Why isn't there a Muslim 'EU'/NATO?

[Sayfullah]

Because Muslim countries are still neo colonies.
Is there any single Muslim country in the entire world that has Shariah as its Law and has an Islamic system? Muslim countries love simping off west. We deny implementing the perfect Law of Allah and rather prefer man made imperfect laws.
The ones who call for Ummah are put down by their own fellow Muslims first, so how do you expect unity?
Muslims simp of kaffir countries. They throw their own brothers under the bus for their personal. Case in point, if I raise awareness for Uyghur Muslims on this form, before any Chinese attack me I get attacked by my very own Pakistanis cuz iroooon biraaader, even mods start deleting my threads or banning me for doing so. Muslim countries throw Muslims under the bus always for their personal gains so how can you expect any unity?
The reason for this is because there’s no Islamic country left. We only have Muslim countries. Islamic countries = rule by Shariah and have an Islamic system. Muslim countries = have a majority Muslim population. Only an Islamic country can truly think for the benefit of the Ummah.
We really need to fix our selves up and stop simping for others.
Ummah will always exist. Those against it will suffer a humiliating defeat.

 

[Sayfullah]

Currently, the EU is being Islamized

Alhamdulillah

In some areas in several European countries, the number of children with Islamic names exceeds the number of native children.

I don’t know if you know but, a native European can be Muslim too.
Just like Christianity came to pagan Europeans, Islam is now spreading to Christian Europeans.

If this continues, in the future, Muslims will control all of Europe

In Sha Allah

Islam is a religion and In Sha Allah many Europeans will accept Islam and become Muslims.
Already there’s European Muslim countries like Bosnia or Albania.

The same thing happens in the United States, but in this case the Indians. Currently, many of the leaders and core employees in American corporations are Indian.

Indian is a nationality/race.
Islam is a religion.
An American can be Muslim.
An Indian can be Muslim.
Anyone can be Muslim.
An American cannot be Indian race wise.
And Indian cannot be American race wise.
But both can be Muslim.
A Muslim is anyone who is a believer in One God, Allah, and his Messenger Rasulallah (ﷺ).

The United States is being Indianized in all areas.

Indians coming over to America is a group of people coming to another country.
Islam coming to America is native Americans accepting the religion of Truth.
An American can be a Jew or Hindu or Christian or Muslim.

If this situation continues, maybe the US will have an Indian-born president in the future

Idk what that has to do with Islam.
Anyone can be a Muslim even the person I’m the situation your referring to can be Muslim.

 

[omegared]

I asked President Pervez Musharraf this question 20 years ago when he was in charge, in 2003.
Below is his pathetic response.
The full interview is here: President Pervez Musharraf answers your questions
The desire for this has always been around in the hearts and minds of muslims.
When we stood as one, we ruled the planet, we will do so again one day.

 

[S10]

Because Israel through US has effectively utilized a divide and conquer strategy that got you fighting each other for decades, meanwhile they continue to violate you from behind.

 

[CrazyZ]

Muslim countries love to harm each other...

Europeans have harmed each other at levels at scales unheard of in human history. This was the main purpose of founding the EU. European elites wanted to prevent another big war in Europe.....where trade flows armies do not. Core aspect being to force Germany and France together so they don't go to war over some cheese producing province as they have done multiple times in history. Elites in MENACA are not as visionary.

 

[Foinikas]

Arabs tried this with the United Arab Republic and it always failed.

One of the reasons was that Arab countries were ruled by big leader figures,for example Nasser,Hafez Al Assad,Gaddafi, Saddam etc. and each one of them wanted to be the main leader of an Arab federation or of the muslim world.

Apart from that,there were also political differences between them. Syrian Baath vs Iraqi Baath,Libyan Jamahirya,Nasserism,
others supported Iran,others hated Iran,others were close to the Gulf monarchies,other hated them,some were fed up with the Palestinian issue,some despised the Soviets,others liked them.

Today,the situation is even more diverse for Muslim countries. It's harder to convince muslims from different cultures,who have grown up with different history,traditions and alliances...to unite.

For example,Bangladesh,Malaysia,Indonesia...are too different from far-away Maghreb or the culture of the Balkan Muslims.
Secular Turkish Muslims are very different from central african Muslims.

Imagine that even in Pakistan and Afghanistan,there's enmity and hatred between various ethnic groups.

You go to Mecca for Hajj and you see people of different colors and backgrounds,all as one.

But the world is different. There are politics,alliances,things to take into consideration.

Because Israel through US has effectively utilized a divide and conquer strategy that got you fighting each other for decades, meanwhile they continue to violate you from behind.

Don't forget though,that twice,the Arabs lied to each other during the 1967 War and the Yom Kippur War. They had secret plans from each other. Israel didn't have to do much to divide Arabs or Muslims in general...
Saddam pissed off Syria,Khomeini pissed off Saddam,Saddam pissed off the Gulf monarchies,Libya attacked Egypt,Egypt got involved in the civil war in Yemen,Morocco fought the Sahrawi,Algeria fought Morocco,Afghans fought each other,Tajikistan fought Kyrgyzstan,Lebanon...fought itself. Even Hamas fought Fatah.

 

[CrazyZ]

But the world is different. There are politics,alliances,things to take into consideration.

The key thing is the ego, willingness to let go of past grudges and self interest of the elites. EU only happened because European elites decided it was in there interest to suppress there ego's and historical enmities and form a collective. USA fought a bloody civil war yet its elites let go of past grudges and egos to continue and expand its union. Elites in MENACA have never displayed this vision. If anything..its been in MENCA elites self interest to work with external powers and keep the region divided. Colonial interests also set the borders up to encourage this as well.

 

[Vortex]

There are territorial disputes between Muslim nations but there are also such disputes amongst Europeans. There are differences on policy between the US and EU , even, but they still come to a settlement of some sort.

Tribal/Sectarian lines are the biggest hinderance to such an alliance, but these can be overcome too. In a Muslim 'EU'/NATO, the powerful Muslim nations would lead such an alliance and micromanage the sectarian/tribal differences. We are looking at :

1.) Saudi Arabia
2.) Iran
3.) Turkey
4.) Pakistan
5.) Egypt
6.) Algeria
7.) Indonesia
8.) Qatar
9.) Kuwait
10.) UAE

etc.... I probably missed a few so feel free to pitch in.

There must be social/political/economic cooperation. While the more powerful nations contribute to creating a humanitarian fund to help the less fortunate in impoverished areas. They do not need to be on the same page on everything but there must be a settlement in conflict hot zones such as Yemen, Syria. The Union must at least diplomatically and financially support popular causes such as Palestine, Kashmir, etc.... To keep them on the radar. Military solutions to such causes are not realistic at the moment.

Turkey/Qatar has influence over the Muslim Brotherhood and can cause shift to their agenda to begin preaching for an integrated region, that despite big differences among them, can at least pause the culture war in the region, setting change to permantely eliminate it in future.

Saudi Arabia likewise has influence over Arab bloc/Salafi bloc. And can do same.

Iran has the influence over Shia bloc and can reign its proxies in.

...
...

Obviously people will say it's because of US influence. Those that say that also must consider Russian influence. The real reason is people in region do not trust each other. Extending your hand is met with being taken advantage of, by a bloc that wants it all and does not believe in sharing.

I don't understand why we as Muslims can be so selfish and greedy. What is wrong with making some sacrifice in geopolitical interests for greater good of people of region?

If there are any other factors you think prevents a formation of Muslim EU, please share. I can think of one more:

1.) Nations aren't developed enough, and do not know what their potential is, and what they can bring the to the table, especially with oil being phased out in coming decades.

^^

European nations were more developed an each offer something unique. Muslim nations have not realized their potential , despite some of them like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, and maybe Saudi Arabia offering more in some sectors.

First question should be is there any Muslim country ?

 

[Maula Jatt]

I just want Pakistan to be a great nation and maybe have deep alliances with some Muslim countries if it's really that important- this grand Muslim thing doesn't appeal to me cause of practical reasons

- In practical terms its Arab imperialism and dominance if it ever comes to reality
- South Asian Muslims within themselves have a deep hatred for each other Bangladesh, and Pakistan, Indian Muslims want to show loyalty to India so do it more than even non-Muslim Indians to put on a show (as they fear Hindus the most cause are a minority), and Afghanistan deems Pakistan an indo-centric country and cannot see itself co-existing with us, racial issues
- Muslim countries have little in common in geo politics for example Pakistani strategic thinkers don't give a f about Palestine as our issues are with India mostly, and Arabs or Iranians dgaf about Kashmir or India (cause Indians have zero issues with Muslims of the world but south Asian Muslims) as that's not in their strategic interests, for Afghans Pakistan is worse than Israel cause their lands are occupied according to them and historically aligned with India, Iran's- Saudi rivalry goes back centuries - I have seen some Iranian youth calling it backward Arab colonialism forced upon their people (watch this thinking spread across even the Arab world over time cause Arabs aren't really Arabs but have been arabized...)

Just focus on making your country the best version of itself, bring democracy, rule of law

 

[CrazyZ]

I just want Pakistan to be a great nation and maybe have deep alliances with some Muslim countries if it's really that important- this grand Muslim thing doesn't appeal to me cause of practical reasons

- In practical terms its Arab imperialism and dominance if it ever comes to reality
- South Asian Muslims within themselves have a deep hatred for each other Bangladesh, and Pakistan, Indian Muslims want to show loyalty to India so do it more than even non-Muslim Indians, and Afghanistan deems Pakistan an indo-centric country and cannot see itself co-existing with us, racial issues
- Muslim countries have little in common in geo politics for example Pakistani strategic thinkers don't give a f about Palestine as our issues are with India mostly, and Arabs or Iranians dgaf about Kashmir or India (cause Indians have zero issues with Muslims of the world but south Asian Muslims) as that's not in their strategic interests, for Afghans Pakistan is worse than Israel cause their lands are occupied according to them and historically aligned with India, Iran's- Saudi rivalry goes back centuries - I have seen some Iranian youth calling it backward Arab colonialism forced upon their people (watch this thinking spread across even the Arab world over time cause Arabs aren't really Arabs but have been arabized...)

Just focus on making your country the best version of itself, bring democracy, rule of law

By the same reasoning.......why should a Irish person care about Ukraine. There is less in common between an Irish person and Ukrainian then then there's between an Egyptian and Pakistani........its because elites in Ireland and Ukraine show solidarity execute on it. Elites in Egypt and Pakistan show solidarity but do not execute on it.

 

[TheSolution]

I just want Pakistan to be a great nation and maybe have deep alliances with some Muslim countries if it's really that important- this grand Muslim thing doesn't appeal to me cause of practical reasons

- In practical terms its Arab imperialism and dominance if it ever comes to reality
- South Asian Muslims within themselves have a deep hatred for each other Bangladesh, and Pakistan, Indian Muslims want to show loyalty to India so do it more than even non-Muslim Indians, and Afghanistan deems Pakistan an indo-centric country and cannot see itself co-existing with us, racial issues
- Muslim countries have little in common in geo politics for example Pakistani strategic thinkers don't give a f about Palestine as our issues are with India mostly, and Arabs or Iranians dgaf about Kashmir or India (cause Indians have zero issues with Muslims of the world but south Asian Muslims) as that's not in their strategic interests, for Afghans Pakistan is worse than Israel cause their lands are occupied according to them and historically aligned with India, Iran's- Saudi rivalry goes back centuries - I have seen some Iranian youth calling it backward Arab colonialism forced upon their people (watch this thinking spread across even the Arab world over time cause Arabs aren't really Arabs but have been arabized...)

Just focus on making your country the best version of itself, bring democracy, rule of law

Even despite this, you reguarly see Muslims talking about wanting a degree of co-operation and support between each other, so while our situations are generally unique to ourselves there's room for co-operation.

(Though the concern is heavily Arab focused rather than Muslims in general, you hardly hear anything about what happened in Afghanistan/Kashmir, it's mainly about the middle east)

It would essentially just be the OIC but with a bit more practicality

 

[Maula Jatt]

By the same reasoning.......why should a Irish person care about Ukraine. There is less in common between an Irish person and Ukrainian then then there's between an Egyptian and Pakistani........its because elites in Ireland and Ukraine show solidarity execute on it. Elites in Egypt and Pakistan show solidarity but do not execute on it.

who is the elite of Egypt and Pakistan- military more so with Egypt ours is more mixed but still
this or royalty - basically hard power- except for Indonesia and Turkey (both recently got out of military influence) it'll be hard to find one successful democracy in Muslim world

What connects an Irish with an Italian- both are liberal democracies with people power, not hard power
that's why focus on rule of law and democracy- which will translate into something at least in the arab world ours is different geopolitical beast/mess

 

[ziaulislam]

There are territorial disputes between Muslim nations but there are also such disputes amongst Europeans. There are differences on policy between the US and EU , even, but they still come to a settlement of some sort.

Tribal/Sectarian lines are the biggest hinderance to such an alliance, but these can be overcome too. In a Muslim 'EU'/NATO, the powerful Muslim nations would lead such an alliance and micromanage the sectarian/tribal differences. We are looking at :

1.) Saudi Arabia
2.) Iran
3.) Turkey
4.) Pakistan
5.) Egypt
6.) Algeria
7.) Indonesia
8.) Qatar
9.) Kuwait
10.) UAE

etc.... I probably missed a few so feel free to pitch in.

There must be social/political/economic cooperation. While the more powerful nations contribute to creating a humanitarian fund to help the less fortunate in impoverished areas. They do not need to be on the same page on everything but there must be a settlement in conflict hot zones such as Yemen, Syria. The Union must at least diplomatically and financially support popular causes such as Palestine, Kashmir, etc.... To keep them on the radar. Military solutions to such causes are not realistic at the moment.

Turkey/Qatar has influence over the Muslim Brotherhood and can cause shift to their agenda to begin preaching for an integrated region, that despite big differences among them, can at least pause the culture war in the region, setting change to permantely eliminate it in future.

Saudi Arabia likewise has influence over Arab bloc/Salafi bloc. And can do same.

Iran has the influence over Shia bloc and can reign its proxies in.

...
...

Obviously people will say it's because of US influence. Those that say that also must consider Russian influence. The real reason is people in region do not trust each other. Extending your hand is met with being taken advantage of, by a bloc that wants it all and does not believe in sharing.

I don't understand why we as Muslims can be so selfish and greedy. What is wrong with making some sacrifice in geopolitical interests for greater good of people of region?

If there are any other factors you think prevents a formation of Muslim EU, please share. I can think of one more:

1.) Nations aren't developed enough, and do not know what their potential is, and what they can bring the to the table, especially with oil being phased out in coming decades.

^^

European nations were more developed an each offer something unique. Muslim nations have not realized their potential , despite some of them like Turkey, Iran, Indonesia, and maybe Saudi Arabia offering more in some sectors.

Because no two Muslims countries exist that don't have a ethnic, nationalist, linguistics or territorial war


Muslim countries identify themselves as Muslims the last

 

[Menace2Society]

Non whites are tribal in nature with multiple divides.

White people have evolved into a collective.

That utopia you think existed never did and it never will unless you evolve.

 

[CrazyZ]

who is the elite of Egypt and Pakistan- military more so with Egypt ours is more mixed but still
this or royalty

Spot on. Islamic nations are dominated by autocratic regimes. Ego and self interest of the elites take priority over building a broader collective. Its actually in many of these autocrats interests to work with external powers and keep the region divided.