why not Come under US-Nuclear Umbrella ?

[SQ8]

How can it be?
I said it is 'only slightly inferior' and surely they can manage to close that gap for now.But once we inducted for 126 fighters I dont think so.

Actually, India is slightly inferior.. As I said, this is long drawn out debate but a closer look beyond what you consider are gauges for Air power will help. Its not about the number of aircraft.. its about how well they are ALL equipped. By the time India gets those 126 fighters.. the Turks will having an equivalent number of 5th Generation low observable assets in their inventory.
You cant be better than everybody, the day Desis learn that is the day they move beyond their own demons.

 

[Darth Vader]

Ok guys , i was wondering that , our Nuclear program is India specific , our missiles cant reach any other possible hostile from the west just in case ... but this Nuclear Pakistan seems a iminant threat to world peace .. and just because of that we were put into this WOT , ( at least some peoples believe in it ) ....
so why not we surrender our Nuclear weapons to UN ? ? US from 2001 try to reach our Nukes , or at least trying to locate them , and its a open secret to all ... we have no access to modern technology , no news military hardware , nothing .... we cant test ICBMs etc ,just because we will face a huge retaliation from the west and possible sanctions ....
our one and only possible enemy is India , at least this what we are told . Americans are friendly to us along with NATO ... than why not just give our Nukes to UN , on conditions which we can put in front of west like , economic reforms and corridor, increase in trade , more access to conventional weapons , for example turkey , Japan and Germany ... except turkey germany and Japan is under US Nuclear Umbrella and they have one of the most advance conventional military's in the world .... why cant we do the same ? we all know US presence in Pak .. whatever high tech and sophisticated weapons USA give us were before we got out nuke tests , why cant we compromise our nukes for a high tech powerful conventional army ?

there might be some possible cases which peoples might be thinking here ...
like .. :
1. what if india attack us ?
2. what if US attack us ?
3. we are the only Islamic nation who posses nukes ..is it a honor or burden ?

1. War with india is something we can experience anytime , and that is reality ...but will india use Nukes on us ? we all know that border skirmishes are happening since kargil and even before , but do we really think that any future conflict will trigger a nuclear war ? and what if we get US nuclear Umbrella like Japan and Germany ? made a pact with them to protect us in future conflicts , only in case of Nukes get involved in war ...
in return we can have more weapons and technology from the west .. i talk about Economic corridor and more trade that will help us build our economy strong .. we can take japan Germany and turkey as example , they have strong conventional army but the only weapon they dont have is Nukes, but did this make their countries valuable to their enemies ? and have US nukes on our soil will make sure that Russians or Indian will not dare to use Nukes ....and by having more conventional weapons we can fight better of with indians ....

2.we all know that many of people in Pakistan believe USA as their enemy and think that sooner or later they will attack us , even if they do , what we can do to prevent them attacking us ??
Answer is NOTHING ...

3 . So many peoples proudly say that we are the only Islamic nation that holds the nuclear weapons , but what benefit we ever give to any of our brotherly Islamic nation ?? none ...this Islamic Ummah and Islamic bomb make things worse for us than make them safe ... our country is more insecure than today ... wont we better before 1999 ?? no Taliban factor , no TTP , no foreign fighters , no band organizations , no suicide bombings etc.. ... world knows that we can not transfer the technology to any of Islamic country nor put our nukes into any other's soil ... than what might be reason to hold this title of " First Islamic country to get Nukes " ????when there is no benefit to it ?


I know lots of peoples here think that Nukes are the guaranty for our safety from India .. but this is also a reality that a full scale Nuclear war between Pakistan and India is impossible , and we can not fight with US , Nato or Israel with our current inventory ..because our missiles simply cant reach there ...
so here the deal what if we offer our nukes to UN and in return we ask for certain thing , what you guys think will be a better deal ?! and what if this all mess of WOT suddenly vanish after surrendering our nukes ? than we can be the tiger of Asia ....

P.s : i want a serious discussion on topic , so mods please try to make this thread clean from trolls , anyone can reply but only if you have something positive related to topic ..

@Horus @Oscar @MastanKhan @Zarvan @dexter @The Deterrent @Chak Bamu @DESERT FIGHTER @orangzaib @gambit @haviZsultan @Irfan Baloch @A.Rafay @Norwegian @The SC @Basel @Amstrong @FaujHistorian @Jungibaaz @fatman17 @Donatello @Windjammer @Solomon2 @500

Here are the Answer what i think US Acts on what best for them Even Now While US , Nato Is in Afg You Cant See big effect to control TTP In AFG ?

1 About India you gave example after world war 2 Europe and geo nd thinking got Changed Germany Doesnt have a Big Enemy whos right across their backyard waiting to attack them ? You Cant Put Japand nd germany in Pakisans place Why Because they were the mighty empires when no know even know About a country Called Pakistan they had one of the massive infrastructure and manpower to available to them which they used to develop their Country and Pakistan is a lot smaller country then India so they cant Compete with gun 2 gun level so they find a way to counter indian threat with least resources
Country geo scene is changing Russia is not Thinking of Pakistan But they are trying to get close to Pakistan While US is going away and in this world no one is your best friend only you are the one who can protect your self or else it will be too late
2
US Dont See Pakistan as threat yet but nothing lasts forever What If US tries to attack than These babies will be the Last resort not just US any one
3
Brotherly Islamic Nation You kidding me ? These Brotherly islamic nations are the biggest funders of terrorism in whole World Even in Pak. As i said World is changed yes Countries have good relations with each other which helps them in different way like economy , infrastructure , Weapons etc. ... nothing else And every time Pakistan tried to helped its brother muslim nation it only costed Pakistan TTP , al Qaeda talebain foreign fighters are the part of same coin Who Pakistan , KSA , US supported
People Say if we hadn't stopped Russia In afg soon they would have attacked Pak 2 ..bla bla
Pakistan Opened its arms to Afgs what they are doing now in Pak ? 90 % afg living in Pak they are just burden they hate Pak , they dont pay taxes , hide terrorists , Only Hurting Pakistan more the best thing For Pakistan is to become selfish

Answer me one thing If Pakistan Cant Fight with whole world what they should do tell me what are saying is they should just dis arm the army Stop protecting their country cz they dont have missiles which cant reach their These things take times its not you are on ebay or amazon and buy a new version which will be available to you in 2 3 days US , Took decades

 

[rockstar08]

No more Umbrellas of any Super Power, we lost East Pakistan while we where in Super Power's Umbrella. Pakistan should strengthen its own economy and defense, self reliance should be our aim and objective, we have to reduce foreign assistance and purchases of weapons step by step and bring it to minimum.

yeh sab sunne mai buhat acha lagta hai .. lakin reality is different ...

 

[SrNair]

Sir you need to double check the Turkey AF ...

I did.Entire fighter power is based on F 16 But I would agree with you if they had F 15s

 

[Darth Vader]

Oscar dont you think that Pakistan is strategically very important to US , like Japan and Germans are enjoying US friendship we can do same ??
imagine their Missiles stationed in Pak , will give a wet nightmare to Russians ...

Russia is not getting ready to Attack Pakistan they are investing in Pakistan

 

[rockstar08]

I did.Entire fighter power is based on F 16 But I would agree with you if they had F 15s

bhai f-16's blk 52 ko halka na lo
as they get F-35 ... you know their AF will be standing in top 10

 

[asq]

If your nuclear weapons and other expensive military gears are only India specific, then you need none of these, not even US protection, only if you can accept the ground realities; that Kashmir is a lost war, and move on. There are many far smaller and militarily weaker countries around India who don't feel threatened by us. I suggest, make peace and move on for a better future of South Asia.

Pakistan let India at partition got away with murder, the share of wealth, industry and treasury including many states it swallowed by force, than came Bangladesh it interfered, Indians has yet to show Pakistan speck of decency and reasonably, till that time Pakistan will contrInue to hammer the truth into pea brains Indians, expect what you dish out all the times, Kashmir was not settled due to inability of Pakistanis Leaders, times are changing, Indians wilt either free Kashmir or be alienated in the world, you watch and see, hegemony will not work any more, while Pakistan is fighting foreign trained infiltrators, it is infoming world of Indian killings and raping of Kashmiris, world will have to listen. and will take notice.

Now about nuclear umbrella from US, if we had leaders like Imran Khan and his negotiation skills than Pakistan could negotiate about nuclear deals by asking the world first get Kashmir free, than get India to apologize for its interference in east Pakistani, close it 10 consulates IN Afghanistan AND MAKE PAKISTAN AND Afghanistan ONE COUNTRY, THIS DISCUSSION been GOING ON FOR DECADES between Pakistan and Afghanistan, NOW IS THE TIME TO IMPLEMENT IT.

 

[Basel]

yeh sab sunne mai buhat acha lagta hai .. lakin reality is different ...

Since 1971 Pakistan have came long way in military self reliance its not difficult, just go and check the difference since then. Do you know Pakistan is capable of making its own SRAAM but it was dumped due to shortage of funds in Mush era.

Our political elites have destroyed economy if it start growing again and sustain it at good rate then Pakistan will be able to start its indigenous projects step by step which were shelved and speed up currently running one.

 

[rockstar08]

Here are the Answer what i think US Acts on what best for them Even Now While US , Nato Is in Afg You Cant See big effect to control TTP In AFG ?

1 About India you gave example after world war 2 Europe and geo nd thinking got Changed Germany Doesnt have a Big Enemy whos right across their backyard waiting to attack them ? You Cant Put Japand nd germany in Pakisans place Why Because they were the mighty empires when no know even know About a country Called Pakistan they had one of the massive infrastructure and manpower to available to them which they used to develop their Country and Pakistan is a lot smaller country then India so they cant Compete with gun 2 gun level so they find a way to counter indian threat with least resources
Country geo scene is changing Russia is not Thinking of Pakistan But they are trying to get close to Pakistan While US is going away and in this world no one is your best friend only you are the one who can protect your self or else it will be too late
2
US Dont See Pakistan as threat yet but nothing lasts forever What If US tries to attack than These babies will be the Last resort not just US any one
3
Brotherly Islamic Nation You kidding me ? These Brotherly islamic nations are the biggest funders of terrorism in whole World Even in Pak. As i said World is changed yes Countries have good relations with each other which helps them in different way like economy , infrastructure , Weapons etc. ... nothing else And every time Pakistan tried to helped its brother muslim nation it only costed Pakistan TTP , al Qaeda talebain foreign fighters are the part of same coin Who Pakistan , KSA , US supported
People Say if we hadn't stopped Russia In afg soon they would have attacked Pak 2 ..bla bla
Pakistan Opened its arms to Afgs what they are doing now in Pak ? 90 % afg living in Pak they are just burden they hate Pak , they dont pay taxes , hide terrorists , Only Hurting Pakistan more the best thing For Pakistan is to become selfish

Answer me one thing If Pakistan Cant Fight with whole world what they should do tell me what are saying is they should just dis arm the army Stop protecting their country cz they dont have missiles which cant reach their These things take times its not you are on ebay or amazon and buy a new version which will be available to you in 2 3 days US , Took decades

bhai ap tu emotional ho gae ... anyway i agree with what you say about Arabs and Afghans they need to be kick out of Pak asap ....
but i believe a strong conventional army is need of a time for Pakistan ..

 

[SrNair]

bhai f-16's blk 52 ko halka na lo
as they get F-35 ... you know their AF will be standing in top 10

I agree with that F 35 would be a game changer.But FGFA would again change that for our favour.I have a confidence about that because we are competing with PRC.
Sorry no more off topic

Actually, India is slightly inferior.. As I said, this is long drawn out debate but a closer look beyond what you consider are gauges for Air power will help. Its not about the number of aircraft.. its about how well they are ALL equipped. By the time India gets those 126 fighters.. the Turks will having an equivalent number of 5th Generation low observable assets in their inventory.
You cant be better than everybody, the day Desis learn that is the day they move beyond their own demons.

 

[rockstar08]

Since 1971 Pakistan have came long way in military self reliance its not difficult, just go and check the difference since then. Do you know Pakistan is capable of making its own SRAAM but it was dumped due to shortage of funds in Mush era.

Our political elites have destroyed economy if it start growing again and sustain it at good rate then Pakistan will be able to start its indigenous projects step by step which were shelved and speed up currently running one.

and you think they will let Pakistan stand on their feet ??
a strong and stable Pakistan is not in favor of India , which they hate most to see ..
and today war are fought in proxies form .. since when you are starting to realize that we are able to remove this Taliban factor from our Country ??
yesterday it was Al-qaeda , today its TTP and tomorrow it will be ISIS ...

 

[Judge]

Alright, fair enough. But what if that check is provided by China in general? Keeping India under a mirror of its "Tea Party" ideals only helps the US make sure India takes decisions where its immediate business lies and not what may benefit the nation 10-20 years down the line. Eventually, MNCs moving most of Indian foreign policy may end up being the reality of American influence on India.

Yes, but that would be true if Indian leaders were decidedly incompetent. So far, I have reason to believe that at the very worst case every decade (or two), a competent Prime Minister comes along to push things.

You see 'Tea Party' ideals cut both ways. Its a double edged blade. It can make us stronger or it can act negatively. These very same fears have been expressed before and the results have (in India) always shown that they have made India stronger. The very same Indian companies that feared foreign competition have become MNC's. They are beating American corporations not just in India but also in third countries. The very same talent that joined these foreign MNC's leaves them after learning their business and setup their own ventures.

And secondly, when a market as big as India wants something, what makes you think that these same American/Western MNC's will not lobby with US government to do what India wants - so as not to lose a market. This is already happening.

Thirdly, since you live in the US - you would know how many of major corporations in US have Indians in key positions. These Indians in general exert enormous pressures to ensure that their companies put more and more investment in India. Eventually you have corps that have 60% of their entire workforce in India - from their basic tech support to their entire R&D centers but are US corporations only in name(to obtain benefits that come with being an American company).

The blade cuts both ways.

As for US, she will always have need of a country that keeps India focused on South Asia and does not indulge in power plays. Pakistan is a 'made to order' country for that purpose - one who needs constant external boost to contain India and one that will never be able to do it on their own thereby making them dependent on big powers. Lastly, the instrinsic need of Pakistani population/establishment to oppose India as not the means to an end, but an end in itself is just the cherry on the top.

 

[Darth Vader]

bhai ap tu emotional ho gae ... anyway i agree with what you say about Arabs and Afghans they need to be kick out of Pak asap ....
but i believe a strong conventional army is need of a time for Pakistan ..

EMO you are kidding right i answer what you what you wrote
About Strong Convt Army is need of time Nop Strong Economy is and the development of Pakistan when this happens you can buy all the goodies from whoever you want You need Money Which Pak currently doesn't have

 

[rockstar08]

Russia is not getting ready to Attack Pakistan they are investing in Pakistan

nor did india ... but india is not investing in anything positive .. their most of the investment directly go to pockets of Insurgents ..

 

[trident2010]

Kashmir will never be a lost cause .. and we dont trust indians , examples ... 2002 and 2008 stand off ..

Then why open a new thread and talk big? Carry on what you been doing for years.