Why liberalism is actually the biggest threat which Pakistan faces apart from insurgencies

[TheSolution]

Can we define what liberalism is?

Jinnah as per my definition was a liberalist. Some of his speeches (Pakistan will not be a theocratic state or you may be of any religion, that is no business of the State).

Remember the ancestors of JUI leaders (Jamate Ulama e Hind of Deobandi sect) were against the idea of Pakistan. They even issued a fatwa for anyone who became a member or vote for the Muslim league.

Just putting it out there.

A liberalist and secularist aren't the same, you can have an Islamically conservative society as a secular nation. Doesn't make you liberal.

 

[VCheng]

The average layman has no say in Pakistan it's always the Rich woke Libarandus who control everything just take a look at your education system and you will see all the faults and who has imposed them.

Our society is tribal rich with culture and heritage it should stay that way and embrace proper education the one that will benefit you not destroy your life fabric.

That may be correct, but it is up to the active participants within a society to determine their own direction. If a majority decides to be tribal and honor their heritage and not give them up, then they should have that. If they want sharia, they should have that.

 

[TheSolution]

@Great Janjua @AlKardai There are being active efforts made to push liberalism into Pakistani society (the entire world really), through the use of soft power, like movies and social media which is very powerful. (Watch Netanyahu's speech for his possible plan against Iran) and using political leverage such as NGOs.

Like someone else mentioned, the US spent more money this year funding "gender-equality" NGOs, than the amount they gave to flood victims that were physically in crisis

And our institutions have probably been purposefully made useless by spreading corruption and nepotism to keep them weak

 

[Great Janjua]

That may be correct, but it is up to the active participants within a society to determine their own direction. If a majority decides to be tribal and honor their heritage and not give them up, then they should have that. If they want sharia, they should have that.

How can the majority have a say when the country is literally controlled by rich Libarandus your society is cucked the minute you know most students who leave this country end up studying "gender studies" and come back to "Enlighten" the very poor countrymen with a stern hand, imposition is the main basis for this idea I know many who have fell prey.

@Great Janjua @AlKardai There are being active efforts made to push liberalism into Pakistani society (the entire world really), through the use of soft power, like movies and social media which is very powerful. (Watch Netanyahu's speech for his possible plan against Iran) and using political leverage such as NGOs.

Like someone else mentioned, the US spent more money this year funding "gender-equality" NGOs, than the amount they gave to flood victims that were physically in crisis

And our institutions have probably been purposefully made useless by spreading corruption and nepotism to keep them weak

It's easier for a Pak student to get a study visa through gender studies than it is for other let's say aeronautical engineering. I know of countless NGOs in Lahore and Karachi who have weekly seminars and they promote this shet.

 

[TheSolution]

It's easier for a Pak student to get a study visa through gender studies than it is for other let's say aeronautical engineering. I know of countless NGOs in Lahore and Karachi who have weekly seminars and they promote this shet.

Target the developed population and economic centres of Pakistan and essentially let a trickle down effect happen is what they're doing.

They are exporting their degeneracy all over the world

Where tf is TTP when you actually need it.....

Mfs attack innocent men but people propogating queer shit funded by Amreka is off-limits.

 

[VCheng]

How can the majority have a say when the country is literally controlled by rich Libarandus your society is cucked the minute you know most students who leave this country end up studying "gender studies" and come back to "Enlighten" the very poor countrymen with a stern hand, imposition is the main basis for this idea I know many who have fell prey.

Only if the majority is not bothered about what is happening, others will do what you describe. Hence, they must be comfortable with what is happening.

 

[El Sidd]

The way Pakistani society deals with its fringe elements is mind boggling to say the least. How mere a percentile can govern philosophical debates over identity and state fundamentals speak volumes of utter misplaced priorities plaguing each and everyone of us.

Why liberalism is actually the biggest threat Pakistan faces apart from insurgencies...

(liberals please read and give your opinions down below!)

Many may think that I am an Islamist of sorts, and assume I am writing this thread for fearmongering purposes, but hear me out

To understand why the above statement is true, we must look at the founding ideology of Pakistan, and the basis of its formation:

Two-nation theory is the founding ideology which paved the way for the establishment of Pakistan. In basic terms, it proposed that subcontinent India cannot be considered a single nation but rather two nations – the Muslims and the Hindus. This is due to the polar opposite values, way of life, and ideal societies which both religious groups demanded.

Where Muslims wanted to create a society allowing to prioritise their Islamic values such as modesty, celibacy, condemnation of queer ideology, promotion of the nuclear family structure, etc and were strictly against the idol worshipping of the Hindus. On the other hand, the Hindus wanted to create a polar opposite society which was largely individualistic and open - where they societally normalise premarital companionship, sexual liberation, queer ideology, propagate extreme narratives of feminism as seen today.

India - A copy of western culture with Hindu aesthetic and Indian local cultural touch.

Pakistan - Islamic influenced society with local cultural touch.

The first esssentially encompassing the values of modern day liberalism and standing against everything which the Muslims wanted to be discouraged from society as it goes against their Islamic principles.

This brings me back to my original point – if liberalism continues to spread in mass throughout society till the majority see such concepts of queer ideology, sexual liberation, radical feminism, individuality, anti-celibacy, anti-modesty, anti-nuclear family structure, as acceptable and something that should be normalised, then it negates the very foundation of Pakistan and the two-nation theory. It blurs the societal line which divided Pakistan and India, it removes the purpose of divisions when both societies seek to largely be shaped in the same way.

Some may use ethnicity as an argument to say only a minority of Indian Panjabis have a common ethnicity with Pakistan, hence that is valid enough - but you must remember India itself is incredibly diverse of many ethnicties and states, where many share cultural proximity regardless. Hence the line between India and Pakistan then becomes non-existent and serves no real purpose but rather hinders their overall national power.

There is no difference between Indian society and in the clip seen below:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616835716113395713

If this is normalised in society - what really is the conflict with India for, what really is the purpose of forming Pakistan when you want the same thing? What's the difference?

Which brings me to the conclusion that widespread liberalism defeats the purpose of Pakistan.

And it actually promotes ethno-nationalism due to state ideology and national identity/conscious becoming weak – whereas the Indians have a centralised national identity based on cultural proximity as well as historical events!

This is something Pakistan has barely touched upon only briefly using M.A Jinnah and Allama Iqbal but hasn’t fostered a strong powerful centralised independent identity.

Which begs the question - what kind of society or civilisation is Pakistan trying to be? Is it just trying to be another India, which defeats it's purpose, or an actual Islamically influenced civilisation as its founder set it out to be?

@Sayfullah @_NOBODY_ @Rusty2 @epebble @Menace2Society @villageidiot

Objectifying women is neither a liberal nor a conservative trait.

The two nation theory did not stem from conservative thought but from progressive liberal thought of self determination. The basic rights of a politically aware human.

The overarching ability of the Pakistani society to tolerate and to moderate is a self governing phenomenon.

 

[hussain0216]

Seeing what is happening with the world

We are incredibly lucky WE HAVE ISLAM

Don't let the Kaffir or Murtads and liberals tell you different


Unlike other worthless faiths and ideologies like hinduism, Islam does not bend IT IS A CONSTANT THROUGHOUT TIME AND SOCIETY, regardless of what happens


To the stupid it could see restricting
They can ask why can't we screw around
Why shouldn't we dress like whores and act like whores
Why can't we have many partners and then settle down when we hit 35

Islam gives you a blueprint for life to ensure that we stand against this societal debauchery

We are so incredibly lucky that we have Islam and we need to ensure we defend it against attack, we never bend it, because it is the only thing left anywhere in the world currently that is going against this one world culture being forced everywhere

 

[TheSolution]

Seeing what is happening with the world

We are incredibly lucky WE HAVE ISLAM

Don't let the Kaffir or Murtads and liberals tell you different


Unlike other worthless faiths and ideologies like hinduism, Islam does not bend IT IS A CONSTANT THROUGHOUT TIME AND SOCIETY, regardless of what happens


To the stupid it could see restricting
They can ask why can't we screw around
Why shouldn't we dress like whores and act like whores
Why can't we have many partners and then settle down when we hit 35

Islam gives you a blueprint for life to ensure that we stand against this societal debauchery

We are so incredibly lucky that we have Islam and we need to ensure we defend it against attack, we never bend it, because it is the only thing left anywhere in the world currently that is going against this one world culture being forced everywhere

Opinions on Sharia Law in Pakistan?

 

[Great Janjua]

Only if the majority is not bothered about what is happening, others will do what you describe. Hence, they must be comfortable with what is happening.

Majority is not comfortable they are bounded by ghurbat and imposition of these libus who are in circulation of power. If it does not stop I won't be surprised if a uprising occurs and these libus get hung like clowns.

Empires fall when degeneracy is at peak. It's been happening since beginning of time as they say time heals all wounds.

 

[VCheng]

Majority is not comfortable they are bounded by ghurbat and imposition of these libus who are in circulation of power. If it does not stop I won't be surprised if a uprising occurs and these libus get hung like clowns.

Empires fall when degeneracy is at peak. It's been happening since beginning of time as they say time heals all wounds.

Such fears and calls for uprising and revolution have been thrown around a lot for months now on PDF. The relative calm being displayed by the people tends to suggest otherwise. That is about all I can observe in this matter thus far. May be it will change.

 

[TheSolution]

Majority is not comfortable they are bounded by ghurbat and imposition of these libus who are in circulation of power. If it does not stop I won't be surprised if a uprising occurs and these libus get hung like clowns.

Empires fall when degeneracy is at peak. It's been happening since beginning of time as they say time heals all wounds.

Ngl I feel like this elite capture is going to be the end of us, even if an uprising occurs it's so unstable everyone might... part ways you know, if it were to be successful

I would hope they'd willingly out of humiliation do the right thing but I really feel only force is the way to win here

Best solution is an internal coup by a group of nationalists

Plus these bastards are so corrupt for some money they'd probably dismantle Pakistan for Amreka...

 

[Erieye]

tbh I don't think this needs to be said but yes anything that undermines Islamic values and normalises things it is strictly against is a threat to our foundation and cause of instability

And if that society it tries to create matches up with indian society then you're correct - it leaves no difference between the two countries negating the two nation theory and whole point of pakistan. liberalism does this.

identical society to india, cultural proximity, subcontinent history - of course it will essentially blur the lines.

 

[Erieye]

I'd also like to add the real problem here is that people don't actually want this, it's being forced on majority of people - this liberal woke agenda of degeneracy. But specific campaigns are done to brainwash people

 

[El Sidd]

identical society to india, cultural proximity, subcontinent history - of course it will essentially blur the lines.

so will extreme obsession to identify as not Indian.