Why Pakistan Needs Language Laws

[uhuru]

Agree. I still say there is a chance to go back because our education system and identity is so raw and flawed. I suppose Dari is the best option. That was the Farsi dialect spoken in the Af-Pak region and it certainly influenced our local languages like Punjabi, Pashto, Sindi, Balochi, and Kashmiri.

See the difference. At the stage of our independence, we had over 90+ languages, tribal divisions etc. We could have gone the uganda way or Kenya way. Instead, Mwalimu Julius who was himself a teacher by profession instilled completely a sense of national unity - how? Language. Only and only Swahili was to the Official 1st Language. English was relegated to 2nd status. From primary to secondary to university level. Did we lose anything - NO - instead, we saw Kiswahili now as a primary language irrespective of your tribe, race. Any foreigner who comes and settles here or does business has zero choice, learn it or get out.

Look at our leaders, they have zero zero esteem issues and speak swahili with pride; i put some videos - you can see do you find any english word being used in speeches? None. Instead, when your Pak leaders or even Indians open their mouths they go towards 70% english/ and rest what ever....

Only way to address a national identity was either to adopt Urdu as a defacto lingua franca or choose a language which was truely a representative.

For example, in our institutions, - let us go to the military baracks - noone speaks english from the top to the lowest ranks. Why must we? We got independence from the colonials only to be shackled in their ways of doing things? no thank you. We see the disasters in West Africa in the Francophones or even Nigeria.

 

[Neelo]

Yea go ahead and give this lecture to a common Pakistani. Tell them how illiterate they are and get a free slimy spit on your face…

I'm not telling this to the common person. I'm advocating for legislation.

You seem to have hard time understanding how detrimental this is to our country and society.

 

[Strigon]

I'm not telling this to the common person. I'm advocating for legislation.

You seem to have hard time understanding how detrimental this is to our country and society.

No one is against education. If it were that easy as you make it seem, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

My point that you are twisting into your sob story is about priorities.

Pakistan is steps away from crashing economically and the most you are worried about is an ideal situation which takes generations. Even the most developed countries can’t declare themselves fully literate and then there’s Pakistan.

 

[Tamerlane]

Urdu has no history and culture. Its basically Hindi.

That’s an incredibly misinformed statement to make. Urdu has a history going back to the early days of Muslim rule in Delhi. Amir Khusrau lived 750+ years ago and wrote poetry in what would develop into Urdu.

The official language was Persian but Urdu developed in parallel. By the end of Mughal rule the emperors, like Bahadur Shah Zafar, were speaking and writing in Urdu. The most common language spoken in Hindustan, which included present day Pakistan, was Urdu. There was no language called Hindi.

When the British managed to turn Hindus against Muslims the Hindus created a new language called Hindi. They removed Persian and Arabic and added Sanskrit, and changed the script to Indian. Hindi is a breakaway from Urdu, not the other way around.

At the time of partition the most common language used by Muslims was Urdu, spoken by Muslims all over, which is why Quaid e Azam selected it although it wasn’t his native language.

Today Urdu is quite separated from Hindi. Even though we can make small talk with Indians, they can’t read our script and they can barely understand formal Urdu, just like we can’t fully understand formal Hindi.

 

[ThunderCat]

Abu Dhabi police car. Compare it to the Latin script we use for our police cars. Joke of the century:

 

[Tamerlane]

See the difference. At the stage of our independence, we had over 90+ languages, tribal divisions etc.

It so happens that Pakistan also has 90+ languages. There’s little choice but to select one for common usage. Whichever one you choose there will be some people who will complain.

 

[Edevelop]

There’s little choice but to select one for common usage. Whichever one you choose there will be some people who will complain.

I prefer Dari but still not necessary to select one. Switzerland's official languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh and Belgium's official languages are French, German, and Dutch. It's okay for people to be multilingual.

That’s an incredibly misinformed statement to make. Urdu has a history going back to the early days of Muslim rule in Delhi. Amir Khusrau lived 750+ years ago and wrote poetry in what would develop into Urdu.

The official language was Persian but Urdu developed in parallel. By the end of Mughal rule the emperors, like Bahadur Shah Zafar, were speaking and writing in Urdu. The most common language spoken in Hindustan, which included present day Pakistan, was Urdu. There was no language called Hindi.

When the British managed to turn Hindus against Muslims the Hindus created a new language called Hindi. They removed Persian and Arabic and added Sanskrit, and changed the script to Indian. Hindi is a breakaway from Urdu, not the other way around.

At the time of partition the most common language used by Muslims was Urdu, spoken by Muslims all over, which is why Quaid e Azam selected it although it wasn’t his native language.

Today Urdu is quite separated from Hindi. Even though we can make small talk with Indians, they can’t read our script and they can barely understand formal Urdu, just like we can’t fully understand formal Hindi.

Pakistan meaning Punjab, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Sindhis, and Balochis are a cradle of many civilizations and the Mughal empire was not the only piece of history that happened. Fundamentally, the land of Hindustan and Pakistan have nothing in common. Neither in genetics, culture nor in landscape.

If one were to break it down in history of thousands of years, only few hundred years saw both Hindustan and modern day territories of Pakistan being ruled together and it was none other than by Mughals and the British, both of whom are events of history nothing to be proud of. The Mughals were barbaric Central Asian Turks who had no single identity. All they did was mass killings and looted wealth. If they had any interest in Islam and culture, they could have converted Hindustan. In our part of territory we knew who we were. We were already muslims due to Sufis from Persia and our culture was enriched by successive Persian empires

Our people in the west did not speak Urdu. Like I said due to Persian influence particularly by the Ghaznavids who btw were natives of this land spoke Dari. The British replaced Dari (a dialect of Persian spoken in the regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan) with Urdu. This happened because modern day territories of Pakistan came under British colonialism. Facing defeat in the Afghan land gave them this idea that perhaps imposing a single language in both colonial territories of Hindustan and modern day lands of Pakistan would serve their purpose and this is not surprising considering the fact that the British have a history of divide and rule and distorting history every where they ruled in the world.

Jinnah was no saint. He was a human being who also made blunders just like Ataturk did by replacing Arabic Turkish with Latin Turkish and later replacing Ottoman culture with European. As for Jinnah's Urdu, he could hardly speak. It was broken. His mother tongue was English and Gujarati. Even Alama Iqbal who is widely acknowledged as one of the pioneer poets and philosophers of Asia wrote most of his work in Persian. If he lived long enough I'm damn sure Jinnah and Liquat Ali Khan would have been opposed. In fact language rights was one of the big reasons why even Bangladesh separated. They disliked Urdu.

 

[Tamerlane]

I prefer Dari but still not necessary to select one. Switzerland's official languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh and Belgium's official languages are French, German, and Dutch. It's okay for people to be multilingual.

Pakistan meaning Punjab, Pashtuns, Kashmiris, Sindhis, and Balochis are a cradle of many civilizations and the Mughal empire was not the only piece of history that happened. Fundamentally, the land of Hindustan and Pakistan have nothing in common. Neither in genetics, culture nor in landscape.

If one were to break it down in history of thousands of years, only few hundred years saw both Hindustan and modern day territories of Pakistan being ruled together and it was none other than by Mughals and the British, both of whom are events of history nothing to be proud of. The Mughals were barbaric Central Asian Turks who had no single identity. All they did was mass killings and looted wealth. If they had any interest in Islam and culture, they could have converted Hindustan. In our part of territory we knew who we were. We were already muslims due to Sufis from Persia and our culture was enriched by successive Persian empires

Our people in the west did not speak Urdu. Like I said due to Persian influence particularly by the Ghaznavids who btw were natives of this land spoke Dari. The British replaced Dari (a dialect of Persian spoken in the regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan) with Urdu. This happened because modern day territories of Pakistan came under British colonialism. Facing defeat in the Afghan land gave them this idea that perhaps imposing a single language in both colonial territories of Hindustan and modern day lands of Pakistan would serve their purpose and this is not surprising considering the fact that the British have a history of divide and rule and distorting history every where they ruled in the world.

Jinnah was no saint. He was a human being who also made blunders just like Ataturk did by replacing Arabic Turkish with Latin Turkish and later replacing Ottoman culture with European. As for Jinnah's Urdu, he could hardly speak. It was broken. His mother tongue was English and Gujarati. Even Alama Iqbal who is widely acknowledged as one of the pioneer poets and philosophers of Asia wrote most of his work in Persian. If he lived long enough I'm damn sure Jinnah and Liquat Ali Khan would have been opposed. In fact language rights was one of the big reasons why even Bangladesh separated. They disliked Urdu.

If the British never came then chances are that Persian/Dari would have been the official language. Pakistan would never have been created and Muslims would have been very powerful in a united India. Everyone who speaks English now, meaning educated people, would have spoken Persian.

However, we have to deal with reality, and the reality is that at the time of independence no one spoke Persian. My grandmother did, but she was an exception. I myself love Persian and have tried my best to learn it.

The reality also is that the most common language that was widely understood by Muslims all over India was Urdu. Quaid e Azam made speeches in Urdu if he wanted to be understood.

Regarding ancient history and Indus Valley Civilization, that ceased to exist over 3,500 years ago. The people of that civilization are thought to be dark skinned Dravidians, like the people of South India.

The inhabitants of the Indus Valley are believed to have been dark-skinned, or Dravidian, most likely ancestors of the darker-skinned peoples of South India. A few of the most well-known Indus cities include Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa.

A Glimpse at the Human Figurines of the Indus Valley Civilization

Racially they had nothing to do with the present day people of Pakistan who came here during the Aryan invasions and destroyed the IVC. Once they entered this part of the world there is no physical barrier between Pakistan and India all the way to Bengal. Asoka's empire had boundaries similar to Mughal India. So, it’s wrong to say that Pakistan always stood separate from India.

It’s great to know history, but one based on facts and reality, and without creating an alternate history like the Indians are doing. In their version there were no Muslims in India. Some in Pakistan want to create the fantasy that Pakistan always existed independently apart from the evil Muzlems. How is that different from what the Indians are doing?

 

[uhuru]

It so happens that Pakistan also has 90+ languages. There’s little choice but to select one for common usage. Whichever one you choose there will be some people who will complain.

It does not matter; it is in nature of humans to always complain. THey will may be for one generation.

Here in our entire region - even foreigners have no choice - they find it as a way to bridge across 8 countries and like English for the rest of the world; swahili is the common language for all of us irrespective of our tribal/ethnic or national boundaries.

Born in Zanzibar and adopted across - Tanzania, northern Mozambique, southern Sudan, Uganda, Kenya, COromos, Burundi, Rwanda, eastern Zaire, Oman - over 200 million speaker - around same population of Pakistan.

 

[Neelo]

Umm the Indus Valley people weren't Dravidians. It's so amazing watching Pakistanis cry about how we don't "brand Pakistan" and why India does this and that all while you deliberately throw your history and culture away.

Harappan people weren't Dravidians. That was debunked almost 5 years ago!

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

This is how transliteration and "Roman Urdu" have destroyed this language.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/rv88zi

It's such a shame that many in Pakistan can't speak or write proper English, proper Urdu or their mother tongues. What results is a mix of all three into what I call "کھچڑی زبان".

When languages are not properly protected and taught, the result is this.

Behold the Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority's "translation" of Islamabad International Airport!

View attachment 927932

The terms for international and airport ready exist in Urdu.

• International = بین اقوامی (Bainul Aqwami)
• Airport =ہوائی اڈے (Hawai Adda)

What’s the point of transliterating it? At this point why not abandon all these languages and just make English the official language? Why make a mockery? In comparison, here’s how our neighbouring languages behave.

Persian = فرودگاه بین‌المللی
Arabic = مطار الدولي
Turkish = Uluslararası Havalimanı
Chinese = 国际机场
Hindi = does the same stupidity as Urdu

Yes, this is actually a real photo. The CAA actually approved this translation. It makes me wonder what the average IQ is of the people running this government department.

Oh wait…nevermind.
View attachment 927933

And this nonsense is not an isolated incident. In 2018, the Citizens Archive of Pakistan inaugurated the "National History Museum" as the "نیشنل ہستورے میوزیم".

These words already exist in Urdu!

• Museum =عجائب گھر (Ajaib Ghar)
• National = قومی (Quami)
• History = تاریخ (Tareekh)

Here’s the “Election Commission”…

View attachment 927934




And this is not just about Urdu...all our languages in Pakistan are under threat due to ignorance like this. The lack of ownership of our languages and lack of language laws results in this type of circus, where bastardisation is allowed to run rampant.

Even our urban neighbourhoods haven't been spared. Traditionally they have always been named to reflect our culture or history - places like Gulberg, Gulshan-e-Iqbal, Nazimabad, Anarkali, Lyari, Faizabad etc. All these places have culture, history and soul about them.

Nowadays however, places like "Paragon City", "Eden Avenue", "Ideal Garden Housing Scheme", "DHA City", "Bahria Town", "Arian City", "Top City" seem to be the norm. Does this not seem problematic? "Bahria Town" is not actually a town, it's a private company named "Bahria Town Private Limited". Why are company names replacing the names of villages and localities which have stood for over 500 years? These names have no soul to them whatsoever. Despite the fact Urdu words already exist, the Anglo terms were adopted. For example, the word for TOWN in Urdu would be:

• Abad (آباد)
• Abadi (آبادی)
• Pur (پور)
• Pura (پورہ)
• Mahalla (محله)

What are we telling the world when we disrespect our own languages? It tells the world we are a dead nation. When university is pronounced as "you nee vastee", you are essentially defining yourselves as an ignorant nation.

University = جامعہ not یونیورسٹی

View attachment 927935

Urdu and English should be made official languages.
Other foreign languages that should be taught in institutions:
1)Arabic
2)Farsi
3)Mandarin
4)French

 

[ThunderCat]

Urdu and English should be made official languages.
Other foreign languages that should be taught in institutions:
1)Arabic
2)Farsi
3)Mandarin
4)French

This definately is the banned troll MultaniGuy. @Chute you're right on this one. An IP range check should be done by mods/admins.

If the British never came then chances are that Persian/Dari would have been the official language. Pakistan would never have been created and Muslims would have been very powerful in a united India. Everyone who speaks English now, meaning educated people, would have spoken Persian.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

This definately is the banned troll MultaniGuy. @Chute you're right on this one. An IP range check should be done by mods/admins.



View attachment 929716

You are probably an Indiot Indian pretending to be with no flags on your profile. Why don't you show your true flags?

You have been here since 2009, but only 2,000 sounds a little suspicious.


@waz take care of this Indiot @ThunderCat

 

[Chute]

This definately is the banned troll MultaniGuy. @Chute you're right on this one.

heh, watch out he called you his favourite insult..... indiot

Search results for query: indiot

tags waz while he does it too

Forum toddlers I call them. Somewhere on the autism spectrum if they are adults IRL.

They are highly amusing to watch with the limited oddly specific vocab and habits.

All in all harmless types (unlike some of the true foul trolls here).... hope waz leaves him alone heh.

They just want you to put their scribbled crayon pictures on the fridge and a pat on the head.

That's all it is.

Once you have observed and understood the psyche types in this forum long enough (or any place in general), you will prioritize your time better as well according to your tastes.

 

[ThunderCat]

All in all harmless types (unlike some of the true foul trolls here).... hope waz leaves him alone heh.
ze your time better as well according to your tastes.

Hope waz or any wise admin or mod bans him. He's a waste of time and energy. This forum is better off without people like him.

Otherwise everyone should put him on their ignore list which is what I might do if he's not banned.