Why Kalam Represents India, And Aurangzeb Does Not

[Pakistanisage]

This is just off the top of my head, change all the British names too, Victoria memorial anyone.


We are polite, lazy and sprinkled with a legacy of institutional inaction throughout our history... this challta hai attitude is going be a big bamboo for our future generations.


Tyranny is Tyranny, irrespective if it was 20 years ago or 2000 years ago...

OKAY, then lets talk about TYRANNY in Present Day India under MOOZI....

 

[Indus Falcon]

We would but due to emerging of USA as sole super power English gained International status.

Then all would should stop our numbering system, decimal, zero, all our study in physics, chemistry, medicine, Yoga, Astronomy etc.


First we are not Islamist second these structures created by Indian wealth & destroying our old monuments.

How many country who are the colony of British operate such mammoth railway with efficiency.
We would dig but more than 95% of our current build.

Oh before that Indian didn't know about that ? ever heard of Charak, Chanakya, Panini, Nalanda & Taxila University Mr. Mullah ?
s
The first 2 you quoted are still barbarians

You are mistaking with Egyptian Pharaoh Mr. Mullah, in Hinduism even cousin marriage are not allowed which you Pakis produce like rat.

It was a bad thing which we Ban ourself without anyone involve (Don't give credit to British for the work of Raja Ram Mohan Rai, Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar)

Yet we abolished it & prosecute people for this without fear of Blasphemy, what about old & modern Islamic slaveries.

Now deed of priests become religious teachings but for your Information its a thing of Past but check your Madrasah, so much horny Mullahs on loose

Pakis are such bunch of killers who prosecute (by court) a illiterate & mental minority lady in charge of Blasphemy for burning Koran verses.

Pakis can't save their innocent child from the wrath of Hellfire missiles ( despite being nuclear state) but hell bent preaching others.

Only reading Koran does not give you current world updated knowledge.
Karachi’s Orangi beats Slumdog Millionaire’s Dharavi in Mumbai as Asia’s largest slum - Telegraph

We already working to end this & have gained significant results.


You should sue your parents for such low knowledge, this thing we abolished that when your Grand parents are not born.

I didn't know what is this ?

This is superstition which priest do to make money ( is not religious) but it does not mean the girl would be live forever with those animal or tree. Those priest making people fool that if they not do then their future spouse would die early or other bad thing happened. I never seen such thing in my life but seen in newspaper or news.
Recently many state government passed the law to ban this.

What are you saying ? In Hindu code bill you can never marry other one before you get divorce from previous one.
People who want to they convert to Islam to do this.

I am north Indian by ancestry & lived in Tamil Nadu (South India) but I never heard of this ritual.
Well if they do so, then what a problem ? Dead body would not complain of pain & last ultimately we have to burn it

Hinduism never propagate killing that's why most conservative Hindus are vegetarian ? Actually a traditionally Hindus offer Coconut not a animal forget a human. Its a criminal offence which cost you lifetime or death sentence.

You are sure a religion who barred animal killing for food allow this ?
These are a sect called 'Aghori' who are not more than 2000 do, & and rest people avoid them & they do not stay with common people.


Well most of your queries are outdated or criminal offence but what about following
1. Instant Divorce by males even on whatsapp
2. Females treated as sub humans even they have not right on father's property or instant divorce like facility which male have.
3.Male can marry with 4 females without consultation but females can't (everyone should have right to fun)

Deflect and talking crap won't change the fact what you guys are!

 

[Manindra]

Deflect and talking crap won't change the fact what you guys are!

I answered your question point by point & you

 

[VCheng]

Why Kalam represents India and Aurangzeb does not

And yet both will remain part of its history. You see, one cannot pick and choose with history. It is all an indivisible whole, the good, the bad and the ugly alike.

 

[Gibbs]

And yet both will remain part of its history. You see, one cannot pick and choose with history. It is all an indivisible whole, the good, the bad and the ugly alike.

Well said.. I dont understand how the same people would denounce whats going on in Palmyra by the ISIS and what happened in Bamiyan by the Taleban or what happened in Nalanda by the marauding moghuls but adamant that certain parts of their history be removed.. How does that work ? We cant pick and choose our history good or bad, What we can do is learn from it, Unfortunately this thread is all about the opposite

For the fanatical Islamist's point of view both Palmyra and Bamiyan did not represent them, Just like how for some here Aurangzeb does not represent them, So lets remove that part of the history.. Now i'm not a apologist for those Islamic inbreds destroying human history but is'nt both view points the same ?

Note : I'm not pointing the finger specifically at Indian ultra nationalists but all irrespective of thier nationality, Just that the thread is specific to Indians

 

[vsdoc]

And yet both will remain part of its history. You see, one cannot pick and choose with history. It is all an indivisible whole, the good, the bad and the ugly alike.

People pick and choose and rewrite and mutilate and manufacture history all the time.

History is only as credible as those who write and tell it. And closely related to those who read and listen to it.

Which is how invaders become ancestors. On a continental scale.

 

[Gibbs]

People pick and choose and rewrite and mutilate and manufacture history all the time.

History is only as credible as those who write and tell it.

Which is how invaders become ancestors. On a continental scale.

But it did happen, And is part of the history, Thats the point

 

[Manindra]

Well said.. I dont understand how the same people would denounce whats going on in Palmyra by the ISIS and what happened in Bamiyan by the Taleban or what happened in Nalanda by the marauding moghuls but adamant that certain parts of their history be removed.. How does that work ? We cant pick and choose our history good or bad, What we can do is learn from it, Unfortunately this thread is all about the opposite

For the fanatical Islamist's point of view both Palmyra and Bamiyan did not represent them, Just like how for some here Aurangzeb does not represent them, So lets remove that part of the history.. Now i'm not a apologist for those Islamic inbreds destroying human history but is'nt both view points the same ?

Renaming road does not mean Aurangzeb would be deleted from History books.
Would you liked to road named V. Prabhakaran in Sri Lanka ? But It does not mean Prabhakaran chapter would be closed from Sri Lankan History.
One Islamist PHD telling me that Afghan, Mughal & British civilize us.
Sri Lanka & India have very close history , could you told me how uncivilized we are before Islamic invaders ?

But it did happen, And is part of the history, Thats the point

That does not mean glorify oppressors to appease certain elements neither ISIS are noble souls & Iraq should name minimum 1 road on the name of Bagdadi.
If we change the name of Akbar road nobody object as he was not pure muslim (not destroyed temple , mass murder minorities or tax Jizya).

 

[vsdoc]

But it did happen, And is part of the history, Thats the point

Invaders becoming ancestors on a continental scale never happened.

Compare the populations of the civilizations the invaders came from to that of the Indian subcontinent. Arabia. Turkey. Persia. Including modern Afghanistan.

Then compare the size of the actual armies of foreign invaders, before the local populace swelled their ranks.

Then account for really massive quantities of post conquest rapine and concubinage. For the sake of catering to the logical extent of either extreme.

And you get your logical common sense inference on the impossibility of large swathes of the current populace having any bloodline of the invader.

The ancestry is of ideology and to a certain extent an amalgam of culture. Its the blood paradigm I find difficult to stomach, if not outright reject.

 

[Gibbs]

Renaming road does not mean Aurangzeb would be deleted from History books.
Would you liked to road named V. Prabhakaran in Sri Lanka ? But It does not mean Prabhakaran chapter would be closed from Sri Lankan History.
One Islamist PHD telling me that Afghan, Mughal & British civilize us.
Sri Lanka & India have very close history , could you told me how uncivilized we are before Islamic invaders ?

Nope.. But nobody would name a road for Prabakharan, If they did well one cannot do anything about it because he is definitely a art of the history, We cant deny that, thats the whole point, I dont think this debate has to be focused on a mere renaming of a road but on a whole movement of ultra nationalism often far removed from reality and history Not just in India but elsewhere as well

I really dont want to dragged in the the subject matter on civilizations.. Great Eastern civilizations of the sub continent and Eastern and South Eastern Asia far preceded Middle Eastern Islamic or European ones for millenia, So there are no questions about it.. I would'nt bother about such misconceptions

Invaders becoming ancestors on a continental scale never happened.

Compare the populations of the civilizations the invaders came from to that of the Indian subcontinent.

Then compare the size of the actual armies of foreign invaders, before the local populace swelled their ranks.

Then account for really massive quantities of post conquest rapine and concubinage. For the sake of catering to the logical extent of either extreme.

And you get your logical common sense inference on the impossibility of large swathes of the current populace having any bloodline of the invader.

The ancestry is of ideology and to a certain extent an amalgam of culture. Its the blood paradigm I find difficult to stomach, if not outright reject.

Numbers doesn't necessarily define history.. Sometimes it can be an individual but equally influential, Sometimes it can be a total outsider that did it.. But we cannot pick and choose who need to be and not in collective human history

 

[Manindra]

Nope.. But nobody would name a road for Prabakharan, If they did well one cannot do anything about it because he is definitely a art of the history, We cant deny that, thats the whole point, I dont think this debate has to be focused on a mere renaming of a road but on a whole movement of ultra nationalism often far removed from reality and history Not just in India but elsewhere as well

So, Sri Lankans would be OK with glorification of former LTTE chief to justify he is a part of history?

I really dont want to dragged in the the subject matter on civilizations.. Great Eastern civilizations of the sub continent and Eastern and South Eastern Asia far preceded Middle Eastern Islamic ones for millenia, So there are no questions about it.. I would'nt bother about such misconceptions

You are clever
You indirectly answer the question

 

[Gibbs]

So, Sri Lankans would be OK with glorification of former LTTE chief to justify he is a part of history?

No.. But if a section of the population does, Others dont have a say in it, Because he will be a very integral part of the countries history, even if we like it or not

You are clever
You indirectly answer the question

Well trying to counter such stupid theories would only derail the thread

 

[Levina]

@levina The only problem I have with Indian establishment is, it takes someone to die for getting their rightful place in Indian narrative. Why weren't these names changed when Kalam saab was alive, why did it take for us to do this after his death.

And why now, why wasn't Aurangazeb road or aurangabad renamed after Shivaji right after Independence. After all the concept of modern Secular India, absolutely lies in Purna Swaraj laid by Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj, the greatest possible hero, the best underdog story that unfolded in our history.

Renaming landmarks that bear the names of scums like Aurangazeb and Murshid Quli Khan (Murshidabad), Akbar's Alhabad (originally Prayag), should have changed either to thir original names or after gem of leaders like Mulana Azad, Patel, Gandhi, Bhagat singh, and Tilak etc, long long time ago...

Sandy,
Dr.APJ Abdul Kalam was a humble human being, he would have never approved of this.
I am of the opinion that if the road was renamed assuming this would erase Aurangzeb from our history then its wrong. Albeit I am glad that a road was named after Dr.Kalam.
I find it ironical that at times we name roads and other popular structures after tyrants like Aurangzeb. Back in kerala where Tipu Sultan carried out a carnage, a road is named after him. What can be more ironical than this???

Right, stop in conversing in English too, stop using all European invented amenities too; what about destroying Taj Mahal and other Mughal structures through which Bharat earns millions from the tourists? why not dig up the railway lines that British laid? Why not raze to ground the Schools and Hospitals that were erected by British? somebody? A Brothers inter-marrying sisters to protect 'rajwad'; women burnt alive together with deceased husbands; humans divided into horrible caste system and forced to lived under so-called high-caste and good for nothing priests; innocent girls forced to work as daasis in temples and 'serving' priests. Bharatis are a bunch of hypocrites irrespective of whether they are Hindutvawadi terrorists or so-called seculars. They cant provide toilets to their people but hell-bent on changing the name of roads. As if all other problems of Bharat are solved, world's largest slums are gone, female feticide is controlled, AIDS epidemic is all but wiped out, dowry -related burnings are stopped...

Are you bamboozled into believing that India is anti-muslim?
Have you wondered why did we not rename a road named after Akbar? or Shahjahan?
Just FYI- Tajmahal was built by Shahjahan.
Cogitate!!!

fghans, Mughals and British taught Bhartis how to live with civility otherwise what they were before?

Taught to live with civility???
Makes me go guffawing.
Let me tell you sire, that while the civilizations in Europe were still in their infancy, civilization in the subcontinent was at its zenith.

 

[vsdoc]

Numbers doesn't necessarily define history.. Sometimes it can be an individual but equally influential, Sometimes it can be a total outsider that did it.. But we cannot pick and choose who need to be and not in collective human history

In the ambit of the discussion, and the point of historical revisionism made, just because someone had historical impact (positive or negative) does not make him or her your ancestor.

The effect of the addition of the foreign blood into the larger Indian gene pool would be so negligible as to be nearly insignificant, genetically.

Especially when you consider that the actual pure blooded foreign invading waves were few and far in between, discrete epochal events, getting quickly diluted by local populace converts and strategic alliances.

And seen over close to 900 years (700 AD to 1600 AD) of genetic mingling.

Yet regardless of history, a large chunk of the population suddenly somehow becomes descended from the invading bloodlines. Not converts.

Such was my reference to my friend syed on the credibility and veracity of history "as it actually happened."

 

[Gibbs]

You are clever
You indirectly answer the question

But saying that it's not to say the many positive aspects contributed by other cultures for the improvement of our own.. Like i said there are good and bad in every part of our collective histories.. We learn from it but cant pick and choose what to keep