Why isn't there a Muslim 'EU'/NATO?

[Skull and Bones]

Without Bangladesh the Muslim NATO is bound to fail.

 

[langda khan]

The four biggest powers of the Muslim world are Pakistan, Turkiye, Saudi and Iran.

Indonesia has an excellent amount of economic depth, however

What about India? Is it not a tad convenient that Indian Muslims are only used to hit India with, but never given the respect and acceptance they should get from other Muslims as equal stakeholders? Can you have a Muslim NATO that excludes 200 million Muslims and in all probability would go to war against the same 200 million Muslims. Because let's face it, India will eventually go to war against Pakistan. And if there is a Muslim NATO and an Article 5 equivalent, then 56 Muslim nations would go to war against India in retaliation. An India where 200 million Muslims make their home, are born and live and die.

There was never anything called Akhand Bharat. It was India or Hindustan. Bharatis actually divided India and they are proud of it. They call it the Mahabharat war. So, Akhand Bharat is ideology, not real history and identity. I hate ideologies.

The Mahabharata, and the War of the Ten Kings before it, were a continuum of the violent schism between the Aryan people of Iran and India on the issue of who were their Gods and who the Demons. These were bound to happen when such fundamental rifts divide a great people. What existed after that was an uneasy truce and a racial and geographical handsoff policy. Today's Pakistan stands right in the middle of that. As do to a certain extent Afghanistan and Balochistan (both the Pakistani and Iranian parts). In any case, call it Akhand Bharat or whatever you will, but India is oncourse to reclaiming its cultural and economic dominance over it's old sphere of influence in this part of the world.

Indian Muslims don't have a state

In fact they have three. India, Pakistan and then Bangladesh. At close to 750 million, Indian Muslims make up nearly 40% of the world Muslim population. There is a Muslim name for India too which I think defines it as a non Islamic Muslim state. Zarb ul Harab I think.

 

[Indos]

In Arab-Israel war, Muslim countries are actually united, especially the oil producers (which include Indonesia). OPEC is basically the result of that. Many Muslim countries get rich as well due to OPEC and big country like Indonesia gets huge revenue from the oil during 1970's-1990 that help the nation economic development.

The same thing can also happen when India wants to invade Pakistan. Energy blockade will happen. Indian economy unlikely be able to prevent downfall if the energy blocade from Muslim countries happen. Many of Indian oil refinery is also owned by Adani Conglomerate who has huge influence in India politics. He will prevent any Indian invasion to Pakistan.

Muslim countries IMO is unlikely to help Pakistan if Pakistan is the one that is aggressive toward India.

This has already benefited Pakistan as we are speaking.

 

[khansaheeb]

Muslim countries love to harm each other...

The leaders divide by influence.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

What about India? Is it not a tad convenient that Indian Muslims are only used to hit India with, but never given the respect and acceptance they should get from other Muslims as equal stakeholders? Can you have a Muslim NATO that excludes 200 million Muslims and in all probability would go to war against the same 200 million Muslims. Because let's face it, India will eventually go to war against Pakistan. And if there is a Muslim NATO and an Article 5 equivalent, then 56 Muslim nations would go to war against India in retaliation. An India where 200 million Muslims make their home, are born and live and die.

There is OIC, Muslim World League, and Arab League. What good have they done. I would not want India to be part of 'Muslim NATO' if India was 100% Muslim. We respected the institution of Khilafat when it existed, however, we were never under it. Delhi Sultanate and Mughal Empire were based on Indian identity and history.

 

[langda khan]

In Arab-Israel war, Muslim countries are actually united, especially the oil producers (which include Indonesia). OPEC is basically the result of that. Many Muslim countries get rich as well due to OPEC and big country like Indonesia gets huge revenue from the oil during 1970's-1990 that help the nation economic development.

The same thing can also happen when India wants to invade Pakistan. Energy blockade will happen. Indian economy unlikely be able to prevent downfall if the energy blocade from Muslim countries happen. Many of Indian oil refinery is also owned by Adani Conglomerate who has huge influence in India politics. He will prevent any Indian invasion to Pakistan.

Muslim countries IMO is unlikely to help Pakistan if Pakistan is the one that is aggressive toward India.

This has already benefited Pakistan as we are speaking.

Muslim countries have the oil. But we hold the water. In the decades ahead it will become very clear who holds what of more significance. There is a crushing realisation among Indian intellectuals today as they see Pakistan tottering on the brink of disaster that we will eventually either be hit by human waves of refugees or a Pakistan that wants to come back formally into the fold, because of that one resource. And war being off the table simply because the balance is too lopsided already. The next 50 years our children will face this. Take this in writing as a written (cyber) prophecy since most of us here will be long gone.

There is no visa between Maldives, Nepal, Bhutan and India. The other countries seek hostility, enmity, and protectionist measures against India, or are just too violent internally such as Afghanistan, otherwise the rest of SAARC would have similar relationship with India.

The geography and politics too is conducive to a larger economic alliance between modern India and all of its Akhand Bharat states with the obvious exception of one. The road and visa and economic and military outreach initiatives of India over the past decade is working exactly towards that push East policy. The Chola Empire v2.0 if you will.

No Muslim country would be willing to form Muslims NATO knowing perfectly well that there would be Beggars like Pakistani Establishment who would sell their own country for a few cents.

You make a reasonable point. Economically and in terms of free borders it would be a non-starter because lets face it, there are very rich muslim countries and very poor muslim countries and such an arrangement would lead to a mass exodus that the natives of the rich countries would never tolerate. Or even temporarily cross subsidise. So a muslim EU is effectively out. Not to mention many muslim populations do not even like each other and would be very hostile to people from such countries moving freely across their borders. Both from a social as well as a security view.

A military alliance on the other hand is eminently possible with pooling of resources and funds. However there needs to be an unchallenged big daddy like the US which all other parties would defer to.

 

[CrazyZ]

In Arab-Israel war, Muslim countries are actually united, especially the oil producers (which include Indonesia). OPEC is basically the result of that. Many Muslim countries get rich as well due to OPEC and big country like Indonesia gets huge revenue from the oil during 1970's-1990 that help the nation economic development.

The same thing can also happen when India wants to invade Pakistan. Energy blockade will happen. Indian economy unlikely be able to prevent downfall if the energy blocade from Muslim countries happen. Many of Indian oil refinery is also owned by Adani Conglomerate who has huge influence in India politics. He will prevent any Indian invasion to Pakistan.

Muslim countries IMO is unlikely to help Pakistan if Pakistan is the one that is aggressive toward India.

This has already benefited Pakistan as we are speaking.

India will not invade Pakistan. It will get nuked and suffer more losses then any nation in the history of human warfare.

An economic union is more useful to Pakistan then a military alliance. An ASEAN type regional economic bloc in Central Asia that Pakistan is part of is very likely, IMO. In the past CA was dominated by ex-Soviet autocrats that pushed Russian domination of CA (so previous CA regional blocs didn't do much). New leaders in Uzbekistan and other CA nations want to diversify away from Russia and are looking for new trade corridors with China and Pakistan. I think regional blocs in the Islamic world are solidifying but there won't be an Islamic "NATO" anytime soon. You will have GCC, Turkiye/Azeri bloc, ASEAN and a CA bloc.

 

[Sayfullah]

I just want Pakistan to be a great nation and maybe have deep alliances with some Muslim countries if it's really that important- this grand Muslim thing doesn't appeal to me cause of practical reasons

If the fore fathers of Pakistan had the same mentality as you there would be no Pakistan.

Pakistan is non existent without Islam. An Islamic Pakistan or NO Pakistan.

I’m only willing to live with other ethnicities and share resources ONLY for the sake of Allah and Islam.

 

[Maula Jatt]

India will not invade Pakistan. It will get nuked and suffer more losses then any nation in the history of human warfare.

An economic union is more useful to Pakistan then a military alliance. An ASEAN type regional economic bloc in Central Asia that Pakistan is part of is very likely, IMO. In the past CA was dominated by ex-Soviet autocrats that pushed Russian domination of CA (so previous CA regional blocs didn't do much). New leaders in Uzbekistan and other CA nations want to diversify away from Russia and are looking for new trade corridors with China and Pakistan. I think regional blocs in the Islamic world are solidifying but there won't be a MENACA "NATO" anytime soon. You will have GCC, Turkiye/Azeri bloc, ASEAN and a CA bloc.

Muslim world should focus on democracy, rule of law and economy

Millitary prowess is the dog that follows it's owners IE economy which comes from rule of law which in turn comes from stability (I believe presidential style of democracy to be the best form of stability over a period of 100-200 years)

In response to your other point India isn't the biggest concern as nukes, than China needs access to our port's so they have an incentive, millitary is no muck (politcs must end true) supported by millions people, doubt there's a need for Muslim NATO- it's not an active concern in my eyes atleast

But yes diplomatically and geopolitically a big concern

our bigger issues are democracy and political stability which will automatically result in a better economy

 

[CrazyZ]

There is OIC, Muslim World League, and Arab League. What good have they done.

SAARC is even more useless then these groups.

 

[Mav3rick]

There have been attempts, to create Muslim Blocs but none succeeded; the latest one was where Bhutto, Saddam, Shah Faysal, Shah Iran, Qadhafi, Assad's father etc., and some like minded rulers of Muslim countries tried to form a bloc, each and everyone of them was brutally executed, one-by-one, some at the hands of their very own countrymen.

 

[Abu Shaleh Rumi]

Without Bangladesh the Muslim NATO is bound to fail.

Bangladesh is Muslim and poor Switzerland. We are neutral...

 

[Indos]

India will not invade Pakistan. It will get nuked and suffer more losses then any nation in the history of human warfare.

An economic union is more useful to Pakistan then a military alliance. An ASEAN type regional economic bloc in Central Asia that Pakistan is part of is very likely, IMO. In the past CA was dominated by ex-Soviet autocrats that pushed Russian domination of CA (so previous CA regional blocs didn't do much). New leaders in Uzbekistan and other CA nations want to diversify away from Russia and are looking for new trade corridors with China and Pakistan. I think regional blocs in the Islamic world are solidifying but there won't be a MENACA "NATO" anytime soon. You will have GCC, Turkiye/Azeri bloc, ASEAN and a CA bloc.

NATO is created when there is threat from Soviet Union. When Muslim countries dont have meaningful threat that threaten their existence, they are unlikely to make military pack among themselves.

As long as the relationship between Muslim countries are well and closed, that is already enough. We can sense brotherhood feeling among Muslim leaders when they met. Indonesia has started to buy defense equipment from Turkey for example and made JV in medium tank program. There will likely another JV in defense sector soon as some MOU have already been signed. These MOU is more pushed by both government, it has brotherly sense on that MOU beside economical and strategic sense (internal interest of each country).

The brotherly sense among Muslims should be more enhanced among the people. This is why Muslim countries make their own sport event

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

SAARC is even more useless then these groups.

There is no visa between Maldives, Nepal, Bhutan and India. The other countries seek hostility, enmity, and protectionist measures against India, or are just too violent internally such as Afghanistan, otherwise the rest of SAARC would have similar relationship with India.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

India and all of its Akhand Bharat states

There was never anything called Akhand Bharat. It was India or Hindustan. Bharatis actually divided India and they are proud of it. They call it the Mahabharat war. So, Akhand Bharat is ideology, not real history and identity. I hate ideologies.