Why is Pakistan not developing like many countries

[Indus Pakistan]

One word: Illiteracy

Even here the problem goes back to the mullah class. In UK it is quite disturbing to see the British-Paks have some of the lowest educational indicators - in fact we are lumped with Blacks and almost at the bottom. The Indians and Chinese conversely are right at the top and above the indigenous English. So what gives? We have to exclude discimination as Indians are brown or often even browner then Pakistani's.

Well, part of the reason is mullahs hold on the British-Pak demographic. As @Azadkashmir will confirm driving through Pakistani areas in UK will be struck by the number of mosques/madaris which have sprouted everywhere. After school you will see lines of Brit-Pak kids [often wearing Arab style gowns - perversly they were born in UK to Pakistani parents and now have converted to being pseudo-Arabs] walking to the local dars to be indoctrinated by the local mullah. The vast effort, time and money invested in this by the community if even half of it was pushed into secular education these kids would quickly rise to even beat the Chinese or Indians.

When after school the Indian/Chinese kids are being taught finer points of calculus mathematics our kids are being taught if swallowing your spit negates fasting. Specifically in Pakistan consider the number of madaris and the bast numbers of children being brainwashed there. If all that effort was used to teach modern education it would produce a generation of engineers, doctors etc and the country would not need to imprt Chinese to design or build their motorways or dams.

 

[SIPRA]

A society that says they are already perfect have no paths to further progress.
Fake superiority feeling will only lead to greater misery.

A perfect diagnosis of Indian society.

 

[Chhatrapati]

The simple way is to do a land reform. In India an individual can only hold 3 Hectares (7.5 acres) of land. But we have more people and less land vis Pakistan but 1000 acres of land for an individual is just too much.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Even here the problem goes back to the mullah class. In UK it is quite disturbing to see the British-Paks have some of the lowest educational indicators - in fact we are lumped with Blacks and almost at the bottom. The Indians and Chinese conversely are right at the top and above the indigenous English. So what gives? We have to exclude discimination as Indians are brown or often even browner then Pakistani's.

Well, part of the reason is mullahs hold on the British-Pak demographic. As @Azadkashmir will confirm driving through Pakistani areas in UK will be struck by the number of mosques/madaris which have sprouted everywhere. After school you will see lines of Brit-Pak kids [often wearing Arab style gowns - perversly they were born in UK to Pakistani parents and now have converted to being pseudo-Arabs] walking to the local dars to be indoctrinated by the local mullah. The vast effort, time and money invested in this by the community if even half of it was pushed into secular education these kids would quickly rise to even beat the Chinese or Indians.

When after school the Indian/Chinese kids are being taught finer points of calculus mathematics our kids are being taught if swallowing your spit negates fasting. Specifically in Pakistan consider the number of madaris and the bast numbers of children being brainwashed there. If all that effort was used to teach modern education it would produce a generation of engineers, doctors etc and the country would not need to imprt Chinese to design or build their motorways or dams.

Had you said the above 5 years ago, you would have been 100% correct. However in recent years, Pakistani pupils in the UK are very close to being on par with white english students in terms of academic achievement:

GCSE English and maths results

In the 2022 to 2023 school year, pupils from the Chinese ethnic group were the most likely out of all ethnic groups to get a grade 4 or above in GCSE English and maths (88.6%).

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk

In terms of academic IMPROVEMENT in the last 10 years, Pakistani and bengali origin pupils have improved the most. Things are changing bro but probably not as fast as you want. In fact white working class and West-indian origin black boys are doing the worst in education:

Redirect Notice

Also, Pakistani pupils are more likely to go to university than white english students:

Why Pakistani students benefit the most from going to university

The government’s race report suggests ethnic minority graduates gain less from university because of poor course choices. Our findings show that’s not quite true.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Trango Towers]

Everyone wants to fix Pakistan

1. Fix yourself. Be honest. Don't lie. Be straight
2. Fix your wife and kids. Forget the parent...you cannot.

Within 2 generations Pakistan will be fine

 

[Maula Jatt]

It would be overrun by neighbouring countries. Heck even had Pakistan any of oil, gas or mineral, she would be overrun.

Her population is a deterrence.

This is so incredibly dumb
No it's not, it never was, it can't be-not natural for mostly arid country to have big population - you have to try a different route for deterrence - like WOMD

 

[Azadkashmir]

Even here the problem goes back to the mullah class. In UK it is quite disturbing to see the British-Paks have some of the lowest educational indicators - in fact we are lumped with Blacks and almost at the bottom. The Indians and Chinese conversely are right at the top and above the indigenous English. So what gives? We have to exclude discimination as Indians are brown or often even browner then Pakistani's.

Well, part of the reason is mullahs hold on the British-Pak demographic. As @Azadkashmir will confirm driving through Pakistani areas in UK will be struck by the number of mosques/madaris which have sprouted everywhere. After school you will see lines of Brit-Pak kids [often wearing Arab style gowns - perversly they were born in UK to Pakistani parents and now have converted to being pseudo-Arabs] walking to the local dars to be indoctrinated by the local mullah. The vast effort, time and money invested in this by the community if even half of it was pushed into secular education these kids would quickly rise to even beat the Chinese or Indians.

When after school the Indian/Chinese kids are being taught finer points of calculus mathematics our kids are being taught if swallowing your spit negates fasting. Specifically in Pakistan consider the number of madaris and the bast numbers of children being brainwashed there. If all that effort was used to teach modern education it would produce a generation of engineers, doctors etc and the country would not need to imprt Chinese to design or build their motorways or dams.

In my town arabs are not at the top of favorites, wearing arab gown will have you cussed out in our pak community. i think london is the place of pak community that sucks upto arab. Although we have our crazy mullahs too, ours are more of like vatican rome popes drug overlords. We have had our top students but to be honest it was the girls who got 10 or more gcses these are the ones that suceed to become doctors/surgeons. gcses any lower than 7 or 8 forget becoming engineer or doctor or have high aspirations. you likely to work as dpd driver or take delivery. lucky ones will go into apprenticeship and brown faces are not selected easily into apprenticeship, whites are luckier.

 

[Maula Jatt]

A perfect diagnosis of Indian society.

Indians mostly have dumb things to say in this forum with bad intentions
Like in this thread only that Chhatrapati guy had something to say, other that it's all B's from Thier lot
Thank God they banned these fools...

 

[Maula Jatt]

Subsidize birth control - every type of birth control

Use polio workers to distribute these birth contorls- with instructions

In the long run - literacy or jobs for women can solve this issue permanently

Punjab, Sindh should go to atleast 2.0 and west of the Indus they (as they're already underpopulated)- let it take natural course

Maybe for fata and KP we need to do something around 3.5,3.0 is good enough



Bolachistan is fine

 

[FuturePAF]

This topic is a dead horse...

It is like beating a dead horse there are literally 1 million threads on it if you search in the history box..

The reason is simple? 40 years war in Afghanistan that is your answer your entire connectivity was clogged....

Besides population growth is the best thing to happen to Pakistan period it has no bearing on the economy.. But it was the clogged connectivity

Agreed, while on the face of it, population grow is a burden for people sharing limited infrastructure, it is beneficial to the economy and a valuable resource that if managed properly can produce the demographic dividend developed countries hoped they had.

The best comparison is Europe versus America. The Europeans aren’t having enough kids and are facing bleaker economic prospects while the Americans have the millennials, a young population that can keep the economy going, despite the ever higher cost of living for the average American millennial.

If the economy starts developing, people will naturally want to have less kids so they can better prepare few kids, for a more complex economy. In a simple and/or Agrarian economy, the more unskilled labor the better.

“Family planning” should not be forced into he people as it can cause unexpected side effects if done to well, as in East Asian and western nations.

On the original topic, of why the country is backwards is a general lack of adequate management and limited rule of law.

We have only partially lived up to the national Motto: “Faith, Unity, DISCIPLINE”

If we invite experts to do a root cause analysis of each and every department, IMHO, they will recommend many changes, but will our elected officials have the will to make the changes. Decades of failing to do such has allowed other economies to leapfrog us and take away our market share in industries where we had an advantage, and we may never be able to gain back that share as those other countries make technological advances to stay ahead. It may only be with greater and greater human capital costs we may be able to catch up in some areas. This is why we need our growing population.

John Nash the Nobel prize winning mathematician said that we must do what is best for ourself AND the group for the most optimal outcome. This was his equilibrium/ Game theory.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Your country's population was 50 million in 1951 and Pakistans population was 33.7 million. In 2021 Pakistan population is more than 210 million and UK only 67 million.
Don't you think Pakistan would be a developed country if its population was 50 or 60 million?

The population shouldn't have just ballooned like that.

Even for a conservative Muslim country, Pakistan's growth is peculiar.

I have a theory as to why this is the case: Easy availability of resources.

Until around the 1970s, things for Pakistanis didn't come easy. My dad was telling me that even in his upper-middle-class home, they'd generally eat 1-2 meals a day, and it'd be very basic stuff like daal, rice and maybe mutton. Why? Because the comforts of easy living weren't available.

So, what changed?

Starting in the 1970s, ZAB decided to give a free hand to his supporters and, in turn, those supporters opened the floodgates for their supporters. Basically, at some point, things like a good job, wealth assets (e.g. land), etc became easily accessible, and to the wrong people. That wealth came from SOEs such as PPP and appropriated industrial units (taken from the private sector).

Nawaz Sharif did something similar, except by taking loans. He took loans to prop our currency up and, in turn, subsidized the lifestyles of those importing goods from abroad as well as the ones dealing them to the local population.

If you look at Pakistan, you'll find that the ones with the most children are the ones eating from this system of entitlement. Basically, we in Pakistan gave a huge chunk of the population a free ride for a few decades. Now, the creditors are at our doorstep asking us to repay what we owe them to fund this huge lifestyle expense. Moreover, the top couldn't afford to keep everyone on payroll, so they cut millions from the system along the way.

Our rulers basically did what the Sheikhs in the GCC do to gratify their supporters. However, in the GCC, they have oil wealth and, in general, keep the goods circulating between a few million people, tops. In Pakistan, we used aid, loans and stolen wealth to support tens of millions of families. Now, those families - who don't know what work ethic looks like - have lots of kids they can't support on their own. Many of them are in poverty, but if you ask the eldest ones, they'll tell you, "yes my father was an officer in railways, and he had 13 kids."

Ultimately, the crux of our unnatural population boom was corruption. Once you stop the gravy train and force people to earn their lifestyle through hard work and merit, you'll see the population growth rate decline and stabilize.

 

[fitpOsitive]

If you can take the time to look at this objectively you will see the point I am making. Note I am not blaming religiion per se, rather the use of religion by mullahs and others to advance what are political or power pursuits. This corrupts religion into a hand maiden of men who want money or power or both.

I said earlier this class is the motherlode of all the diseases that have inflicted backwardness on the country and entirely prevented progress as you have seen in China, Taiwan, Turkey etc.

A poster here cited exploding population and lack of population control. Well any superficial look at history of population control will inform you that various attempts have been made to bring in population control going back to 1960s Ayub's era. It was even then noted that progress would require population growth to be tamed. This attemt and any further attempts in the subsequent eras were quashed by the mullah class who preach 'go forth, fcuk and multiply like rats'.

Any government in Pakistan knows this is a delicate subject and a robust policy would bring the mullah class and their zombies on to the streets - which is why no real effort has been made or will be made.

In similiar way if you look at other points in Pakistan's history you will see the mullahg class behind or responsible for snuffing any progrressive policy and instead arresting the country with primitive rules that have caused so much damage.

See, there are two types of trends around the globe. Population shrinking and polution booming. So either you are from one type of region or the other.
But I don't know which mullaism or Islam has prevented many non Muslim countries from progress? Or even from becoming a superpower?
I will repeat, it totally depends on what you think as an opportunity and what you want to take as an obstacle.

 

[Vanamali]

View attachment 797134
Subsidize birth control - every type of birth control

Use polio workers to distribute these birth contorls- with instructions

In the long run - literacy or jobs for women can solve this issue permanently

View attachment 797135
Punjab, Sindh should go to atleast 2.0 and west of the Indus they (as they're already underpopulated)- let it take natural course

Maybe for fata and KP we need to do something around 3.5,3.0 is good enough



Bolachistan is fine

After seeing thess stats.. I am happy that India is doing little better.. Recent study says TFR of India is lower than 2.1 which is neutral replacement rate. Hope it is maintained and Population is reduced to sustainable volumes. Pakistan needs massive Population controlling measures.. Like increased awareness and incentives to stop with 2 kids. Otherwise it becomes very difficult to manage with limited resources.

 

[imadul]

This topic is a dead horse...

It is like beating a dead horse there are literally 1 million threads on it if you search in the history box..

The reason is simple? 40 years war in Afghanistan that is your answer your entire connectivity was clogged....

Besides population growth is the best thing to happen to Pakistan period it has no bearing on the economy.. But it was the clogged connectivity

No it is not though It is true that this is indulgence in catharsis...
I shall go one step further.
Pakistani people have a DNA problem. Regionalism, schismism, racism, religious bigotry, worship of political elite (who are filthy corrupt), and dirtily-selffish-for-own-interest crossing every bound of fairness--- all these have mutated in a complex DNA "not to reform."
Most of the time I have no hope for Pakistanis.

 

[xyxmt]

we have open borders for Afghans, Bangalis, Asami, Indian muslims and central Asians, Iranians