Why Pak Army remained silent when our children were being killed ?

[Icarus]

Drone strikes occurred in areas where the Pakistani government had lost its writ and sovereignty and thus lacked the capacity to eliminate targets there that were deemed a threat to US national interests. We also did not have the moral grounds or justification to challenge the US solely because of the fact that we could offer them no alternative and neither could we contest that we would apprehend the suspects on their behalf, again due to the fact that we had lost control over these areas to the militants. You will have noticed that whenever we secured a territory from the TTP, the drone strikes also effectively ended due to the fact that priority targets shifted out of the areas and those that remained could be apprehended by our own troops.

So to make it simple, we could not stop drone strikes because they were taking place, effectively, in an area that was not under the sovereign authority of the government of Pakistan. We had neither the military presence nor the legal rationale necessary to do so.

 

[Spring Onion]

Everybody who visits this forum frequently might know that I'm not an anti army element and I certainly don't like to bash Pak army needlessly so this is a serious question.
From 2003 till 2013,the Americans carried out free drone strikes in Pakistan.We all know that the majority of the people killed were innocent civilians.I won't go intp official or unofficial count of the deceased.
Why was this being allowed to happen? We must not fool ourselves by thinking that all was happening at the consent of the civilian govt and the Army was helpless.Everybody knows the might of Pak Army inside Pakistan.I can't bring myself to think that Americans were doing this without our consent.They don't have the fortitude to poke and finger us like that.They could never risk an escalation with Pakistan while they were trapped in Afg.
We can't give this idea of collateral damage to ourselves.There is should be no such thing as collateral damage.
The blood of a Muslim is more scared in the sight of Allah than the Kaa'ba.
We know that many officers were deeply frustated at the drone strikes.Why would they be frustated if the strikes were only picking out militants ?
What was the wisdom in the Army's hierarchy being silent ? What kind of wisdom permits letting your people being bombed ?
So,kis kay hath pay apnon ka lahoo talash kia jay ?
We don't come to this forum for singing praises to our Army and country only,we discuss things here.I will be disappointed if the mods block this thread as I don't see myself violating any rules and I know that this is not Bharat Rakshak.

Because we had agreement with US allowing these drone attacks so no question of consent

 

[Djinn]

@Alpha BeeTee
I remember that many years back, there was this one particular attack, in which a lot of children died. I just googled one not sure if it is the same incident. Children are children whether they are of enemy, they deserve protection. People these days try to justify any atrocity under the pretext that its for "national interests", however Allah wont care about these excuses-----That's one of the privileges of having faith in the Almighty and his principles.

A CIA strike on a madrassa in 2006 killed up to 69 children.The attack was on a religious seminary in Chenegai, in Bajaur Agency.
Not that candles and songs matter, but i don't recall "tributes" pouring in for these children.
The day 69 children died - The Express Tribune

 

[sady]

Question is why were those Chechens, Arabs, and Africans allowed to stay there with the knowledge of the Pakistani government, Army, and ISI from 1989-2001??

Why were they allowed to come into Pakistan through Pakistani Airports in the first place?? I'm sure they didn't come through Iran, China, India, or former Soviet Union.

The same Russia is warming up with you which wanted Baluchistan as another annexation many decades ago. I would call this policy a success. My dear Pakistan was from its inception like Israel never meant to be a 'normal' country! Both countries though a product of colonial manipulation were still an aberration in previous scheme of divising borders and defining 'nationalism'. Israel has realised it and knows what it has to do, we are still clutching straws and chasing shadows. Have we imagined what if there was no resistance to Russia in search of warm waters? Have we understood why these warm waters were not offered to Russia in first place by politicians? as we are so frantically doing today for China? The problem with us Pakistanis is that we start singing jingles about something we heard and make it the universal truth and integral part of history. For many Bhutto is a martyr who dared to defy US. Period and many will sing this song till they die.

 

[Saifullah]

Well if you are going to host all the arabs, chechens, uzbeks and africans and refuse to cooperate with the government and refuse to accept the law then don't expect government to save you when enemies of those arabs, chechens, uzbeks and africans come to bomb you.

Simple logic.

Who is the one who convinced us to host them even praised us and Who was in the power while it was being done ?

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

No justification. Simple logic. Karachi never got bombed by drones. Quetta, Lahore, Islamabad and Peshawar never got bombed. Every asked yourself question why???

When you declare war against the state calling them American agents when it called you to stop hosting arabs, chechens, uzbeks then don't expect state to save your as$ when drones bomb you to kill those arabs, uzbek and chechens.



Many came through Afghanistan. Some might have come through airports too. The thing is when you want to remain free, don't want law of the land applied to you then you should be ready for drones. It isn't about terrorism only. We all know what used to happen in "ilaqa e ghair" even before 9/11.

Please stop this irrational excuse.
You are telling me that everyone who was killed was guilty of hosting and protecting militants !
Don't you know tribal societies ? Women and children have no say in their matters.
You are telling me that the killing of kids and females was justified because their family men might have hosted militants.

 

[Saifullah]

Are you naive enough to believe artillery shelling and F16 strikes by Pak Army in Zarb e Azab doesn't kill families of militants or those who stayed put? There are no right or wrong decisions only difficult ones. You had two options either stop US from doing the drone strikes and dirty your own hands plus also take wrath of US forces or let them do it themselves.

Reality check for people Pakistan is hardly a super power and those who are inspired by divine help in this regard look around divine help does not come amidst 'thumkas' of Katrina kaif, listening like dumbfucks the verbal diarrhoea of pathtetic politicians or in a place where apathy injustice and cruelity becomes a norm. The little freedom that we have in shape of Pakistan the vast majority of people do not even deserve it. I have no qualms in saying a common Pakistani deserves the collective hardship,death and destruction that has plagued him for decades now. If it wasn't for noble few either in forces or Civ population and sacrifices of many this country would have been doomed to horrific end as many others around our part of worl today.

One Thank doesn't do justice for this post. It deserve more and i would have thanked hundred times if i could. Exactly on the point reply.

 

[MastanKhan]

Everybody who visits this forum frequently might know that I'm not an anti army element and I certainly don't like to bash Pak army needlessly so this is a serious question.
From 2003 till 2013,the Americans carried out free drone strikes in Pakistan.We all know that the majority of the people killed were innocent civilians.I won't go intp official or unofficial count of the deceased.
Why was this being allowed to happen? We must not fool ourselves by thinking that all was happening at the consent of the civilian govt and the Army was helpless.Everybody knows the might of Pak Army inside Pakistan.I can't bring myself to think that Americans were doing this without our consent.They don't have the fortitude to poke and finger us like that.They could never risk an escalation with Pakistan while they were trapped in Afg.
We can't give this idea of collateral damage to ourselves.There is should be no such thing as collateral damage.
The blood of a Muslim is more scared in the sight of Allah than the Kaa'ba.
We know that many officers were deeply frustated at the drone strikes.Why would they be frustated if the strikes were only picking out militants ?
What was the wisdom in the Army's hierarchy being silent ? What kind of wisdom permits letting your people being bombed ?
So,kis kay hath pay apnon ka lahoo talash kia jay ?
We don't come to this forum for singing praises to our Army and country only,we discuss things here.I will be disappointed if the mods block this thread as I don't see myself violating any rules and I know that this is not Bharat Rakshak.

Sir,

The blood is on your hands---you should not have given refuge to any terrorists and anyone related to their cause---.

When you hide criminals amongst your homes and families---others die as well.

Please stop this irrational excuse.
You are telling me that everyone who was killed was guilty of hosting and protecting militants !
Don't you know tribal societies ? Women and children have no say in their matters.
You are telling me that the killing of kids and females was justified because their family men might have hosted militants.

Sir,

Stop being silly---come to the real world----. You seem to say that the BOMB SHRAPNELS should be able to differentiate between the Terrs and non terrs----.

That only happens in fools paradise----.

Question is why were those Chechens, Arabs, and Africans allowed to stay there with the knowledge of the Pakistani government, Army, and ISI from 1989-2001??

Why were they allowed to come into Pakistan through Pakistani Airports in the first place?? I'm sure they didn't come through Iran, China, India, or former Soviet Union.

Sir,

The state can change its mind any time it wants to---. Just because it gave you a home away from home when you had nowhere to go---and then you brought the war to your guest's home---.

The state can and will take actions even against its citizens---foreigners can lose the favor with the needs of the time.

Who is the one who convinced us to host them even praised us and Who was in the power while it was being done ?

Sir,

It does not make any difference who asked us to do what or what we did then---.

The state has its own interests---those who are given refuge need to live by the rules----or die.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Drone strikes occurred in areas where the Pakistani government had lost its writ and sovereignty and thus lacked the capacity to eliminate targets there that were deemed a threat to US national interests. We also did not have the moral grounds or justification to challenge the US solely because of the fact that we could offer them no alternative and neither could we contest that we would apprehend the suspects on their behalf, again due to the fact that we had lost control over these areas to the militants. You will have noticed that whenever we secured a territory from the TTP, the drone strikes also effectively ended due to the fact that priority targets shifted out of the areas and those that remained could be apprehended by our own troops.

So to make it simple, we could not stop drone strikes because they were taking place, effectively, in an area that was not under the sovereign authority of the government of Pakistan. We had neither the military presence nor the legal rationale necessary to do so.

Why couldn't we offer an alternative to the US like a ground operation while we knew that our absence in the area is giving them a free liscence to kill ? We knew that if they'll find one suspected target,they won't care if a dozen innocents get killed in the strike.
When innocent kids got killed within our territory (APS Pesh),we wouldn't stop mourning.When innocent kids got killed within our territory in which we had lost control (Bajaur drone strike),we wouldn't give two hoots about it.
The blood of the kids of Bajaur was as sacred as that of the APS kids.
Sir,I'm afraid our justifications are weightless.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Sir,

The blood is on your hands---you should not have given refuge to any terrorists and anyone related to their cause---.

When you hide criminals amongst your homes and families---others die as well.



Sir,

Stop being silly---come to the real world----. You seem to say that the BOMB SHRAPNELS should be able to differentiate between the Terrs and non terrs----.

That only happens in fools paradise----.



Sir,

The state can change its mind any time it wants to---. Just because it gave you a home away from home when you had nowhere to go---and then you brought the war to your guest's home---.

The state can and will take actions even against its citizens---foreigners can lose the favor with the needs of the time.



Sir,

It does not make any difference who asked us to do what or what we did then---.

The state has its own interests---those who are given refuge need to live by the rules----or die.

You are only justifying what they call collateral damage which means that if I get my target in a shot,I don't care if I kill a dozen others in the process.This approach of the western forces has cost us the lives of millions of innocent Muslims in Iraq,Afg and Syria.
You might get away with shedding unjust blood by giving it fancy names like 'collateral damage' but at last you meet God and that's where you realize the cost of what you did.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

You have to realize that immediately after the false flag of 911 there were 3 American aircraft carriers just outside the Arabian sea with air firepower at that time out matching ours almost 10 folds and they threatened to wipe us out into the stone age, it was not in our interest to go war with the Afghan Taliban's for America's sake, they are an ethnic group and an integral part of Afghanistan and that is why almost a 40 coalition of nations could not eliminate them, it would be like waging war and eliminating the African Americans from the United states, it became our interest to do so because an alternative would have been a US/Indian coalition invasion.

The possibility of such an invasion was very real for almost a decade, our survival was literally at stake today's Iraq, Libya or Syria could very well have been Pakistan, considering the circumstances we did remarkably well to come out from the war on terror in one piece.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Answer is simple. america is the most powerful military nation on earth whilst we are weak. That's why Pakistan's main concern should be in becoming a high tech military superpower like israel so no foreigners can mess with us. You may also ask why did america invaded Iraq and Afghanistan but not Pakistan even though we were also on the neo con death list of nations? It's because Pakistan is a nuclear weapons state. It's because we are a pro-Muslim nation of 200 million people who are anti-American imperialism with many battle hardened militants armed with high tech conventional weapons. If the americans thought Iraq was bad than Pakistan would literally be 10 times worst. Although the americans would destroy Pakistan, an invading american army would face massive and catasrophic losses that they would deem unacceptable for anything gained.

 

[Pakistani E]

Why couldn't we offer an alternative to the US like a ground operation while we knew that our absence in the area is giving them a free liscence to kill ? We knew that if they'll find one suspected target,they won't care if a dozen innocents get killed in the strike.
When innocent kids got killed within our territory (APS Pesh),we wouldn't stop mourning.When innocent kids got killed within our territory in which we had lost control (Bajaur drone strike),we wouldn't give two hoots about it.
The blood of the kids of Bajaur was as sacred as that of the APS kids.
Sir,I'm afraid our justifications are weightless.

but when we launch ground operations terrororist sympathisers come crawling out to tell us how innocent these tribals are. It took us years to even have unanimity for ground operations. How could we have offered an alternative when a lot of our mullahs and politicians were defedning them openly?

 

[MastanKhan]

You are only justifying what they call collateral damage which means that if I get my target in a shot,I don't care if I kill a dozen others in the process.This approach of the western forces has cost us the lives of millions of innocent Muslims in Iraq,Afg and Syria.
You might get away with shedding unjust blood by giving it fancy names like 'collateral damage' but at last you meet God and that's where you realize the cost of what you did.

Hi,

And that shows that the likes of you have a LEARNING DISABILITY----.

Who does not know about the destructioon of vietnam---I guess none of the pakistanis---because they wanted to make a vietnam of america---.

The nice thing is that this is the nicer and kinder usa----instead of carpet bombing the area with B52's---now it uses smart weapons that take out the area targetted---and as weapons do---some go astray---.

Next time---do things different---don't let the U S come to your areas with guns drawn.

 

[Mrc]

I guess TTP is bastian of human rights..... exploding in a bazzar full of women, in a que for nadra id card and blowing up schools, empty or other wise is true definition of not killing civilians??

And pissing in pants and running away to a neighbouring hell hole is true definition of bravery...