Why pray in Arabic and not in a language we understand?

[VCheng]

because the topic itself is about beliefs itself, from what standpoint and motivation are you coming from?

did i ask something objectionable?

LOL! I do not find your questions objectionable at all! It is just that I do not see the point in answering them as my personal beliefs are exactly that: personal.

Having said that, I respect others' beliefs as much as I do my own.

My approach to this topic is the same as with any other topic: factual, and to the point, as much as I can make it.

 

[r3alist]

LOL! I do not find your questions objectionable at all! It is just that I do not see the point in answering them as my personal beliefs are exactly that: personal.

Having said that, I respect others' beliefs as much as I do my own.

My approach to this topic is the same as with any other topic: factual, and to the point, as much as I can make it.

so see it from my point of view.

you are weighing in on other peoples beliefs in this thread (that you allege to respect them is not all that meaningful) - BUT, you wont allow yourself to be held to any scrutiny yourself - its all personal when it comes YOU.

you wish to remain an enigma, you know what they say about people like you.........

 

[VCheng]

so see it from my point of view.

you are weighing in on other peoples beliefs in this thread (that you allege to respect them is not all that meaningful) - BUT, you wont allow yourself to be held to any scrutiny yourself - its all personal when it comes YOU.

you wish to remain an enigma, you know what they say about people like you.........

Where have I weighed on, or even judged, anyone's beliefs, in this, or any other, thread?

I have always maintained my respect for everybody, as best as I can. Please tell me if I have failed to do that anywhere.

I am no enigma either.

 

[r3alist]

Yes I did.

The use of the Quresh version of the Quran was part of the expansionist philosophy under religious garb, which of course and tried-and-true tactic throughout history.

the above is an example of where you are weighing in on the debate.

what is your standpoint, your terms of reference? are you muslim, agnostic, atheist?



reminding people that you maintain respect is also cute, its like reminding people again and again that you also dont spit on their shoes.

 

[VCheng]

the above is an example of where you are weighing in on the debate.

what is your standpoint, your terms of reference? are you muslim, agnostic, atheist?



reminding people that you maintain respect is also cute, its like reminding people again and again that you also dont spit on their shoes.

Well, this statement is CORRECT:

The use of the Quresh version of the Quran was part of the expansionist philosophy under religious garb, which of course [corrected] is a tried-and-true tactic throughout history.

What is the part that you feel is judging anybody's beliefs, or weighing in on them?

BTW, not that it matters, I am a Muslim, 100%.

 

[Safriz]

These strange arguments are always raised by people who themselves "Never pray"..
Those who pray 5 times have no problem in praying in Arabic ..and actually enjoy that.

 

[r3alist]

BTW, not that it matters, I am a Muslim, 100%

i dont understand why you had to be so slippery about it.

it does matter if you are talking about a subject with someone, you ought to know some basic points about them, it creates an atmosphere of trust and honesty.

i always like honesty you see

 

[v9s]

You are the one who is wrong here, Sir.

For the first two years after Muhammad's (PBUH) death, there were many different versions of the Quran, including different orders of the content, and all were represented as authentic. Hazrat Abubakr RA had these written down. Later, Hazrat Usman selected one of those variations and went on an active campaign to destroy all other versions. Even then, various forms of recitation caused differences in meaning, and thus the final addition of diacritical marks much later during the Umayyad dynasty, as indicated above, produced the form of the Quran that we widely accept today as authentic.

"Divinely inspired" it may be, but the present form of the Quran evolved as indicated above.

I was talking about the order of the quran, i.e. the order of the verses (surah numbers, verse numbers, etc). This is divinely inspired, i.e, prophet muhammad or his companions did not order the verses in an arbitrary fashion, God had communicated the order to him.

As for the script, there are different versions of the the script that exist even today (e.g. Hafs and Warsh versions) and are not the same (i.e. the letters and/or words don't match). Many of them still carry the human errors that were not corrected.

I don't want to go on to a lengthy explanation, so I strongly urge you to read the two articles i've linked below, which will explain my views quite clearly. It will also shed some new info regarding the Quran to you, which may be hard to digest at first if you're a traditionalist (e.g. Prophet Muhammad wasn't illiterate and wrote the Quran with his own hand, etc, etc).

Are all the Arabic versions of Quran the same?

Preserving and protecting Quran

 

[Safriz]

I say again...those who were born in a muslim home..but never themselves practiced islam...have too many question marks in their head which can only be answered if they themselves try doing it..as in they themselves try practicing islam..
no amount of argument can clear their head,as islam is about practicing it not just talking about it...

Its the same as trying to teach someone how to drive a car by talking to them....once they sit behind the wheels..little talk and supervision will make them good drivers..But if somebody only wahts to be a driver by talking about it...thats impossible.

 

[Safriz]

I was talking about the order of the quran, i.e. the order of the verses (surah numbers, verse numbers, etc). This is divinely inspired, i.e, prophet muhammad or his companions did not order the verses in an arbitrary fashion, God had communicated the order to him.

As for the script, there are different versions of the the script that exist even today (e.g. Hafs and Warsh versions) and are not the same (i.e. the letters and/or words don't match). Many of them still carry the human errors that were not corrected.

I don't want to go on to a lengthy explanation, so I strongly urge you to read the two articles i've linked below, which will explain my views quite clearly. It will also shed some new info regarding the Quran to you, which may be hard to digest at first if you're a traditionalist (e.g. Prophet Muhammad wasn't illiterate and wrote the Quran with his own hand, etc, etc).

Are all the Arabic versions of Quran the same?

Preserving and protecting Quran

Dont know what you are on about mate..I have read quran all my life and never came across any discrepancy anywhere....
I have read quran in pakistan,in All over north africa..and many arabian countries..I found all Qurans to be the same..
Try reading Quran with due respect..yourself and you will be ok..

I bet you dont remember the last time you read Quran...be truthful

 

[Ahmad]

I was talking about the order of the quran, i.e. the order of the verses (surah numbers, verse numbers, etc). This is divinely inspired, i.e, prophet muhammad or his companions did not order the verses in an arbitrary fashion, God had communicated the order to him.

As for the script, there are different versions of the the script that exist even today (e.g. Hafs and Warsh versions) and are not the same (i.e. the letters and/or words don't match). Many of them still carry the human errors that were not corrected.

I don't want to go on to a lengthy explanation, so I strongly urge you to read the two articles i've linked below, which will explain my views quite clearly. It will also shed some new info regarding the Quran to you, which may be hard to digest at first if you're a traditionalist (e.g. Prophet Muhammad wasn't illiterate and wrote the Quran with his own hand, etc, etc).

Are all the Arabic versions of Quran the same?

Preserving and protecting Quran

i have heard from qualified people that there is no differece between different copies of the quran, they are all the same.

 

[Safriz]

i have heard from qualified people that there is no differece between different copies of the quran, they are all the same.

Same here mate..never found any discrepancy in any Quran read anywhere abroad...Many here wqill confirm this fact..

These phony internet googling neem mullah khatrae iiman

SOME PHONY WEBSITE SUBMISSION>ORG CANNOT BE CREDIBLE ABOUT OUR ROOT BELEIFS

 

[v9s]

i have heard from qualified people that there is no differece between different copies of the quran, they are all the same.

That is WRONG. There are variations in the writing. If you had read the links you would've seen what i meant.

For example:

The writing of the Quran according to Hafs (Top line)
The writing of the Quran according to Warsh (Bottom Line)

surah 5:54 (yartadda)
surah 5:54 (yartadid)

surah 91:15 (wa la yakhaafu)
surah 91:15 (fa la yakhaafu)

surah 3:133 (wasaari'uu)
surah 3:133 (saari'uu)

surah 2:132 (wawassaa)
surah 2:132 (wa'awsaa)

surah 2:140 (taquluna)
surah 2:140 (yaquluna)

surah 2:259 (nunshizuhaa)
surah 2:259 (nunshiruhaa)

surah 3:81 (ataytukum)
surah 3:81 (ataynakum)

surah 2:132 (himu)
surah 2:132 (hiimu)

surah 2:214 (yaquula)
surah 2:214 (yaquulu)

 

[Jango]

All copies of the Quran are same all over the world, get real people.

I totally agree with sarfriz, that people who pray 5 times a day dont question the reading of prayer in Arabic, but people who pray only on Friday, and do other things, are those who have the most problem.

 

[v9s]

Same here mate..never found any discrepancy in any Quran read anywhere abroad...Many here wqill confirm this fact..

These phony internet googling neem mullah khatrae iiman

You sir, need to stop blindly accepting everything. I have provided the text to you.

Here are some of the correction done in the Tashkent copy of the Quran (The oldest Quran in the World) in comparison with 1924 edition of the Quran in Egypt made after Hafs. Remember these are only some of many examples. In all the next examples, the word ‘original’ means the Tashkent manuscript of the Quran.
Adding Nuns:

The ‘original’ of 20:3 is without nun but the modern version includes it:

The ‘original’ of 36:20 is missing the Yaa and Nun which the modern version has. The ‘original’ of 36:21 is missing a Meem which the modern version has:

In the ‘original’ the letter form for fa or qaf is present in 19:72 whereas the letter nun occurs in the modern versions:

Adding Seen:

The ‘original’ of 20:108 is without seen which is in the modern version.
Changing Seen into Sad:

And many more examples that can make this very long.