Featured Why Pakistan's Imran Khan said no to American drones

[xyx007]

This delusion and grandiose claims are gonna have you making alot of mistakes.

It is not a delusion nor grandiose claim, but facts and figures presented to the world, but Western power is always seen as India's ally. Nevertheless, the winds of change are shifting from west to east and the world is no longer ruled by unilateral power, but by an emerging multilateral power. 'Absolutely not' is an example of multilateral power, In the old world where neo-realists believed that small states to form alliances with big powers had external constraints, more specifically driven by "security concerns rather than by domestic or internal compulsions.
In my opinion, India is making a mistake by aligning itself with non-regional powers. History shows that wherever Pakistan tilts, it becomes a superpower.By now, you should have a good idea of who will be king in the upcoming years. Save your ...

 

[IceCold]

with mutual benefits for respective national interests.

You keep repeating this line but never actually states what mutual interests are? Because no matter how one sees it, there is nothing mutual about it. US wants nothing short of a base inside Pakistan for drone attacks, yes its willing to do some compensations, but on the other side from a Pakistani perspective what can US really offer that will make Pakistan go against the Taliban, go against China and Russia? Nothing! Previously the reason Musharraf government went ahead with the US was because it was a dictatorship and wanted legitimization in the western world. PPP and PMLN, the less we say about them, the better. I mean Obama thought the most difficult call would be to Pakistan after so called OBL raid and yet he found that too be the most easy. Due to our own shortcomings we have surprised americans many times for far less, hence their expectations but you guys are up for a rude awakening this time.

 

[dbc]

My reading of the tea leaves.. post the Biden - Putin summit

- The US is looking to disengage from Afghanistan, the US sees ANA as a lost cause. Pakistan then becomes a convenient excuse for the US when the Taliban eventually run riot in Afghanistan and destabilise Pakistan. The US will simply say we don't have access to help ANA or intervene militarily.

- The exodus of refugees will provoke Pakistani into a military intervention in Afghanistan. Backed by the US, China and Russia. Russia, China and the US have all experienced terrorism originating from Afghan soil under the Taliban and so all three will contribute with intel, weapons and money.

- Pakistan will force the US to extract a commitment of no military misadventure from India

Fasten your seatbelt Pakistan this is going to be a wild ride.

 

[Adecypher]

Pakistan then becomes a convenient excuse for the US when the Taliban eventually run riot in Afghanistan and destabilise Pakistan.

The counter argument is THAT the regional powers including the Countries bordering Afghanistan had witnessed (in last 20 years) how dangerous an unstable Afghanistan is to them, so they will try their level best to "put down" the state and "non-state" actors involved in destabilizing Afghanistan...with them gone in stages and investment from regional powers I am seeing a slightly different picture.... but again you never know only time will tell what is really stored for Afghanistan.

 

[xyx007]

My reading of the tea leaves.. post the Biden - Putin summit

- The US is looking to disengage from Afghanistan, the US sees ANA as a lost cause. Pakistan then becomes a convenient excuse for the US when the Taliban eventually run riot in Afghanistan and destabilise Pakistan. The US will simply say we don't have access to help ANA or intervene militarily.

- The exodus of refugees will provoke Pakistani into a military intervention in Afghanistan. Backed by the US, China and Russia. Russia, China and the US have all experienced terrorism originating from Afghan soil under the Taliban and so all three will contribute with intel, weapons and money.

- Pakistan will force the US to extract a commitment of no military misadventure from India

Fasten your seatbelt Pakistan this is going to be a wild ride.

No matter how many CIA plans are drawn on whiteboards, Pakistan transforms them into losses. In my opinion, it will take some time before what you have to say actually works since the American psyche was not built for war, and they are good at how they use us to pursue their charlie war 1.0 in Afghanistan. It was an American effort to see if India in Afghanistan could replace Pakistan, but they aren't built like us, and India never faced the struggles we have. It is a new experience not just for the United States but for India how to handle charlie war 2.0 in China.

 

[Chris Logan]

My reading of the tea leaves.. post the Biden - Putin summit

- The US is looking to disengage from Afghanistan, the US sees ANA as a lost cause. Pakistan then becomes a convenient excuse for the US when the Taliban eventually run riot in Afghanistan and destabilise Pakistan. The US will simply say we don't have access to help ANA or intervene militarily.

- The exodus of refugees will provoke Pakistani into a military intervention in Afghanistan. Backed by the US, China and Russia. Russia, China and the US have all experienced terrorism originating from Afghan soil under the Taliban and so all three will contribute with intel, weapons and money.

- Pakistan will force the US to extract a commitment of no military misadventure from India

Fasten your seatbelt Pakistan this is going to be a wild ride.

As a person who had boots on the ground, I really hated the Afghan officials. These guys were literal pedophiles. I had to sit across from an official who raped a 9 year old boy. We knew it and we couldn't do shit about it. There were amazing ANA guys, but they are few and far between.
so does the ISI actually control the Taliban or do they do their own thing?

 

[CrazyZ]

Currently USA and Pakistan's interest converge more then ever in Afghanistan. USA is no longer interested in nation building and will only go after AQ OBL types that are planning attacks. My sense is that covert cooperation between ISI and CIA will 100% occur if this threat arises.

Its up to Afghan to settle their internal disputes. Pakistan should be ready for whatever the outcome is.

 

[FuturePAF]

As a person who had boots on the ground, I really hated the Afghan officials. These guys were literal pedophiles. I had to sit across from an official who raped a 9 year old boy. We knew it and we couldn't do shit about it. There were amazing ANA guys, but they are few and far between.
so does the ISI actually control the Taliban or do they do their own thing?

If it were that simple Pakistan wouldn’t be building a fence along the whole border. No one can really control the Afghans. After the 1988 Soviet withdrawal Pakistan tried to get the Afghan factions to sit down and make a government of national reconciliation. Didn’t work.

The current PM of Pakistan (as a private citizen) pushed for dialogue/reconciliation (to bring the Taliban back into the Afghan fold, because he had an understanding of their psychology/cultural dynamics) since 2002 because, as a Pashtun himself, he knows the Afghans don’t take orders from anyone and have to work out their own peace.

But the Tajiks and northern alliance guys didn’t want to reconcile after having just “won” Kabul in 2001. They also had the gravy train coming their way so they had no reason to have the foreigners leave.

Also the Pashtuns don’t want to be dominated by the Tajiks, so coupling that with the 300 year old Afghan civil war between urban and rural Afghans, (which pre-dates Pakistan and even any Western presence in the region) Pakistan it seems just didn’t want to get on the wrong side of Rural Afghans which cross back and forth into Pakistan all the time. Hence the need for the fence.

Pakistan until the operations about ten years ago, had never even sent the army into the tribal areas. Btw, these operations were needed to bring back order after pakistan suffered the blowback of the Drone strikes happening without a thought for how it would affect the civilian population. Even now, they negotiate with the local tribal system to maintain order.

To understand, in an American context the closest show that I’ve seen that capture part of a similar dynamic is Season 2 of the Show Manhunt: Deadly games (came out last year, I think it was on Netflix). I’ll spoil some of it but just a little. The feds and the cops in rural North Carolina wanted to catch the suspect but didn’t want to antagonize the local population, and the local cops also didn’t want to antagonize the local militia, no matter what. It’s something like that. If you watch the series you see the tight rope local police had to walk.

Put it another way. The closest American equivalent. It’s like the Rednecks....Mormon Rednecks. No one can control Rednecks.

 

[Adecypher]

so does the ISI actually control the Taliban or do they do their own thing?

The unabated "Indian Obsession" about ANYTHING Pakistani.... ....continues...

 

[PakFactor]

As a person who had boots on the ground, I really hated the Afghan officials. These guys were literal pedophiles. I had to sit across from an official who raped a 9 year old boy. We knew it and we couldn't do shit about it. There were amazing ANA guys, but they are few and far between.
so does the ISI actually control the Taliban or do they do their own thing?

You don’t have to concern yourself about that, as it doesn’t concern the US or it’s Generals.

I don’t think you were ever a member of the old PDF Forum. What your seeing last 20 years was laid out by various members who are also on this forum, as to how this conflict will be played out and the mistakes you guys would make. Interestingly it went almost exactly as predicted. If the Generals need to be upset at anyone it’s the political ruling class of Washington DC for dragging the US into a useless conflict, with absolutely no strategic value. What made you think us Pakistanis would keep you clowns there, we aren’t like the useless Arabs your used to who can’t think and plan long term.

For the rest I’ll add my input tomorrow evening.

 

[nahtanbob]

What a silly take on history…

Pakistan had already started supporting the resistance way before US was involved

none of our business .? 3M refugees is none of our business?….
Funny you should have lectured india when it intervened in east Pakistan.

The difference is India moved on within a year. They threw out the Pakistani army from East Pakistan
They were not constipated like Pakistan trying to chew on something you cannot digest

Because next on list was pakistan(go read pushtnistan movement and bombing of pakistan) and we had 2 million refugees

And Yes it is always about money..lets see how u live a day without money

What are you? An idiot??

Now get ready for economic pressure
People think countries get develop in a day while rampant corruption and ineffiency is rewarded

Like it took a few years for china japan korea to develop!!

The Soviets are not in a position to conquer Pakistan. They conquer countries like Hungary and Czechoslovakia. Pakistan had little in the way of communist quislings. You could have closed your border with Afghanistan and moved on. You had a choice. you took the money and got involved in something

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Pakistan should conduct a grand drone strike on Daesh and TTP elements to make a statement to America

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

so does the ISI actually control the Taliban or do they do their own thing

Yeah ISI is a magical force of mysterious superheroes. Kinda like the avengers. They managed to defeat America with all of its galactic forces and weapons such as satellites, AI, ISR and other super duper inter galactic technology.

Are you done playing galactic police enforcer of the world yet?

Hahaha stupid whities. You guys gobbled down whatever garbage intel and rhetoric Northern Alliance parsibaans threw at you lmao .

 

[Tomcats]

However, as a Pakistani listen to our PM's response during an interview with HBO and feel proud today because the prior gov. could not make such an answer,

and I will tell you one more thing - Pakistan's foreign policy has reincarnated from defensive to offensive. enough is enough.

FO Spokesperson condemns Afghan NSA’s baseless insinuations against Pakistan

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan Friday snubbed Afghanistan over baseless allegations by National Security Adviser Hamdullah Mohib regarding Pakistan’s role on Afghan peace. Foreign Office spokesperson Zahid Hafeez Chaudhry said Pakistan

nation.com.pk

Pakistan Zindabad.

It seems a lot of people here think this is a decision Imran can take, besides the fact that he is in all actuality as much of a spineless guy as the predecessor governments, it's honestly sad how he has degraded from what he once was looking at the SMQ interview and this. The decision for a US base in Pakistan will always be in the hands of the Army seeing how things are right now, it ain't in IK's hands just as it wasnt for the other governments.

so does the ISI actually control the Taliban or do they do their own thing?

They do their 'own thing' though weird choice of organization.

 

[PradoTLC]

Fasten your seatbelt Pakistan this is going to be a wild ride.

and you think our National Defence Command doesn't know this?...

The difference is India moved on within a year. They threw out the Pakistani army from East Pakistan

a year?..

man you really don't know your history.

India was tormenting trouble and terrorism since the 1960s...

again I see you not condemning India for not minding it's own business?... are you a hypocrite?

hey were not constipated like Pakistan trying to chew on something you cannot digest

like ANA?...

how has that working for you after 20 years?.. only to see them lose to the Afghan Taliban.