Why Kalam Represents India, And Aurangzeb Does Not

[Armstrong]

Amyyy badii burii halat hai aaj kal.
Sach!!!

Kiyun bhai kiya hovaa ?

 

[anant_s]

Children, their education and well being were some of the closest subjects to Dr. Kalam's heart.
I just wonder if mid Day meal in schools can be named after him. It serves children without asking them their gender, caste or religion. probably the closest thing to the Idea of India that kalam sahab dreamt off.

 

[Levina]

Kiyun bhai kiya hovaa ?

I will post about it on ur profile.

Children, their education and well being were some of the closest subjects to Dr. Kalam's heart.
I just wonder if mid Day meal in schools is named after him. It serves children without asking them their gender, caste or religion. probably the closest thing to the Idea of India that kalam sahab dreamt off.
View attachment 253195

I read this somewhere that Dr. KALAM was closer to children than Nehru, so should we not be celebrating Children's day on Dr.Kalam's bday instead of Nov.14?

 

[anant_s]

I read this somewhere that Dr. KALAM was closer to children than Nehru, so should we not be celebrating Children's day on Dr.Kalam's bday instead of Nov.14?

If one asks youth who they would like to emulate in their lives, i don't think there is a genuine Indian Hero other than Dr. Kalam.

 

[I.R.A]

Billions across the world are doing just fine without Islam

So you think after Islam ALLAH decided "I am not going to feed the non believers"? "They will rot in slums and would beg for their food"? . If you look at it the answer itself is in there, its all about what happens after leaving this world not in this world, if it was then Prophets would have been emperors and kings (except few) not sheepherders. Islam is way to something some people don't believe in these days. Islam is not here to dominate the world and its inhabitants it is here to let them know what is awaiting, Prophet (PBUH) is referred to as blessing for all the worlds, then how can Islam be limited to this world and its creatures deciding their wealthy status and prosperity based on beliefs?

Further can someone today say it for sure that Islam permits him to judge others how good a Muslim he is and how bad another is? And if he does can he guarantee that ALLAH will have the same judgement announced (I beg ALLAH's pardon for saying all this).

so it is not a requisite, is it? The End of Times? Right. Eventually, not just yet.

Requisite, well not in this world for wealth and well being, no but what about hereafter can you say it with surety that it is not? When it has clearly been told to even believers that (it means something like this) "Your saying shahada is not enough and won't help you escape accountability and judgement of your actions".

End of times. Depends on what you believe, for me it is near may be, but before that there won't be any follower of Islam.

So does Islam really need individuals or individuals need Islam? Why judge Islam for actions of individuals?

 

[Parul]

#Aaptard MLA from Okhla has decided to name a road after 'Hindu Figure' to Aurangzeb Road. I hope this brings smile on Pseudo Seculars.

The MLA is preserving and is protector Islamic History. @haviZsultan

 

[Armstrong]

#Aaptard MLA from Okhla has decided to name a road after 'Hindu Figure' to Aurangzeb Road. I hope this brings smile on Pseudo Seculars.

The MLA is preserving and is protector Islamic History. @haviZsultan

Oi aiii Russian Sikhniii kithuuun aaiii ehhh ?

 

[Parul]

Oi aiii Russian Sikhniii kithuuun aaiii ehhh ?

Bas Din Kathi Jande Haan. Tusi Dasdo, Mulla Ji, ki haal chal?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Shows the power :thumbsup:

The Powerpuff girls. Did/do you watch cartoons Shammi?

not that their suffering has stopped

This is being addressed. We have identified the problem and there is consensus. Once our country because educated, it will vanish to a minimum. We are still around 75% literate as of now...

 

[niaz]

IMO this article about Aurangzeb & India deserves a read.

Aijaz Zaka Syed
Friday, September 04, 2015

Dubai eye

The writer is a Middle East based columnist.

Children break toys they get bored with. Adults invent more ingenuous ways of venting their ennui. Like the deranged people blowing up prized heritage in the Middle East. Can you undo the past with such actions though? If it were that simple, the world would be a different place.

Man can try his best to wreak vengeance on his own creation or that of his own kind. But he cannot always play God, even if he wants to. Only someone who has the power to proclaim ‘Kun’ (Be) has the power to undo it all. And He will, when the appointed hour arrives. He will also sit in judgement on all those playing the divine today.

By destroying the past and rewriting history according to their worldview, if some think they can change the present, they’ve got another thing coming. You cannot alter the past by demolishing a mosque or temple. Nor can you change the course of history by renaming streets or cities.

Hindutva rabble-rousers haven’t stopped cheering the renaming of Delhi’s Aurangzeb Road after APJ Abdul Kalam. It’s a no-brainer that while the Mughal emperor is despised for his ‘anti-Hindu’ policies and actions like the imposition of Jiziya and numerous wars he fought against various Hindu rulers, the humble fisherman’s son who went on to become the president of the republic is loved for building the successful Indian missile programme and scripting India’s leap into the elite nuclear club.

Some of them have been abusing poor Nehru, who is being held responsible for most of independent India’s woes, for naming the popular street in Lutyens’ Delhi after the Mughal emperor. But it wasn’t Nehru but the British who had named the leafy boulevard after Aurangzeb.

Indeed, as Prof Ravindran of Delhi’s School of Planning and Architecture suggests, Aurangzeb Road wasn’t named so in isolation. It’s part of a cluster of roads named after Mughal emperors, from Akbar to Shah Jahan.

The British had inherited power from the Mughals, who ruled the Subcontinent for nearly four centuries. They had understandably no love lost for their predecessors. We all know what happened to the last Mughal emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar and his progeny. After the 1857 War of independence, Zafar was banished to Burma where he died in ignominy. Before he left his beloved Delhi, the poet king was offered the heads of his slain sons on a platter as a parting gift.

The British were nearly wiped out when they first challenged the last Great Mughal, Aurangzeb, in what is known as the Child’s War. For the first and only time, the English were brought to their knees by an Indian or Asian ruler. Subsequently, when his ships Ganj-e-Sawai and Fateh Muhammed were looted by English pirate Henry Every, Aurangzeb forced Britain to conduct the first-ever international manhunt in history, resulting in many arrests and five executions.

Yet while laying the foundations of a new capital in New Delhi, the British couldn’t ignore the influence of the Mughal rule in shaping modern India. This is how the most iconic roads and landmarks of the British Indian capital got named after Mughal rulers, including Aurangzeb who nearly threw them out of India. All that must change now that India has decisively turned Right.

The sixth Mughal emperor is said to have seldom lost a battle. But in the new war of perceptions and distorted realities, he stands no chance. In any case, he has been so systemically vilified and demonised over the past century and more in official narrative and popular discourse that even a child would tell you he was no do-gooder. Most of us grew up believing he was a bigot and tormentor of Hindus because that’s what we were taught in textbooks.

It hardly matters if the accusations and slurs thrown repeatedly at the man who ruled India for more than 50 years and who united the Subcontinent, from Afghanistan to Bengal and from Kashmir down to the Indian ocean, stand independent, objective scrutiny.

Aurangzeb’s was the largest empire India ever saw. With 29.2 percent of the world’s population under its flag (175 million of 600 million in 1700 AD) it was one of the richest states the world ever saw, with a world GDP of 24.5 percent ($90.8 billion out of $371 billion in 1700).

Aurangzeb was of course no saint. He was as complex as his realm. He may have committed many excesses in the course of ruling a vast empire, including taking on his own brothers and father Shah Jahan, the architect of the iconic Taj Mahal, Delhi’s Jama Masjid and Red Fort.

Many of his actions such targeting Sikh gurus and the Bohra spiritual leader were unfortunate and indefensible. But then there are many such actions by many rulers of the yore that are unfortunate and indefensible. Apparently everything was fair to enforce order and perpetuate their reign. It’s therefore wrong to view their actions through a religious prism.

But was Aurangzeb indeed a villain and Hindu-hating bigot? He couldn’t have survived 50 years in power by targeting his own people, 90 percent of whom were Hindus. Doubtless, he fought long and pitched battles with Hindu chieftains. But then he also fought similar battles with Muslims. Who can forget his long siege of Golconda and wars with other Deccan sultanates?

He is famously accused of demolishing a part of Kashi Vishwanath temple at Varanasi. It’s seldom explained why. According to historian and former Orissa governor B N Pande, who spent a lifetime studying the Mughal history, an enraged emperor got a part of the temple razed when he learnt that the wife of a Hindu raja who was part of the emperor’s convoy was dishonoured in a temple cellar.

By the way, he also had a beautiful mosque in Deccan demolished apparently suspecting it to horde the sultan’s riches. Just as the Somnath temple was mined by Mahmud of Ghazi for its fabled wealth.

If Aurangzeb had been a Muslim fanatic, the Mughal army wouldn’t have been led by a Hindu commander-in-chief. Indeed. He had more Hindu commanders in his army than those under his great grandfather Akbar, known for his proximity to Hindus.

Responding to the accusations of bias against Aurangzeb, historian BN Banerjee writes: “No one should accuse Aurangzeb of being communal minded. In his administration, the state policy was formulated by Hindus. A number of non-Muslims including Hindus, Sikhs, Marathas and Jats, were employed by him in his court.”

Banerjee also rejects the oft-repeated charge of forced conversions of Hindus by Muslim rulers by arguing that if that were the case, there wouldn’t be nearly five times as many Hindus in India today as compared to Muslims despite the fact that Muslims ruled the country for nearly a thousand years.

As for the much reviled jiziya, there’s a simple explanation. If the state collected jiziya from non-Muslims, it also collected similar amount from Muslims in the form of 2.5 percent zakat. Indeed, Muslims paid more in the form of ushr to the state, 10 percent of their crop revenues.

All this of course wouldn’t make sense to those who are inseparable from their tinted blinkers. The renaming of Aurangzeb Road isn’t just unfair to someone who united India but it’s also an affront to Kalam who worked all his life to harmonise all faiths and people.

But the move has little to do with the saffron reverence for the missile man and more to do with the BJP’s cynical politics of expediency. From releasing religious census figures and sparking the scare about the multiplying Muslim ranks (Muslim rate of growth has actually slowed down in comparison to the 1980s and 1990s) to the renaming of a Delhi street, everything is nicely timed with the critical Bihar elections.

The supreme leader just cannot afford to lose to someone who so contemptuously dumped the BJP over its choice for the PM’s job.

Email: aijaz.syed@hotmail.com

Aurangzeb, Modi and Bihar - Aijaz Zaka Syed

 

[Manindra]

IMO this article about Aurangzeb & India deserves a read.
The British had inherited power from the Mughals, who ruled the Subcontinent for nearly four centuries. They had understandably no love lost for their predecessors. We all know what happened to the last Mughal emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar and his progeny. After the 1857 War of independence, Zafar was banished to Burma where he died in ignominy. Before he left his beloved Delhi, the poet king was offered the heads of his slain sons on a platter as a parting gift.

Yet people respect Akbar , Bahadur Shah Zafar but not Aurangzeb ? Because former two are not Muslim.

The sixth Mughal emperor is said to have seldom lost a battle. But in the new war of perceptions and distorted realities, he stands no chance. In any case, he has been so systemically vilified and demonised over the past century and more in official narrative and popular discourse that even a child would tell you he was no do-gooder. Most of us grew up believing he was a bigot and tormentor of Hindus because that’s what we were taught in textbooks.

Pakistani history books are world famous for telling truth but the problem is Aurangzeb doing is well recorded in Historic documents not simply school textbooks.

It hardly matters if the accusations and slurs thrown repeatedly at the man who ruled India for more than 50 years and who united the Subcontinent, from Afghanistan to Bengal and from Kashmir down to the Indian ocean, stand independent, objective scrutiny.

Ruling India for 50 years does not change his wrong doings into good.

Aurangzeb’s was the largest empire India ever saw. With 29.2 percent of the world’s population under its flag (175 million of 600 million in 1700 AD) it was one of the richest states the world ever saw, with a world GDP of 24.5 percent ($90.8 billion out of $371 billion in 1700).

Aurangzeb Empire into peak

Aurangzeb was of course no saint. He was as complex as his realm. He may have committed many excesses in the course of ruling a vast empire, including taking on his own brothers and father Shah Jahan, the architect of the iconic Taj Mahal, Delhi’s Jama Masjid and Red Fort.

Let me tell you a good thing about him. He lives very simple life & earn his living by sewing caps & wring Ayats of Quran.

Many of his actions such targeting Sikh gurus and the Bohra spiritual leader were unfortunate and indefensible.

Why he execute both ?
Does they opposed his rule if no then only answer is they are Kuffars, wajib - e qatal.

But then there are many such actions by many rulers of the yore that are unfortunate and indefensible. Apparently everything was fair to enforce order and perpetuate their reign. It’s therefore wrong to view their actions through a religious prism.

If someone does not oppose his rule then what is the point to execute them except different religious view ?

But was Aurangzeb indeed a villain and Hindu-hating bigot?

No, but he was Extremist Muslim who would crushed anyone whom religious view was differen. He didn't spare Shias also.

He couldn’t have survived 50 years in power by targeting his own people, 90 percent of whom were Hindus. Doubtless, he fought long and pitched battles with Hindu chieftains.

Their are tons of history about tiny minority ruled majority till long, recent one, Ottomans, Europeon colonizers, Apparthier era South Africa, Saddam Hussain era Iraq, Syria, Bahrain rtc.

But then he also fought similar battles with Muslims. Who can forget his long siege of Golconda and wars with other Deccan sultanates?

Because those rulers are evil Shias.

He is famously accused of demolishing a part of Kashi Vishwanath temple at Varanasi. It’s seldom explained why. According to historian and former Orissa governor B N Pande, who spent a lifetime studying the Mughal history, an enraged emperor got a part of the temple razed when he learnt that the wife of a Hindu raja who was part of the emperor’s convoy was dishonoured in a temple cellar.

Leftist are saying that he was staunch secular, Jizya are imposed due to weak financial condition.

By the way, he also had a beautiful mosque in Deccan demolished apparently suspecting it to horde the sultan’s riches. Just as the Somnath temple was mined by Mahmud of Ghazi for its fabled wealth.

Because that was Shia mosque like extremist are exploding in Pakistan.

If Aurangzeb had been a Muslim fanatic, the Mughal army wouldn’t have been led by a Hindu commander-in-chief. Indeed. He had more Hindu commanders in his army than those under his great grandfather Akbar, known for his proximity to Hindus.

A simple saying that in a time we have to make Doney a father. Those Hindu feudals are two powerful since long & mistreating them would effect his state stability. Just like Pakistan Old Hindu Rajwadas are powerful & influential but it does not make common Pakistani hindu a same right like majority muslims.

Responding to the accusations of bias against Aurangzeb, historian BN Banerjee writes: “No one should accuse Aurangzeb of being communal minded. In his administration, the state policy was formulated by Hindus. A number of non-Muslims including Hindus, Sikhs, Marathas and Jats, were employed by him in his court.”

All Banerji, Mukherji, Das say him secular, rest people deal with it.
But I already answered it in previous quote.

Banerjee also rejects the oft-repeated charge of forced conversions of Hindus by Muslim rulers by arguing that if that were the case, there wouldn’t be nearly five times as many Hindus in India today as compared to Muslims despite the fact that Muslims ruled the country for nearly a thousand years.

Because they have to pay Jaziya & live as second grade citizen for remaining hindu, sikh or other.

As for the much reviled jiziya, there’s a simple explanation. If the state collected jiziya from non-Muslims, it also collected similar amount from Muslims in the form of 2.5 percent zakat. Indeed, Muslims paid more in the form of ushr to the state, 10 percent of their crop revenues.

Then why Non muslims also have same tax instead of different Jizya ? Only loose argument to support Jiziya.
And non muslims crops other revenue are tax free ?

All this of course wouldn’t make sense to those who are inseparable from their tinted blinkers. The renaming of Aurangzeb Road isn’t just unfair to someone who united India but it’s also an affront to Kalam who worked all his life to harmonise all faiths and people.

And its first time India United
And the Faith & Harmony Akbar build are Destroyed by Aurangzeb later Mughals became Puppets of Maratha

But the move has little to do with the saffron reverence for the missile man and more to do with the BJP’s cynical politics of expediency.

This sentence I agree fully.

From releasing religious census figures and sparking the scare about the multiplying Muslim ranks (Muslim rate of growth has actually slowed down in comparison to the 1980s and 1990s) to the renaming of a Delhi street, everything is nicely timed with the critical Bihar elections.

So census report become confidential & groth is down due to previous very high growth now high growth.



Our luck is so bad that we never got true secular party.
Congress & their rest of buffon allies are Extremist muslim appease & BJP & their goons are extremist hindu appeaser.
Even communist are not atheist here in India.
We need leader like Kamal Ataturk to clean this mess.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

The only reason behind this renaming thing right now under Modi government is to establish Hindu identity of India and to give this clear message that embrace Hinduism or mixture of Hinduism/Islam like Mr kalam did and you will become hero or else you are traitor

I still cannot get in my head how naming some Road as Aurangzaib represent glorification of auranzaib especially when this name was given by British who had zero reason to glorify Auranzaib

 

[syedali73]

Some ignorant declared Aurengzeb as an extremist... well if he indeed was an extremist and not ready to accommodate people of other faiths, he had ample time to eradicate the forefathers of this ignorant and he was not talking crap on internet today. The proof is in the pudding as it is called. Muslim rulers had all the resources at hand to wipe out the last of the Hindu, for 700 years is along time to do that but they did not. That Hindus are still around and in large numbers is ample a proof that they are laying through teeth as usual.

 

[Mike_Brando]

Because kalam looks like Dalit even though he is not.

Have you ever observed yourself in front of a mirror!!You are perhaps the ugliest man i have ever seen in my life.Does that make you a Dalit as well!!

Using fancy words is not going to make you look any smarter. Just shows you are hiding your inferiority complex behind it and trying to be something you are not!

When you slaughter Muslims by the thousands, elect a PM who is a known terrorist, and then you have the audacity to say India is not anti-muslim!

DO carefully study each link in post#59 tells quite a lot about your "civility!" After that you can go guffawing or nawoffoing, it's not like anyone gives two hoots about it, Except your fellow trolls !!!

You didn't answer point by point, you Ranted, point by point.


1) Sati:
Indian women still commit ritual suicides — RT News

2) Yellow elixir:
Gomutra (Cow Urine) as a Spiritual Healing Remedy

3) Human-Animal marriage & Human-Tree marriage:
The argument that " you have seen in your life, and haven't," doesn't carry any weight!

View attachment 252885

Do visit the link for more details:
Indian girl marries a stray dog as part of bizarre tribal ritual to ward off evil spirit | Daily Mail Online

View attachment 252886
View attachment 252887
Film star faces lawsuit after 'marrying' a tree - Telegraph

4) Polyandry
The wife married to FIVE brothers: Rajo, 21, follows a tradition in Indian villages which allows families to hold on to their farmland | Daily Mail Online

5) Kabbala moksham - Breaking coconuts on a dying persons head
In reply to your comment about dead people, Here are people still alive breaking coconuts en-mass on their heads

Indian Priests Smash Coconuts on Devotees' Heads in Bizarre Good Luck Ritual | Oddity Central - Collecting Oddities

Hundreds take part in coconut breaking ritual at Mettumahadanapuram - TAMIL NADU - The Hindu

Priests Crack Coconuts on Devotees' Heads


6) Narabli - human / child sacrifice
SHOCKING: 'Nara bali' of 10-yr-old girl, grandmother slits throat, drinks blood, parents celebrate

7) Necrophagy
Incredible images show life of India's cannibal Aghori tribe | Daily Mail Online

8) Holiest city in India
Varanasi and the Circle of Life | NelsonCarvalheiro.com

9) More weird stuff from India

Women in India host frog wedding for rain invoking ritual | Daily Mail Online

Frogs married in India to break drought - NY Daily News

Villagers voluntarily allow cows to trample on them to bring them good luck (and it must work as nobody has ever been seriously hurt!) | Daily Mail Online

Karnataka: 25,000 people rolled over the "spit" of Brahmins : NATION - India Today

Even Goddesses are Kept Away from Temples During Their Menstrual Cycles in India | Work & Life | iDiva.com

So,is it okay if we ask some sensitive questions about Islam!!I hope you won't get offended at that time.
@Oscar sir, @Irfan Baloch sir this man is deliberately insulting my religion by stating some obnoxious facts.Please make him stop or otherwise it will soon start a mud slinging match regarding Hinduism and Islam in this thread

 

[Indus Falcon]

Dont mind, but Sir do you understand english???
Read my post again, it says "airline staff are not allowed to have tattoos so I guess the tattoo rule doesnt apply on me as I'm into corporate training". Now this sentence means that I am not an airline staff, I'm a corporate trainer. I'm a civil engg by profession and now I'm into corporate training( oil and gas company). @Shamain you seem to have a decent english could you pls help sir.
Now sir, if you want to know more about my profession, you can discuss it on my profile page rather than derailing my thread. I will not discuss off topics on my thread any more.

yes sire, I do use words like Dilettante, Alexithymia, mugwump etc very often. If you want i can help you with your vocab.

Sir, pagal ki toh pagal hi jaane...hum kya jaane?

Keep talking crap. Proving to the forum, that's the only thing you are good at !!