Why no action yet against source of dawn leaks?

[Verve]

Bhutto legacy? PPP wil again be winning in Sind, most probably..owing to bilawal Bhutto..no matter how poorly they perform..

even if Nawaz Sharif goes(IF) which I doubt.....you know who will most probably the next Prme Mnister? don't think that it wil be anyone like Ch. Nisar or anyone with a clean reputation. it will most probably be our very own Ishaq Dar. just like Raja Parvez Ashraf came after Gilani.. this my friend,is the unfortunate reality.. here no powerful is punished excpt maybe Bhutto..

this is exacly the reason, I want atleast SOME punishment for this breach of national security .. all power echelons in Pakistan have accepted corruption as the norm, .but don't atleast endorse treason as the norm. let there be atleast some punishment for culprits involved in this dawn scandal.

I soo want myself to be proven wrong and you to be right..but facts suggest otherwise.. unless and until, there is complete overhaul of this democracy, nothng will change. There should be a civilian technocratc system for few years where there is ruthless acontablity, for say, 5 years and then there should be elections..then system can work…otherwise no hope for Pakistan…but this wl require support from army but army seems to be happy with present status quo... in the present system, no mater elections are done how many times, wiht same politicians...thngs wil go from bad to worse

I agree that there should be technocrats gov for a good few years that fixes all the things required for a long term system tailor made for Pakistan.

Once Nawaz is out of the PM seat, he will be vulnerable. That's the objective and that's exactly why he wont step down. If Ishaq Dar or anyone would've been able to protect him, he would have stepped down for thr inquiry.

next PM fight will break up PMLN or cause irreparable damage as Nisar will go after most cabinet ministers if he's selected. Ishaq can't be PM anyways, he's not an MNA and neither can be Shahbaz. Minus Nawaz, it'll start to crumble.

It's amazing that the 3 old parties are all collapsing. As for PPP in Sindh, that's not a sure shot. The provinces will be just that by name and all will be split in to smaller administrative parts. I don't foresee provincial assemblies in our future.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

@bold. very sad. esp considering the multiple number of times, he committed treason.. kargil, the plane hjacking and now this recent breach of national security. he is a proven traitor. .what more serious breach of national security.. when at times of tensoin with india, he feeds false info to media. .and who knows what else has he already leaked to enemy agencies? infact every time, there is a coflct with india, his role has been dubious and treacherous..yet army has a soft corner for him

Indeed. Perhaps its a guilt of projecting this moron and pampering him all the way. Its hard to destroy what you build and invested so much on. Even Noah was pleading to Allah to save his son only to see him drown, knowing fully that his son was a non believer. I hope we dont reach that stage that divine intervention have to do the justice. It will be a failure of us as a nation where we cant take right, timely and moral decisions to take us forward.

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

noora and company wouldn't hang one of their own . and jahil pendu patwariss keep defending them.

 

[PakSword]

Imagine....what if similar thing happened in india.... What if tomorrow, in event of any war with india, someone from PM house after NSC meeting, leaks tht Pak has decided to use nuclear weapons, against India...then can u understand the inplications? No matter how much denials come...what if India retalitaes in response to such news? How is such a thing....not national security threat?

First of all, we need to understand that it was not a leak. A discussion topic is leaked only when there was something discussed on that topic, otherwise it's called a lie, which is fed to a newspaper or a media outlet.

The way we are discussing this incident with our liar neighbours is like we are accepting the fact that there was some truth behind it. This is exactly what our enemy wants, and sadly it is well supported by our shameless government.

Secondly, Army can't take any action themselves this time around on this particular issue. I am telling you this because I have some information. When this item was discussed in CC meeting, they thought about all the scenarios and outcomes. Imagine if PA arrests some senior leaders (including some of the family members of Nawaz), how will government retaliate? One of the outcome that PA feared was that Nawaz may resign and may start an internal as well as a worldwide campaign against PA. All he has to do is to convince the world powers that PA has taken revenge because he wanted to take action against supposed terrorists who are supported by PA. Unfortunately, our government is this much shameless.


Wait for some weeks if not days... PA will teach a good lesson to the government but the event will not be even remotely connected to DAWN's fake news issue. Showing restraint now is the need of time and current affairs.

 

[Khalidr]

If army takes an action against these PMLN culprits, they will be remembered as political martyrs and as you know our Pakistani population is very emotional and support for these goons will remain there. But one can easily see that PMLN is on verge of collapse due to their false mountain tall claims. PPP is in disarray, MQM is long gone and is story of past, new political forces are in full swing. so it will be better if corrupts and traitors are tried in civil courts rather than in military to avoid being called political martyrs, soon the time will come and InsAllah this menace of Pakistan society will be behind bars.

 

[Farah Sohail]

I agree that there should be technocrats gov for a good few years that fixes all the things required for a long term system tailor made for Pakistan.

Once Nawaz is out of the PM seat, he will be vulnerable. That's the objective and that's exactly why he wont step down. If Ishaq Dar or anyone would've been able to protect him, he would have stepped down for thr inquiry.

next PM fight will break up PMLN or cause irreparable damage as Nisar will go after most cabinet ministers if he's selected. Ishaq can't be PM anyways, he's not an MNA and neither can be Shahbaz. Minus Nawaz, it'll start to crumble.

It's amazing that the 3 old parties are all collapsing. As for PPP in Sindh, that's not a sure shot. The provinces will be just that by name and all will be split in to smaller administrative parts. I don't foresee provincial assemblies in our future.

lets see.... I hope you are right..about nawz being forced to step down...but I have little faith in the current system.. I don't see tht happeing..althogh I sincerely hope you are right now.

what I desperately want to happen is some sort of pnshment for culprits in dawn case.. we have accepted corruption as the norm but atleast..dnt make treason the norm where people can get away with it. every time.. first memogate andnow ths dawn scanal... reaction of army leadership is more muted.now compared to memo gate .. ths tme.its just a pres release till nw.. don't know what will happen next... hopefuly, Nawaz wl be forced to resign. but if tht doesn't happen. I just am afraid.tht treason will be the new norm for Pakistan

 

[Farah Sohail]

Secondly, Army can't take any action themselves this time around on this particular issue. I am telling you this because I have some information. When this item was discussed in CC meeting, they thought about all the scenarios and outcomes. Imagine if PA arrests some senior leaders (including some of the family members of Nawaz), how will government retaliate? One of the outcome that PA feared was that Nawaz may resign and may start an internal as well as a worldwide campaign against PA. All he has to do is to convince the world powers that PA has taken revenge because he wanted to take action against supposed terrorists who are supported by PA. Unfortunately, our government is this much shameless.

Wait for some weeks if not days... PA will teach a good lesson to the government but the event will not be even remotely connected to DAWN's fake news issue. Showing restraint now is the need of time and current affairs.

@bold... We heard similar excuses...after geo ISI controversy... When there was just 15 days ban...ppl said tht its too lenient a punishment , for the damage they did....we heard excuses tht oh..this is not the right time to react... International powers will say...tht army is suppressing media freedom... Similar happened to memo gate...tht we will strike at a time and place pf our choosing...this is not the right time to react... Whats the result? The result..is tht....the fact tht politicians got away with memo gate, geo got away with tht controversy...has emboldened politicians to do more serious breaches of national security, time and again... This dawn feed is much more serious than memo gate..because someone from the PM house, deliberately lied after a sensitive meeting...of they get way with this...which has happened actually and this breach is forgotten....now..i am fearing..what will they do next time?

When we dont want to take any action...we conveniently....give the excuse..tht this is not the right time to react...and we will react in another way... This is what has happened in geo controversy, in memo gate... If culprits in both cases had been punished...today..dawn might have not published tht article, and someone from PM. House must not have had dared to deliberately feed false info....after NSC meeting.. So lets get ready for next time..and wait till they come up with a more sinister plan to damage army... Earlier with geo controversy, they targeted Gen .zaheer ul Islam as a person, now govt has maligned whole instituition of army....ok....good luck..for next time...

Also, if they had decided in Corps comm meeting tht they cant do anything in their own, and they knew govt will not do anything since they are themselves involved..why did they choose to go public regarding feeding of information, and caaling it a national security breach? Why make a mockery of everything and national security? Wuld have been better if they stayed silent, when they knew their limitations... Now the fact tht they called it national security breach, and then got silent.....why did they make an issue,in the first place? They should have ignored, when the first denial came from the govt......but no...even after realising their limitations..in CC conference, as u say....they made a statement regd feeding of info and national security breach.......did they not know tht after their public statement..people will ask for results? and nowwhen people demand action...they pretend as if nothing happened..everything is forgotten just like memo gate and give the excuse tht right now is not the time.. We will teach a lesson when the time comes... But tht time hasnt still come for memo gate.... This is what i am saying.. After a month, new chief will come, and everything will be forgotten as usual...like memo gate...and it will be matti pao.....

 

[HAIDER]

What do u guys think.....Has there been another mukmuka / NRO between government and military leadership, this time too? When army chief and Corps Commanders termed it as "feeding" and breach of national security, why dont u think..has there been any action yet by military? Its more than clear..tht government ministers and PM house is involved in this scandal, and they themselves fed this news..so obv they are not going to take action against themselves.....also, when i talk abt action against the "source" by the military...i dont mean martial law...but in many programs..this has been discussed...tht Arny/intelligence agencies can arrest the culprits involved in this scandal, under Army act for violating official secrets act..by themselves..even without asking from the government... So why is General Raheel Sharif not arresting those culprits, under army act...when its obv..tht government wont arrest its own ministers and officials? Will it be another matti pao, between army and govt? And another NRO? Will army let culpritswho breached national security, go scott free just because they afe from the ruling party? I mean..even Gen Kayani, who is often termed as weak and indecisive, got resignation og Hussain Haqqani....then its a much more serious breach of national security ..so why has Gen Raheel Sharif not taken any action against the culprits ..sitting in PM house and federal ministers & not arrested them yet? Why? What could be the reason, other than just matti pao and NRO? Any thoughts?

It's all because govt handle the situation in wrong way. All due to unclear foreign policy, need a experience foreign minister.

 

[Farah Sohail]

If army takes an action against these PMLN culprits, they will be remembered as political martyrs and as you know our Pakistani population is very emotional and support for these goons will remain there. But one can easily see that PMLN is on verge of collapse due to their false mountain tall claims. PPP is in disarray, MQM is long gone and is story of past, new political forces are in full swing. so it will be better if corrupts and traitors are tried in civil courts rather than in military to avoid being called political martyrs, soon the time will come and InsAllah this menace of Pakistan society will be behind bars.

@bold... Good luck with tht..... By the time, tht time comes...more than half of Pakistan's population will have already become martyrs.... If the current system continues....since even elections are not fair.these same people will keep coming in power... What you are saying..doesnt seem possible in the next 10 yrs..under the current system... Good luck till then..

Is asking for punishing the traitors...such a big issue..tht heaven will fall...if somehow members from ruling party are punished for treason? Even Saudi monarchy is much better than our so called democracy where they executed member form the ruling family... Does this mean..tht now anyone from the ruling elites has a license to breach national security..as and when they choose....and defenders of Pakistan..will keep on waiting..till they deem it appropriate to punish the traitors? And tht time..can be many years long..since tht time for memo gate..even after 4 long years hasnt come...

 

[Gentle Typhoon]

What is mukmuka?

It's a Punjabi phrase.

Hindi/Urdu - Baat khatam karo

Punjabi - Gall Muqao

Eg. We say 'Tel Muqq gyaa' (Oil has finished/No more oil in bike tank).

Mukmuka means to compromise, and reach a conclusion and not to hold it against each other. Done and dusted. Similar to Rfaa-dfaa.

My above post was after 3 years hiatus.

 

[Jzaib]

Army have no authority to take action against culprit . PM was himself involved. No action will be take but next army chief will be careful talking to them

 

[PakSword]

@bold... We heard similar excuses...after geo ISI controversy... When there was just 15 days ban...ppl said tht its too lenient a punishment , for the damage they did....we heard excuses tht oh..this is not the right time to react... International powers will say...tht army is suppressing media freedom... Similar happened to memo gate...tht we will strike at a time and place pf our choosing...this is not the right time to react... Whats the result? The result..is tht....the fact tht politicians got away with memo gate, geo got away with tht controversy...has emboldened politicians to do more serious breaches of national security, time and again... This dawn feed is much more serious than memo gate..because someone from the PM house, deliberately lied after a sensitive meeting...of they get way with this...which has happened actually and this breach is forgotten....now..i am fearing..what will they do next time,

I can understand your anger and disappointment. Sometimes you don't have an option other than patience.

Do you know how much Geo paid towards lost business and people's interest in this channel? PA reacted in a manner that seemed to us as 'no action'. Behind the curtains, billions of rupees were being lost and Mir Shakeel was asking mercy. I think that was enough humiliation of a channel.

People who remain calm in situations of anger take the best decisions. This is what our corps comm. are doing. If they take action now, it would make Nawaz's case strong and he will become innocent. He will gain immense support inside and outside of the country. Do we need this? No..

With pressure from all sides on government, Nawaz wants an exit that gives him an easy reentry. PA will rather not take direct action on this than doing something foolish that will fortify PMLN's position in next elections.

If it was 1977, PA might have hanged NS as Pakistan was not that much indulged in internal and external problems. Now, PA just can't do it. Even if they overthrow the government, they will not be able to stop NS from taking part in next elections and winning them with high margin, let alone hang him.

Let me ask you a question, if NS is disqualified by SC (or something similar), wouldn't that be a better revenge?

 

[Farah Sohail]

I can understand your anger and disappointment. Sometimes you don't have an option other than patience.

Do you know how much Geo paid towards lost business and people's interest in this channel? PA reacted in a manner that seemed to us as 'no action'. Behind the curtains, billions of rupees were being lost and Mir Shakeel was asking mercy. I think that was enough humiliation of a channel.

People who remain calm in situations of anger take the best decisions. This is what our corps comm. are doing. If they take action now, it would make Nawaz's case strong and he will become innocent. He will gain immense support inside and outside of the country. Do we need this? No..

With pressure from all sides on government, Nawaz wants an exit that gives him an easy reentry. PA will rather not take direct action on this than doing something foolish that will fortify PMLN's position in next elections.

If it was 1977, PA might have hanged NS as Pakistan was not that much indulged in internal and external problems. Now, PA just can't do it. Even if they overthrow the government, they will not be able to stop NS from taking part in next elections and winning them with high margin, let alone hang him.

Let me ask you a question, if NS is disqualified by SC (or something similar), wouldn't that be a better revenge?

Do u really think SC will disqualify Nawaz? not happening... And dont give example of Yousuf Raza Gilani... Remember tht after Gilani, was ousted, he was replaced by Raja Parvez Ashraf...the man who was called .raja Rental because of his involvement in IPPs.......so even .if nawaz is ousted by Sc, which is highly unlikely then ..even a more corrupt person wil replace him..

Tell me...what justice was served in memo gate?army showed restraint at tht time...but now Haqqani is in USA lobbying against Pakistan...Zardari and PPP were not disqualifued....no punishment or justice was served to them... So what time, was Army waiting for? Still tht time for memo gate hasnt come... Isnt memo gate forgotten by all? Does anyone remember memo gate and its culprits?

Trust me... SC will keep on giving dates after dates, and most probably will come up with decision after previous dharna on dhandli..meaning nothing noteworthy...govt will buy time.. Gen Raheel Sharif will retire, after a month and new chief will come..and then.........everything forgotten... And IF by any chance, Nawaz is ousted...then someone like Raja Rental in PML N will replace...

I think Pak system needs a complete overhaul...not martial law...but a civilian technocratic setup for few yrs, ruthless accountability, and then afterwards elections.... Otherwise, if without any overhaul of system, no matter how many elections take place, same people will keep coming in power again and again... Firts we need some kind of accountability, not through martial law..but a civilian technocratc setup is the best choice..and then later we can have elections... But IS army ready to support such change? For civilian technocratic setup to come, it will need armys support..but seems army is happy with current status quo

 

[PakSword]

Do u really think SC will disqualify Nawaz? not happening... And dont give example of Yousuf Raza Gilani... Remember tht after Gilani, was ousted, he was replaced by Raja Parvez Ashraf...the man who was called .raja Rental because of his involvement in IPPs.......so even .if nawaz is ousted by Sc, which is highly unlikely then ..even a more corrupt person wil replace him..

Tell me...what justice was served in memo gate?army showed restraint at tht time...but now Haqqani is in USA lobbying against Pakistan...Zardari and PPP were not disqualifued....no punishment or justice was served to them... So what time, was Army waiting for? Still tht time for memo gate hasnt come... Isnt memo gate forgotten by all? Does anyone remember memo gate and its culprits?

Trust me... SC will keep on giving dates after dates, and most probably will come up with decision after previous dharna on dhandli..meaning nothing noteworthy...govt will buy time.. Gen Raheel Sharif will retire, after a month and new chief will come..and then.........everything forgotten... And IF by any chance, Nawaz is ousted...then someone like Raja Rental in PML N will replace...

Memo gate was a different issue. A foreign national was involved and there was nothing much we could do. Anyway, I am not going into the detail of that story.

I would have thought the same about SC if PMLN hadn't fed a fake story. Our SC is the most coward institution. However good side of this cowardice is that its arms can be twisted by a more powerful force (which has been twisted a little this week). SC has already started and PMLN knows that they should expect the response from a direction that is not even in their wildest imaginations. SC is one of the example that could be used against government. There are other options available. Allah has also synced the timing of IK's protest with Army's response.

Anyway, just leave aside the response for a moment. What's your opinion PA should do?

 

[Farah Sohail]

Memo gate was a different issue. A foreign national was involved and there was nothing much we could do. Anyway, I am not going into the detail of that story.

I would have thought the same about SC if PMLN hadn't fed a fake story. Our SC is the most coward institution. However good side of this cowardice is that its arms can be twisted by a more powerful force (which has been twisted a little this week). SC has already started and PMLN knows that they should expect the response from a direction that is not even in their wildest imaginations. SC is one of the example that could be used against government. There are other options available. Allah has also synced the timing of IK's protest with Army's response.

Anyway, just leave aside the response for a moment. What's your opinion PA should do?

Which foreign national was involved in memo gate? mansoor Ijaz did record his statements in judicial commission..and then the culprits were hussain haqqani and PPP leadership... hussain Haqqani was allowed to leave, was not arrestd, even after judicial comission said tht memo gate was a reality...so army could do everything against haqqani...he had come to Pak...and was later allowed to leave, and now he is lobbying against Pak....and not to forget, role of Zardari, in memo gate..jusst like PM and his daughter is involved in dawn scandal...anyways ...leave tht...

Regd dawn case... I think Army for now, should arrest federal minister and bureaucrats involved..leave PMs daughter...ofcourse u cant arrest PM or his daughter.. But arrest the minister and bureaucrats, under Army act and official secrets act.by ISI...and then...make Gen Asim Bajwa do a press conference, tht with mutual consultation with govt, as was previously decided..we have arrested the culprits, in dawn case...with the consent of government... Play trick here, and give Nawaz Sharif, the false credit tht it is with his approval, tht we have done...as Govt had announced earlier after meeting with COAS, culprits will be punished... So play to tht... In this way, a message will be given to Nawaz Sharif, tht donot cross the red line again..otherwise next time, you can also be arrested... And in this way, Nawaz Sharif will be in a fix, how to react publicly, since, army would have given him credit... Atleast something needs to be done... Even a symbolic punishment..but if they are let off the hook, this time too..then God help Pakistan.. Treason, like corruption will become the norm too in Pak....and no one will be afraid of treason..just like everyone does corruption without fear..anyway..thts just my opinion...

Regd Sc...aah...lets see...but i dont have much faith in them, still..hopefully, i am wrong...

What other options, other than SC can be available? What do u think?