Why no Pakistani helicopter manufacturing/assembling program?

[Mani2020]

Dude we are talking about Helicopter, risking the life of men at work. Not rikshaw...lolzz
(need to have total knowledge of metallurgy and labs)

buddy thats wat um trying to make him understand but he is AZADPAKISTAN lol u can expect anythng from him i always use to say samethng about him

No offense AZADPAKISTAN bro

 

[mjnaushad]

I think we need to understand that making a plane and making a heli are two different things. Both fly in air but requires totally different kind of research. i believe planes are easier than heli maybe thats the reason plane was invented first and heli many decades after invention of plane. In plane if your engine fails in middle of flight you still have a chance to land safely but in heli.....it will come down like a rock. Its not about just putting two blades on an airframe and we are all set. Its hell lot of R&D. hell lot of money. And its doesn't end here. If we make it we'll have to make as state of the art. because its no good if you do all the work and make a heli which will compete with some 1980's chopper. So i think our own heli project. i dont see it anywhere near. because we just dont need it. We dont need 100's of attack choppers or transport one. so whats the point on investing alot on something which you dont need in high numbers.

 

[cabatli_53]

Fisrt of all, I honestly want to see a domestic helicopter designed and developed by Pakistani engineers for future but Somthing should known...

-Domestic Programs need incredible amounts of money to support the program from the beggining to the final phase. You can overcome to this problem with joining a program of a friendly country...

For Example, Turkish Altay Tank Program.
*R&D money = 700 million $
*Paid for S. Korean Technology transfer = 320-400 million $
*70 million $ to build just 4 prototipes
*120mm HEAT munition R&D and production
*120mm Laser guided missile R&D and production
*Stabilised guns
+
*After the prototipes passed the trials, Turkey will produce totally 1000 Altay MBT worth around 14.4 billio $ (If we take the value of per tank about 12 million $)

-Additions, Domestic programs needs expertises so Turkey is choosing some foreign countries as a technological supplier and benefit their expertises to develop our own at first..

-The most important part of an helicopter is the engine section and Some special countries have such complex low weight and most powerful engine technology in World so The countries determining on developing their own helicopters should find an engine supplier institue so Before you start developing your platforms, You should sign an agreement with an engine producer insttue, If you do not want to fall in difficulties.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I just wanted to raise a question , why is it that countries with Sanctions like our friends to west can build their own helicopters

Bell / Cobras

There is no reason why we should not have NEW helicopter being produced so we can phase out the retireing helicopters that are 20+ years old

Why is it that our Industry cannot manufacture a advance Helicopter for our national needs, if we too the 500-800million for refurbishment and instead invested that into a Helicopter production project would we not have self reliance in Helicopter production no different then what we have achieved with JF17 Thunder project

I am sure with certain assitance from China we can use their Engines and a universal airframe for the helicopter and develop something that can carry a gun , and missile launch and attack capability


Perhaps this could be something we can jointly produce with Egypt/China - If egypt signs the purchase agreement of JF17 thunders in large quantities ?

We already have the capabilities to develop missiles that can track and target, and hit with solid accuracy , we have the avionics integration experience working on Thunder project .....

We just need to arrange for the engines thru china , or produce one locally.

I am positive if we put our minds to the project we can achive great results

Lets look at the situation

a) We have engineers
b) We have mechanics that can operate engines
c) We have electrical engineers that can hook up circuits
d) We have Engineers also experienced in helicopter maintenence
e) We have ties with other countries to export in engines
f) We could also produce engines if we put our heads around to it
g) We already have the missiles and target and shoot knowledge
h) We already produce Italian radars locally under licence (I know its for planes but)
but I am sure we can find ways to developer things further
i) We have the reconicence perfected with UAV development , we can use those
same capabilities in helicopters exact same knowledge ....

We produce our own steel in steels mills and all the raw material needed to construct the body of the helicopter...

So really we should be flying our own helicopters - and not just wait to get helicopters
delivered to us after 4-6 years delays

I'm not really sure how to respond to this and other rather naive posts in response.

my 2 cents.

Please do appreciate that a helicopter is powered by a jet engine, usually 2 Jet engines.

we do not have that expertise as yet.

Please also appreciate that a considerable setup is required to assemble and manufacture an already designed vehicle.

We do not have that as yet.

Even if we get to the design phase, a lot of back ground is required in alloy design and metallurgy in general.

We do not have that as yet !

Lastly, projects like this are initiated by people with vision and aspiration of doing more than "NAUKRI".

We are still waiting for that type to show up amongst the blasted afsari !

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well cooperation with turkey would be useful they are very kind to us to allow us upgrades to the cobras

But I am positive we can also make something 80%-85% capability of older attack helicopters

China is always there , but even if we purcahse the items form China its great

Becasue we must really try to have 1 model that is locally produced in our industry ?

 

[Indian-Devil]

Well cooperation with turkey would be useful they are very kind to us to allow us upgrades to the cobras

But I am positive we can also make something 80%-85% capability of older attack helicopters

China is always there , but even if we purcahse the items form China its great

Becasue we must really try to have 1 model that is locally produced in our industry ?

If you want a locally produce machine then also you need to have TOT from some expert along with Engines which are crucial for this flying machine & these key technologies are not shared by manufacturing companies.
Senior guys have already explained that in "First Attempt" you need to invest a lot and these are not so easy to design by Universities guys. You can check the history of the nations and the aviation industries, who build their own helicopters and how much they have invested on them.

 

[Dazzler]

I have a rather simple theory. It is more of a matter of priorities as we were never concerned about helos that much. If we can make the Atom Bomb, helo project should not be a problem. Just that we never wanted to make one indigenous.

 

[Dark Angel]

I'm not really sure how to respond to this and other rather naive posts in response.

my 2 cents.

Please do appreciate that a helicopter is powered by a jet engine, usually 2 Jet engines.

we do not have that expertise as yet.

Please also appreciate that a considerable setup is required to assemble and manufacture an already designed vehicle.

We do not have that as yet.

Even if we get to the design phase, a lot of back ground is required in alloy design and metallurgy in general.

We do not have that as yet !

Lastly, projects like this are initiated by people with vision and aspiration of doing more than "NAUKRI".

We are still waiting for that type to show up amongst the blasted afsari !

A Heli is powered by a turboshaft engine


A turboshaft engine is a form of gas turbine which is optimized to produce shaft power, rather than jet thrust. In principle, a turboshaft engine is similar to a turbojet, except the former features additional turbine expansion to extract heat energy from the exhaust and convert it into output shaft power.

Turboshaft engines are commonly used in applications which require a sustained high power output, high reliability, small size and light weight. These include helicopters, auxiliary power units, boats and ships, tanks, hovercraft, and stationary equipment



The HAL/Turbomeca Shakti (called the Ardiden 1H by Turbomeca) is a turboshaft helicopter engine jointly developed by India and France

 

[Dark Angel]

So i think pakistan could co-develop something good with China Cheers

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I don't even think we need to invest too much cash we have the K8 platform ... just need to make room for the engine that controls the hoovering (the top part) and replacing the rear , end tail with the fan at back to turn the whole craft direction ....

The twin engines are already there on the K8 that move or thrust the vehicle forward etc ...


Here you go step by step instruction how to build a safari helicopter

Reference
http://www3.telus.net/public/wsm/C-GOEZ.htm

Max 10 million USD dollar would get Pakistan their own Attack Helicopter since all labour is so in expensive in Pakistan, and for advance R&D 20 million more weapons and quality assurance

 

[mjnaushad]

Well I don't even think we need to invest too much cash we have the K8 platform ... just need to make room for the engine that controls the hoovering (the top part) and replacing the rear , end tail with the fan at back to turn the whole craft direction ....

The twin engines are already there on the K8 that move or thrust the vehicle forward etc ...


Here you go step by step instruction how to build a safari helicopter

Reference
C-GOEZ : Building a Safari (aka Baby Belle) Helicopter Kit

why dont you sell this patent to PA. they'll happy to buy it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

why dont you sell this patent to PA. they'll happy to buy it.

Why don't they invest 50 Million into local production of a helicopter , if you read the link its 1 man building tht helicopter in his back yard - but really you can see the principle and engineering is not that difficult -


Every thing is available in market
a) The avionics
b) Radars , we already have licnece from companies to use italian radars for K8
c) engines 200-300hp engines

Its all there but initiative is needed instead of sitting on a diwar , and waiting for cobras to come to US ...

I think its just matter of putting our engineers on the technical challenge that is all

We have all the work done in K8 platform , just need some modification work on the body of K8 platform to convert it to hold the extra engine , that will lift and hover the craft

We would be producing our own copters the K8 already has the twin engines setup on sides similar to super cobras -

Perhas they should follow the engineer who is building this helicopter in his own spare time

how to step by step guide that the tutorial shows or just hire that guy .. to build us our copter surely he has no problem putting together a helicopter

Look he even finished his helicopter and logged in hours to fly it ... how good is that for 1 men who wanted to build a helicopter

The chinese are working on advance issues, like lifting tanks and APC with the helicopters and heavy load , we need attack helicopters which is two different problems

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Well I don't even think we need to invest too much cash we have the K8 platform ... just need to make room for the engine that controls the hoovering (the top part) and replacing the rear , end tail with the fan at back to turn the whole craft direction ....

The twin engines are already there on the K8 that move or thrust the vehicle forward etc ...


Here you go step by step instruction how to build a safari helicopter

Reference
C-GOEZ : Building a Safari (aka Baby Belle) Helicopter Kit

Max 10 million USD dollar would get Pakistan their own Attack Helicopter since all labour is so in expensive in Pakistan, and for advance R&D 20 million more weapons and quality assurance

what the hell.....what on earth have u made from these two.
bro currently Pakistan is looking to gain massive success in technologies like missile,ships,submarines,tanks,fighter/trainer aircrafts,weapons,military-transport,etc n a lot to mention..
bro Pakistan is already working on different projects and gain much success in their fields and keep on going forward.though its not difficult to built an helicopter cuz Pakistan overhaul most of its helos at home.
but it cost in money and time.

 

[cabatli_53]

Well cooperation with turkey would be useful they are very kind to us to allow us upgrades to the cobras

Indeed. Even If I want to hear a news about domestic helcopter developed by Pakistani engineers, It is almost impossible to manage it without taking any help from outside at first attempt and so I guess Pakistan and Turkey will go to a great defence cooperations after 2014-15's. One of them will be T-129 Atak. Atak technology will presents to Pakistan MMW radar, HMDU, FLIR, Avionic integration, Mission computer, 70mm guided missile, Guided AT Missiles and fuselage production technologies.

If Pakistan selects China to cooperate for attack helicopters, Then, I think Both brother nation will cooperate about Low and Medium altitude SAM and radar technologies...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Indeed. Even If I want to hear a news about domestic helcopter developed by Pakistani engineers, It is almost impossible to manage it without taking any help from outside at first attempt and so I guess Pakistan and Turkey will go to a great defence cooperations after 2014-15's. One of them will be T-129 Atak. Atak technology will presents to Pakistan MMW radar, HMDU, FLIR, Avionic integration, Mission computer, 70mm guided missile, Guided AT Missiles and fuselage production technologies.

If Pakistan selects China to cooperate for attack helicopters, Then, I think Both brother nation will cooperate about Low and Medium altitude SAM and radar technologies...

I think this is a project that both Pakistan and Turkey should work on 100% we should invest frist in turkey's helicopter , and then slowly learn some skills in making smaller helicopters may be we can use them on boarder patrols or small mission or for police force and then make it for military, China could be silent partner as well -