Why no Pakistani helicopter manufacturing/assembling program?

[araz]

China is working with heavy load helicopters able to lift alkhalid tanks so they are doing advance probems solving

Reference:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47498000/jpg/_47498786_008976530-1.jpg

They are not working on Attak Helicopters -

They have 1000+ helicopters in their arsenel able to support their armed units , we are lacking in transport vehicles and support from air to military .... in close combats

Making Helicopters that can move artilery , APC , light tanks, is one difficult engineering challenge - they are already well knowledged in basic 1-2 personnel helicopters


We on the other hand have no helicopters of our own , used in our civilian sector , and we have no decent attack helicopter options beyond the cobras which will have severe parts shortage in few years time as the cobras are now not produced anymore ... at leats the ones we have

a) Either we learn to make the parts
b) We make our own attack copters so we don't have to seek parts from junk yards

AzadPakistan
Read my post again.China does have an attack helo programme called WZ10.The main problem is with engines.The Programme that you have highlighted is also in geopurdy due to lack of engines. China may have done a lot and i wish them the best of luck and I feel that our progress is related to their progress.However this is not the point.Helicopter mechanics and design are quite difficult. for the numbers required,it can no in any way be our priority, buy any stroke of imagination.We are at least a decade away from where we can even think of absorbing the technology to make a Helicopter.
Regards
Araz

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

But it would have been nice if we have 50 of these heavy transport planes in our fleet

 

[nightcrawler]

here is where true problem lies
1) Our technical staff
2) Our economy

no need to explain the later one but the former is of great concern. Helis require a great deal of electronic knowledge especially when you are dealing with rotors at great rpm. Also the sensors & the related equipment require a great electronic circuit knowledge. Just look at the avionics of jf17 which totally are imported!!
I haven't seen a Pakistani handheld radio or even a wristwatch why because when it comes at miniaturization of technology Pakistan have got no solution.
An immediate domestic solution is to develop unmanned helis rather a full fledge heli. This will attract foreign investors namely Iran Saudis or even Chinese & will provide the domestic companies the basic working model of a heli which when optimised with due considerations will channelize the development of Homegrown fully equipped heli

 

[pak-yes]

The sole Problem that 99.99999% of my Pakistani Bros don't seem to know.

ECONOMY.

Sir,

Bring Money and we can make everything from Helicopters to Satellites.

BUT we don't have the economy.We don't have the money.

I hate to say but if all these old Politics continue one day even Indians will truly get ahead of us.

 

[s6demon]

The sole Problem that 99.99999% of my Pakistani Bros don't seem to know.

ECONOMY.

Bring Money and we can make everything from Helicopters to Satellites.

Agreed with you there. the top reasons for not having our own programs for many things, heli, SLV, etc etc, is economical.

But that isnt the only thing. The second thing missing is the political will.

When we needed the nuclear technology we managed to achieve it against every odd, even economical. We all agreed to eat grass for a 1000 years if it ensured the safety of our country.

So economy isnt the only factor here. If we had the political will, we can achieve this goal. it is not very difficult. it really isnt.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think its too easy to say that we can't do it ... just blame it on the micro technologies

Lets just imagine if ... we can get 40 engineers , 40 workers commited in project for
1 Million USD what we could do , never mind the tecnical problems

a) Landing skid can be made in Pakistan
b) Tail boom can be made in Pakistan
c) Rotars can be made in Industries in Pakistan
d) Our engineers can develop the specs for the connectin the
rotar to the mast /transmission we have that
d) Engine we export a 10 engine out form china
e) Our Aeronautical complex can develop the carbon fibre body for the
helicopter that we will be testing ... very simple process you get whole piace
f) We connect the engine , into the transmission part (notice same logic as in cars)
g) Now the mechanical engineers develop the control for activating the elevator and
also adding ability for the rear tail to spin faster (turning the copter)
h) We had basic secured seat for 2 pilot

There is no radar
There is no weapons system
There is no Gauges for any info from engine , fuel system , elevation nothing just basic
simple helicopter with this body ....

So this is 100% doable in Pakistan -

End of this stage , when someone will sit in , turn on engine helicopter will start as normal you can hooer up and down

Year 1 - objectives done


Year 2
Refine the prototype and see if you can move it across blocks and fly around
after you install basic elevation gauges , pull the equipment form old retired planes and
let your mechanical engineers hook it up the helicopters.

You also gradually start to more gauges that help flying the craft ... and to try to fly acros the city , test hoovering and landing

You push the engine a bit max power few times .... do some advance manuvers

Year 3 : Add the radar install basic radar capabilities
see how the helicopter adjust to the weight of radar
try to balance the over all weight distribution of weight

Try to find out how much weigh the copter an carry with lift excercies

Year 4 : Install , basic fire control system add a targeting pod infront of the copter
just tak ethe software technogy we have in UAV move it on helicopter
platform, and use the JF17 hud system and see if that same targeting
mechanism an be reused in the copter start with 2 light rockets
wire it up ... (This is same as JF17 thunder project)

Fine tune for targeting , ground operations test guns , missile launch
see how copter reacts to missile weights

Year 5 : Presentation - Release 10 prototypes for use by Army
see how these do fro 1 year

Year 6 : Mass produce - 50 units for Army , sell off 20 units to other countries
and recover cost of research and development

 

[rubyjackass]

I think there is no demand in Pakistan, not enough to sustain an industry unless it manufactures very few per year which again means not a sund investment.

 

[Indian-Devil]

I think its too easy to say that we can't do it ... just blame it on the micro technologies

Lets just imagine if ... we can get 40 engineers , 40 workers commited in project for
1 Million USD what we could do , never mind the tecnical problems

a) Landing skid can be made in Pakistan
b) Tail boom can be made in Pakistan
c) Rotars can be made in Industries in Pakistan
d) Our engineers can develop the specs for the connectin the
rotar to the mast /transmission we have that
d) Engine we export a 10 engine out form china
e) Our Aeronautical complex can develop the carbon fibre body for the
helicopter that we will be testing ... very simple process you get whole piace
f) We connect the engine , into the transmission part (notice same logic as in cars)
g) Now the mechanical engineers develop the control for activating the elevator and
also adding ability for the rear tail to spin faster (turning the copter)
h) We had basic secured seat for 2 pilot

There is no radar
There is no weapons system
There is no Gauges for any info from engine , fuel system , elevation nothing just basic
simple helicopter with this body ....

So this is 100% doable in Pakistan -

End of this stage , when someone will sit in , turn on engine helicopter will start as normal you can hooer up and down

Year 1 - objectives done


Year 2
Refine the prototype and see if you can move it across blocks and fly around
after you install basic elevation gauges , pull the equipment form old retired planes and
let your mechanical engineers hook it up the helicopters.

You also gradually start to more gauges that help flying the craft ... and to try to fly acros the city , test hoovering and landing

You push the engine a bit max power few times .... do some advance manuvers

Year 3 : Add the radar install basic radar capabilities
see how the helicopter adjust to the weight of radar
try to balance the over all weight distribution of weight

Try to find out how much weigh the copter an carry with lift excercies

Year 4 : Install , basic fire control system add a targeting pod infront of the copter
just tak ethe software technogy we have in UAV move it on helicopter
platform, and use the JF17 hud system and see if that same targeting
mechanism an be reused in the copter start with 2 light rockets
wire it up ... (This is same as JF17 thunder project)

Fine tune for targeting , ground operations test guns , missile launch
see how copter reacts to missile weights

Year 5 : Presentation - Release 10 prototypes for use by Army
see how these do fro 1 year

Year 6 : Mass produce - 50 units for Army , sell off 20 units to other countries
and recover cost of research and development

Bhaijaan Such a detailed plan for manufacturing the helicopters
Seems like sharing a experience of any helicopter production cycle. But Is it really so easy , I donot think so. Even the regular helicopter manufacturers take more time in development that you explained.
Check the history of the few manufacturers and see the cost also which is involved and for the freshers how much it would be ??

 

[XYON]

Economies of Scale to have in-country manufacturing of heavy, medium lift helicopters is not feasible. Light Helicopters (2-seater) however are a possibility provided they are also used commercially (news TV's, traffic police, police, LEA's etc). In the early 90's there was a plan to consider the manufacturing of Bell 412 in Pakistan but that did not get off the ground as the Government of Pakistan was not willing to be a part of the project or even to guarantee purchase of these helicopters made in-country. Again in current economic downturn it would be highly unlikely that anyone will like to invest for such a project in Pakistan.

 

[nomi007]

we have some option to build indigenous type of both attack & utility helicopter with the help of turkey,china & Ukraine.but Pakistan army or air force is showing interest in this field

 

[Nishan_101]

AZADPAKISTAN2009 is quite right that PAC should undertake projects like doing joint ventures with turkey or any other E.U country in building choppers like AS-550 Fennec, AS-565 Panther, EH-101, AH-64D Apache with the avionics being jointly developed. Also they must forced the GOP to give money like in 200or so to build a complex for electronics and sensors R&D that would do Joint venture with west is developing Air defence system as well as other electronics components that can used by our airforce as avionics , by navy and even by our army in their military equipment also they could also provide assistant in making weapons by providing sensors and electronics for different class of weapons, and try to build a facility like engine complex for our military that will do joint venture or licence production in making engines for jets, turbo props planes, choppers engines and other kind of engines for army and navy.
I think if they would have done the J.V with E.U, then it would a much bigger not only fill our military requirements but also for local market within the Pak like:
Army : 60 AS550, 60-70 AS-565 Panther,120+ EH-101, 100 AH-64D Apache.
Air force: 30 AS-565 Panther, 20+ EH-101.
Navy:15 AS-565 Panther, 20+ EH-101.
The above choppers i mention is not the actual names that i want to post the class they belong like small, medium and heavy.
Other than that these kind of choppers could be easily offered to GOP to replace their russian,U.S and E.U choppers which are expensive to mantain

 

[Nishan_101]

Agreed with you there. the top reasons for not having our own programs for many things, heli, SLV, etc etc, is economical.

But that isnt the only thing. The second thing missing is the political will.

When we needed the nuclear technology we managed to achieve it against every odd, even economical. We all agreed to eat grass for a 1000 years if it ensured the safety of our country.

So economy isnt the only factor here. If we had the political will, we can achieve this goal. it is not very difficult. it really isnt.

Yes you two bros are quite true but i really wanted to one i thing that every one should think before answering it is that if GOP open such UNversities like in 4-5 cities in pakistan that will teach students about Aeronautics, avionics/electronics and aero-engines engineering and even Masters in respective fields then it will quite good for private industries that they should come up with their own R7D centres and as well as facility or industries to produce choppers and even trainers like basic Super Mushak as well as trainers used for training purpose of C-130's , Saab-2000s and other commercial training purposes. Then it will be quite good, although you would say that were is the money in our private sector thats not a big problem because of the fact that they might have shifted their money to west in terms of investment because of the downturn caused by our politics as well as electricity and water shotages.

 

[Quwa]

Requirement for substantial numbers of light and medium utility helicopters does exist in Pakistan's military, civil and even private services sectors; but unfortunately the country has a tight financial budget and a lack of vision. Just expect it to procure more Bell 412EP and Mi-171 for the time being. However, after 2015 we should expect to see some substantial movement as programs such as AW149 and the Chinese Z-15 enter the fore.

 

[genetic_nomad]

it is a long shot but I wonder if India were to provide the Shakti (Indo-French) engine to Pakistan. man the economic opportunities of Indo-Pak friendship have tremendous potential. If only our politicians can amicably resolve the pending issues.

 

[Quwa]

it is a long shot but I wonder if India were to provide the Shakti (Indo-French) engine to Pakistan. man the economic opportunities of Indo-Pak friendship have tremendous potential. If only our politicians can amicably resolve the pending issues.

If Pakistan were to ever consider helicopter development, then its main partners will likely include China, Turkey and Europe/U.S. However, if there was actual vision, then we would've seen Pakistan jump aboard the South African New Attack Helicopter (NAH) program.