a purse as large and flush with cash as India, now that china is becoming more and more self-sufficient in its defence production.

alas, a fair weathered "friend" (matlabi) is nothing more than a security risk in the long run. be it global geopolitics or real personal life, no one has ever liked, trusted or given any importance to anyone who goes where the "moolah" is. although such people pride themselves in going where the "moolah" is, such people are considered as gold digging pariahs in the long run and are eventually ignored as untrustworthy individuals and nations. That is how it works!

In international diplomacy ,Friends =diplomatic and trade partners , not chums. All powerful nations maintain the same policy . So , the question of fair weather friends does not rise in the first place . No nation must be close enough to another to ensure that any cooling off of the relationship between the two doesn't jeopardise its national interests .

 

[GumNaam]

@ghameed @SrNair

bear in mind, the writer of that article is also a Russian. and we know who pulls the strings of the media in Russia now don't we.

 

[ghameed]

We are not like the Indians and their polytheistic or pagan ways. We do everything for the glory of the one God who is all that is good and great and virtuous and fair. Our suffering and our selfless sacrifices during the cold war (for the sake of God and our neighbors the Afghans & for the US/EU/UK and the Capitalist West) will pay off. How can you call our lives dedicated to what is the greatest/ highest good as anything but straightforward my lovely brother?

I don't know about you but I grew up watching that beautiful boy Rashid Minhas push that joystick down with his bloody hands while reciting the Kalima! (every Aug 14) We do everything for the sake of the greatest/highest good! May God have mercy upon us and bless us and strengthen our faith! and give us the best in this world and in the hereafter (this we pray in every prayer)

Sooner or later even the Americans will realize that the nice Indians & nice Chinese people are trying to now insert themselves into Wall Street after years of maligning, harming and abusing our allies (the US & UK & EU). God sees all this and He will vindicate our people and one day we will be as beautiful, as wealthy and smart as the Europeans & we won't have to deal with our nice Indian neighbors.

Good luck with that ..

 

[GumNaam]

Come on man ...like I said , it is a trade , not a dole out . If Russia does not provide top notch stuff, then the deal is as good as a failure . India will look elsewhere for its equipment . As simple as that . God knows where Russia will find an importer with a purse as large and flush with cash as India, now that china is becoming more and more self-sufficient in its defence production.



In international diplomacy ,Friends =diplomatic and trade partners , not chums. All powerful nations maintain the same policy . So , the question of fair weather friends does not rise in the first place . No nation must be close enough to another to ensure that any cooling off of the relationship between the two doesn't jeopardise its national interests .

well as far as selling military goods is concerned, once Russia starts exporting its oil thru gawadar, the money it would generate from oil exports alone would dwarf any amount of arms sales it could make to india. After the european sanctions on Russia, their exports have taken a hit. And india's purse isn't all that full, China can always replace india in a heart beat and then some.

But yeah, keep this mentality. It's really workin' out for us in the long run.

 

[Peshwa]

That's right, Russia is cozying up to Pakistan by arming India to the teeth!
India is being abandoned in favor of Pakistan by diplomatically supporting India on every forum, be it UNSC or NSG! Not to mention the diplomatic recession in relations that were a result of Russia signing billions worth of energy deals in Oct 2016!

I hope we keep losing more such friends to Pakistan!

 

[GumNaam]

That's right, Russia is cozying up to Pakistan by arming India to the teeth!
India is being abandoned in favor of Pakistan by diplomatically supporting India on every forum, be it UNSC or NSG! Not to mention the diplomatic recession in relations that were a result of Russia signing billions worth of energy deals in Oct 2016!

I hope we keep losing more such friends to Pakistan!

if you consider the cold shoulder russia gave you multiple times including brics as support then WWWWOW, I hope that russia gives you this kinda support every single time! And given that india has to dish out its billions first and then wait anywhere from three to 10 years to get what it purchased or leases is hardly considered as being armed to the teeth by any stretch of the imagination.

your ignorance and over confidence are our two greatest ally!

 

[Peshwa]

Remember in the 1950s we tried to improve relations with the USSR and the Indians rioted and held Muslims hostage and threatened to massacre India based Muslims if we did not cease diplomatic relations with the USSR )

So what you're saying is that our trump card against Pakistan is the Indian Muslims?!

 

[neem456]

so, for the part in bold (read above), you do realize defense trade with india becomes a major security risk for Russia given how cozy india is getting washington, right? that naturally means that Russia, at best, would only sell you the crappiest and cheapest garbage that would mean nothing to Russia if the u.s. decided to talk to india into letting it take a peak at.

True. Like S-400, right ? The garbage as you mentioned.
While the very best they have kept reserved for pakistan. Please share that best, we are dying to see.

 

[GumNaam]

So what you're saying is that our trump card against Pakistan is the Indian Muslims?!

advani once said that indian muslims are basically sleeping cells for Pakistan.

yeah, go for it!

True. Like S-400. right ? The garbage as you mentioned.
While the very best they have kept reserved for pakistan. Please share that best, we are dying to see.

tell me how useful would that be against Chinese or Pakistani missiles and MIRVs traveling at 20 times the speed of sound. you think russia is giving it to protect you? No. They're just taking your cash by giving you something that is utterly ineffective against our missiles!

 

[Peshwa]

if you consider the cold shoulder russia gave you multiple times including brics as support then WWWWOW, I hope that russia gives you this kinda support every single time! And given that india has to dish out its billions first and then wait anywhere from three to 10 years to get what it purchased or leases is hardly considered as being armed to the teeth by any stretch of the imagination.

your ignorance and over confidence are our two greatest ally!

I suppose you think throwing their weight behind India for the UNSC seat or for the NSG waiver and NSG seat is a sign of their abandonment?
Sure buddy whatever you say.

You want to use the heart of Asia example, but don't see that when we went after Azhar in the UN, they weren't the ones to veto! So pray tell, at which diplomatic channel where a "resolution or vote" was to be made did Russia abandon us?
Russia has not hurt us in any diplomatic sphere, at all! And you want us to conclude based on conjecture and not action that they have given up on a 70 year old ally?!

We don't need to learn diplomacy from amateurs. We have been at this a while and know how to make and keep friends.

advani once said that indian muslims are basically sleeping cells for Pakistan.

!

Why are you quoting me?!
These are the words of your comrade who said Pakistan pissed itself and gave up relations with USSR because india threatened to kill Indian Muslims.

Please take it up with him! I'm just the curious audience

 

[GumNaam]

I suppose you think throwing their weight behind India for the UNSC seat or for the NSG waiver and NSG seat is a sign of their abandonment?
Sure buddy whatever you say.

You want to use the heart of Asia example, but don't see that when we went after Azhar in the UN, they weren't the ones to veto! So pray tell, at which diplomatic channel where a "resolution or vote" was to be made did Russia abandon us?
Russia has not hurt us in any diplomatic sphere, at all! And you want us to conclude based on conjecture and not action that they have given up on a 70 year old ally?!

We don't need to learn diplomacy from amateurs. We have been at this a while and know how to make and keep friends.



Why are you quoting me?!
These are the words of your comrade who said Pakistan pissed itself and gave up relations with USSR because india threatened to kill Indian Muslims.

Please take it up with him! I'm just the curious audience

abbay yar where have you been. that's the wink wink nod nod between russia and China. China knows russia needs the money and russia knows that China would veto anything related to india. China took care of russia while russia took care of its pockets. india STILL lost out in the end. Notice, how russia didn't lift a finger to convince China to support the indian stance.

if that doesn't tell you where Russia's policy truly lays then I'm afraid you would buy beach front property in arizona in a heart beat (your visa permitting of course)!

soch samajh kay baat kia karo.