Why not an indigenous Pakistani jet engine?

[Sheikh Rauf]

I support the idea of starting these projects we cud use our brain who have been draining to west.
Corruption is the key to control here first and then foreign pressures from our own gov.
We can't involve army in everything steel mill is important in this development. I am sure our engineer knows how it works just need to start it from somewhere getting evolve with car and motor bike would put us 30 years back .. it's better we start from jumping in deep water to learn swim rather than baby steps.
Begging money is no solution and asking help won't get us anywhere close to target.. it's a country of 200 million people, small amount of taxes cud generate a lot of money for this projects.
We need a leadership who actually live work and have will to do things for Pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think the real challenge is perhaps diplomatic pressure to never allow start of such projects in Pakistan

There is always this mysterious pressure to
a) Not start projects related to car engine
b) Not start projects related to locomotives
c) Not start projects related to fighter jet engine
d) Not start projects related to marine ship engine

Mechanical Engineers can technically recreate any item once they have a copy in hand

Also I just don't think never in our history did we allocated sufficient research funding for Engine Tech right at home

80% of Engine can be made in Pakistan the 20% new effort sure it may be tough but unless you start at someone you will never reach the goals

 

[tarrar]

Pakistan can build engines with the help of friends of Pakistan. Turkey, Italy, China & Ukraine can help Pakistan make engines.

 

[Sneaker]

Mechanical Engineers can technically recreate any item once they have a copy in hand

Sorry. It requires a lot of other technologies including know-hows and material science to create complex things like engines. Just a copy wont do. That is why pakistan, china or india haven't able to come up with their own engines (well, in case of latter 2, it is jet engines). Ofcourse, you might be able to create an engine to match technology of 1947 for the sake of it, but that would be a pure waste of everything that goes into the engine..

 

[sady]

Well we can if we stop if we collect all tax, stop corruption and inefficient projects. Well that would be even more difficult ini?

 

[T-Rex]

I think the real challenge is perhaps diplomatic pressure to never allow start of such projects in Pakistan

There is always this mysterious pressure to
a) Not start projects related to car engine
b) Not start projects related to locomotives
c) Not start projects related to fighter jet engine
d) Not start projects related to marine ship engine

Mechanical Engineers can technically recreate any item once they have a copy in hand

Also I just don't think never in our history did we allocated sufficient research funding for Engine Tech right at home

80% of Engine can be made in Pakistan the 20% new effort sure it may be tough but unless you start at someone you will never reach the goals

The mysterious pressure works only because somebody in Pakistan gets handsomely paid for stopping such projects. You cannot control what your neighbour does but you can definitely do something to control what your family members do.

 

[Gim Foxhound]

It is impossible given Pakistan's current development level to manufacture an engine.

Nothing it is impossible. Pakistan does have the potential to do, and have enough talents engineers to implement such project. However in order to do that, U need to have tools machinery suitable, metallurgy industry, technicians and teachers and personal. Pakistan has. In order to do this U need to test, correct, re-test etc...It asks huge amount of money. However your country lacks of money.

China lagged behind Russia, Europe and US for a while, however as long as they decided to catch up the late, they caught up the late, and now their WS-10 is mass produced, WS-13 seems to be ready, and the WS-15 its deployement is imminent, it means it is ready in the near future. Because in 2010 the chinese leaders decided to invest nearly 16 billions $ in the indigenous jet engine , if you try to transpose with US standard, regarding the level of life in China, it represents at least 50 billions $. In this condition China in few years will be the leader in this area.

As your country lacks of money it will be harder to find 50 billions $, then Pak needs to find partners for its JF-17's engine. Notice that your neighboors Iran implements their jet engine too. They are not more intelligent than Pakistan, but just richer than Pakistan.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Nothing it is impossible. Pakistan does have the potential to do, and have enough talents engineers to implement such project. However in order to do that, U need to have tools machinery suitable, metallurgy industry, technicians and teachers and personal. Pakistan has. In order to do this U need to test, correct, re-test etc...It asks huge amount of money. However your country lacks of money.

China lagged behind Russia, Europe and US for a while, however as long as they decided to catch up the late, they caught up the late, and now their WS-10 is mass produced, WS-13 seems to be ready, and the WS-15 its deployement is imminent, it means it is ready in the near future. Because in 2010 the chinese leaders decided to invest nearly 16 billions $ in the indigenous jet engine , if you try to transpose with US standard, regarding the level of life in China, it represents at least 50 billions $. In this condition China in few years will be the leader in this area.

As your country lacks of money it will be harder to find 50 billions $, then Pak needs to find partners for its JF-17's engine. Notice that your neighboors Iran implements their jet engine too. They are not more intelligent than Pakistan, but just richer than Pakistan.

That comment by araz was from 2009, things where not going very well then. Mainly thanks to this guy

Obviously now with the new aviation city it will probably happen in due time.

A foreign firm will probably be contracted to work in Pakistan to develop a jet engine for Pakistani fighter jets. Similar to what Turkey is doing with rolls royce.

 

[Gim Foxhound]

That comment by araz was from 2009, things where not going very well then. Mainly thanks to this guy View attachment 410648

Obviously now with the new aviation city it will probably happen in due time.

A foreign firm will probably be contracted to work in Pakistan to develop a jet engine for Pakistani fighter jets. Similar to what Turkey is doing with rolls royce.

I don't know the political situation that prevails in Pakistan, U know better than me. However at the question if the Pakistan is able to design and build an indigenous jet engine like RD-33, or AL-41FN -vector thrust with Fadec- my answer is Yes, Pakistan does have enough know how to do it. It is just a matter of money, and political will.
In anyway in the next future, Pakistan won't have other choice to build its own jet engine.

 

[abp94]

I don't know the political situation that prevails in Pakistan, U know better than me. However at the question if the Pakistan is able to design and build an indigenous jet engine like RD-33, or AL-41FN -vector thrust with Fadec- my answer is Yes, Pakistan does have enough know how to do it. It is just a matter of money, and political will.

I disagree. It is also a matter of reliability and product quality.

Operational facilities do perform maintenance of jets throughout this country, and maintenance does require a lot of know-how, but can we rely on the same facilities or even improved ones to provide consistent quality of design? I'm not so sure

It is something we should look into, as it could be a real money spinner for us, if we can enter into this sector on our own, not only would it save money, we could also look to sell stuff in the future. Would require huge investment though

 

[Gim Foxhound]

Would require huge investment though

For Pakistan it is the most crucial problem.

 

[niaz]

I have read the posts with great interest and in my opinion we are trying to run before we can jump. Natural progression should be automotive engines, small power generating gas turbines and then turbine aero engines.

I worked for one year at the National Engineering Laboratories, East Kilbride near Glasgow back in 1966 -1967 just after completing my M.Sc. in Chem. Eng’g. Rolls Royce aero- engines repair & maintenance facility was located next door. I became friendly with engineers working there and had the opportunity to visit the plant and discussion with the people about aero-engines.

The problem is not only human resource but also availability of the special alloys required for the high power jet engines.

Air needs to be compressed more than 30 times and temperature inside the multistage compressor can reach about 1000 deg C whereas in the combustion chamber it can reach as high as 2000 deg C. Therefore super alloys; so called because of having excellent mechanical strength, resistance to thermal creep deformation, good surface stability, and resistance to corrosion or oxidation; are needed. For example:

Compressor is made of Nickel, Cobalt and iron based alloys with small quantities of Aluminium, and /or Titanium as well as Rare Earths such as Yttrium.

Combustion chamber is manufacture from super alloys (alloys of Tungsten, Molybdenum, Niobium etc.)

Turbine blades are made of Nickel based super alloys and often grown as a single ‘Crystal’ aka mono crystalline material.

Exhaust nozzles are constructed from Nickel, Inconel and stainless steel.

Very few countries have the technical know-how and access to the metals named above that is why even China has to sometimes purchase aero-engines from Russia.

Can Pakistan theoretically design and build high performance jet engines, say similar to RD 93 for JF 17?

Yes; possibly in a few years if sufficient funds & human resources are allocated. But logic dictates that it would be more economical to buy these off the shelf from countries like Russia and / or China and put the country’s limited resources to more productive use.

 

[Syed Asif Bukhari]

I have read the posts with great interest and in my opinion we are trying to run before we can jump. Natural progression should be automotive engines, small power generating gas turbines and then turbine aero engines.

I worked for one year at the National Engineering Laboratories, East Kilbride near Glasgow back in 1966 -1967 just after completing my M.Sc. in Chem. Eng’g. Rolls Royce aero- engines repair & maintenance facility was located next door. I became friendly with engineers working there and had the opportunity to visit the plant and discussion with the people about aero-engines.

The problem is not only human resource but also availability of the special alloys required for the high power jet engines.

Air needs to be compressed more than 30 times and temperature inside the multistage compressor can reach about 1000 deg C whereas in the combustion chamber it can reach as high as 2000 deg C. Therefore super alloys; so called because of having excellent mechanical strength, resistance to thermal creep deformation, good surface stability, and resistance to corrosion or oxidation; are needed. For example:

Compressor is made of Nickel, Cobalt and iron based alloys with small quantities of Aluminium, and /or Titanium as well as Rare Earths such as Yttrium.

Combustion chamber is manufacture from super alloys (alloys of Tungsten, Molybdenum, Niobium etc.)

Turbine blades are made of Nickel based super alloys and often grown as a single ‘Crystal’ aka mono crystalline material.

Exhaust nozzles are constructed from Nickel, Inconel and stainless steel.

Very few countries have the technical know-how and access to the metals named above that is why even China has to sometimes purchase aero-engines from Russia.

Can Pakistan theoretically design and build high performance jet engines, say similar to RD 93 for JF 17?

Yes; possibly in a few years if sufficient funds & human resources are allocated. But logic dictates that it would be more economical to buy these off the shelf from countries like Russia and / or China and put the country’s limited resources to more productive use.

sir being a student of metallurgy and manufacturing , I can say at least such things are taught rigorously in academia . i wonder when i hear we have to import steel from china . the reason is not the technical and industrial capability . the real reason is economics . we can surely make a automobile engine . but first , who will prefer made in Pakistan engine and it will be obviously costly than imported one .

 

[Mugwop]

WS-13 license or research on scramjet tech would be a start.

 

[bananarepublic]

pakistan literally has only one metallurgical know how complex the HMC (correct me if i am wrong) but metallurgy play an important part in construction of jet engines so i believe we should start from there...