Why is My Hijab Your Problem?

[Redbull]

Are you guys talking about Zarvan?

Yh, I think Mods gonna close this thread soon.

Too much off-topic stuff.

 

[Ahmad]

Yh, I think Mods gonna close this thread soon.

Too much off-topic stuff.

yea i know, thats why i didnt bother to post anymore in this thread.

 

[Zarvan]

There's no punishment for drinking Alcohol or not wearing Hijab. Your family can advise you on what to do but that is it? The state doesn't punish you for these acts as they are a personal matter. Again you have used a word "Ijtihad", like liberal that you have no understanding of.

Mr that is why I said for this we will look at what Sahabas did on these issues and for your information Mr HAZRAT UMAR RA implemented the punishment of 80 lashes for drinking Alcohol and his own son was caught in his time drinking and he was punished and he died because of this punishment Sir and he is the one who enforced Hijab too Mr

 

[Audio]

^^ 80 lashes

Maybe you should look into mideval Europe inquisitors and their numerous painful ways to rekindle ones faith in religion.

 

[Redbull]

Mr that is why I said for this we will look at what Sahabas did on these issues and for your information Mr HAZRAT UMAR RA implemented the punishment of 80 lashes for drinking Alcohol and his own son was caught in his time drinking and he was punished and he died because of this punishment Sir and he is the one who enforced Hijab too Mr

That is fabricated story.


If we are to assume that it is true,It was done by a father on the insistance of his son, like I said before, that is not an issue of the state, it is a personal family matter to decide these issues.

Prove that Hijab was enforced, merely stating it doesn't carry weight.

 

[Zarvan]

That is fabricated story.


If we are to assume that it is true,It was done by a father on the insistance of his son, like I said before, that is not an issue of the state, it is a personal family matter to decide these issues.

Prove that Hijab was enforced, merely stating it doesn't carry weight.

Sir this is completely true and this incident was done by a Caliph not a personal issue Mr many others were also punished for this

 

[Redbull]

Sir this is completely true and this incident was done by a Caliph not a personal issue Mr many others were also punished for this

Quote another occasions when this was done. This time bring something authentic.

 

[Zarvan]

Quote another occasions when this was done. This time bring something authentic.

Sir incident I quoted is the authentic one if you want to make some stupid excuses and run away from the way of Sahaba your problem

By: Shaheed Ayatullah Abdul Husain Dastghaib Shirazi
If a sane adult person, knowing that liquor is Harām, consumes even a drop of it of his own accord and later confesses to it or is seen in the act of drinking by two just witnesses who testify, the Judge is obliged to award punishment to him.
However punishment cannot be awarded under the following conditions: If the individual who drinks it is a child, or an insane person, or one who is unaware of its prohibition, or one drinks it by mistake being under the impression that it is not liquor and realizes the truth afterwards, or one who drinks it under coercion and force, or one who is compelled to drink due to extreme thirst there being no other way of quenching it.
The Islamic penalty for drinking is eighty lashes. Eighty lashes are given when the person drinks it for the first time. If he repeats the act after receiving 80 lashes he is lashed 160 times. If he repeats the sin again and confesses, or two just witnesses testify before a Qazi (religious Judge) the punishment is tripled; i.e. 240 lashes. The fourth instance of the crime entails capital punishment. Some Mujtahids are of the opinion that capital punishment should be given when the sin is repeated the third time.
If a person confesses and repents before the testimony of two just witnesses, he is condoned. However after the testimony he cannot escape punishment. The drunkard cannot be punished while still intoxicated. He is punished only when he gets sober. If it is a man he is stripped above the waist and lashed from the shoulders and below. It is not allowed to hit the face or the private parts of the accused. If the accused is a woman she is lashed with her clothes on. If her dress is loose, it is made to stick to the body by tying it up. She is lashed in a sitting position.
If a person drinks wine at a sacred place, for example the Holy Kāba or in a sacred period, like the month of Ramadhan, he is lashed and also given a preventive punishment that is, he is beaten so much that he may not dare to repeat the crime.
Ibn Abil al-Hadid records the following incident in Sharh al-Nahjul Balagha%%%0: “Najashi was a famous poet of Kufa. He was originally from Yemen. He was among the army of Amir ul-Mu’minīn (a.s.) at the Battle of Siffin. It was the first day of Ramadhan when his friend, Abu Sammak instigated him to drink wine at the tavern. Under its intoxication he created such a bedlam that his neighbour was compelled to complain to Amir ul-Mu’minīn ‘Ali (a.s.). Hazrat summoned both of them. Abu Sammak fled but Najashi was arrested and brought by the people. By the order of the Imam (a.s.) he was detained for the night. The next day, before the congregation of Muslims he was stripped to the waist and lashed eighty times for drinking wine. After this he was given twenty more lashes. Najashi said, “Eighty lashes were for drinking wine, but why twenty more?” Imam (a.s.) replied,
“This is because you dared to drink during the month of Ramadhan and did not respect its sanctity.” (Furu al-Kāfi, Chapter on Penal Code)
The relatives of Najashi were present in large numbers in the camp of ‘Ali (a.s.). They were perturbed at the extra punishment. One of them, Tarikh Ibn Abdullah said: “We Yemenis are among your loyal friends and Shias. We expected you to consider us differently from your enemies. Najashi is our respected kinsman. By lashing him publicly you have degraded us in the eyes of our friends and enemies. We have began to doubt if the path that we tread leads to Heaven.” Amir ul-Mu’minīn (a.s.) said, “Strict adherence to justice and commands of Allah hurts the sinners. What have I done? Najashi dared to disobey the Divine command. I have only punished him according to the laws. Allah says:
‘... And let not hatred of a people invite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, be careful of (your duty to) Allah...’” (Surah al-Mā’ida 5: 8)
Ibn Abil al-Hadid writes, “Najashi and Tarikh were unable to assert their opinion. They left Kufa and went to Syria to join the group of Muawiya.” Their meeting with Muawiya is not described here. Its details can be studied in Ibn Abil al-Hadid’s Sharh al-Nahjul Balagha, Vol. I part iv page no. 366.

Aloofness from the Drunkard
In order to discourage the evil habit of drinking, Allah (S.w.T.) and the Holy Prophet (S) has commanded that people should not associate with a drunkard and remain totally aloof from him. It is a method by which the drunkard will feel self-conscious about the lack of respect with which his community members view him. Being strictly excluded from company, he will not be able to influence tender or immature minds to develop this obnoxious habit. We can thus restrict the evils of alcoholism that destroy the foundation of individual and social life.
Do not Give your Daughter in Marriage to a Drunkard
Hazrat Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) quotes the Holy Prophet (S), “Allah has made me to pronounce wine as Harām, after this pronouncement if someone still drinks wine, he is not fit to have his proposal for marriage accepted, when he proposes. If he seeks recommendation, he should not be recommended. If he says something he must not be believed. His testimony must not be accepted. Nothing should be kept in his trust. Allah is not responsible for something kept with a drunkard, with the knowledge (of his vice). He will not receive any compensation. If the thing is lost, nothing could be taken in exchange and neither its cost.” (al-Kāfi)
Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says: “One who marries his well-behaved daughter to a drunkard does Qat’a ar-Rahm.” (al-Kāfi)
Imam (a.s.) has also said, “One who marries his well-behaved daughter to a drunkard; it is as if he has given her to adultery.” (Mustadrak ul-Wasa’il)
Imam (a.s.) has also stated in a tradition, “If a drunkard falls ill do not go to visit him. If he dies, do not attend his funeral.”
Boycott of the Drunkard
By adopting this attitude we fulfill our duty of Nahy Anil Munkar. No one should trust or believe a drunkard, and no one should have any dealings with him whatsoever. As clearly ordered by our Holy Prophet (S) and our Imam (a.s.) no one should give his daughter in marriage to a drunkard. When the drunkard finds himself so totally cut off from the society in which he lives, he will be compelled to give up his sinful habit.
Jihad against Intoxicants
The book Burhan al-Qur’an writes against intoxicants: “The evil of intoxicants can be easily proved by the fact that in a country like France a woman legislator urged the parliament to abolish intoxicants completely. She was so disgusted by the ill-effects of alcohol that she protested against it vehemently. Obviously, until the powerful governments put an end to such evils they cannot be eradicated. Mere crusades of individuals, or social boycott will not have much effect.”
It is true that life can be very difficult for some individuals. They face hardships and frustrations till they are driven to despair. Even so, drinking liquor to forget their troubles is not a solution. The physical, economic and social repercussions of this evil will only magnify their problems and engulf them in a vicious circle from which it will be almost impossible to extricate themselves. It is an evil that must be fought by individuals, by society and by the governments. Individual effort and social boycott will certainly help to a great extent. But the authority that the government can exercise in enforcing strict measures will go a long way in eradicating this evil. The American government in the year 1930 had made a serious effort to discourage the use of intoxicants. The propaganda was carried out through newspapers, magazines, radio, television, films and all modes of communication. The total expenses incurred by the government were eight million dollars. Ten billion pages of books and magazines were printed. Within a span of 14 years 250 million dollars were spent. 300 people were hanged, 532000 people were sent to prison, penalties were collected from 1,60,00,000 people and property worth $ 41,50,00,000 was confiscated. All this did not yield the desired result and the number of alcoholics, in fact, increased. In 1933 all these restrictions were withdrawn and complete freedom was given to the public to consume liquor. (From Tankihat of Abul Ala Maududi)
This only goes to show that government restriction alone will not cure this malady. What is needed are the co-ordinated efforts of strict government rules and the boycott of the alcoholics by society.
When Islam prohibited liquor, it considered all these aspects. Islam first strived to remove the causes of alcoholism. After this, it promulgated that liquor is Harām. One of the causes that promotes this habit are the people who themselves give a free rein to this vice. They do not adopt strict methods of prevention. Our society does not view the drunkards unfavourably and does not boycott them so that they may be compelled to give up their habits. According to Islam, dangerous diseases and ailments that befall the soul must be eradicated by all means. The drunkards and alcoholics must also be boycotted economically. People should not transact any business with them and they must also be socially boycotted. Proposals for their marriage must be rejected and none should keep company with them. An ideological war must be carried out against them. They must also be a spiritually cured. Along with heavy penal punishment they must be informed of the ill effects of liquor and other intoxicants.
Even Shias follow the same punishment

 

[Redbull]

I'm not going to read through all of that...make bold all the important parts showing the state gave punishment to someone without their consent for drinking.

 

[Zarvan]

Umar Flogs His Son To Death Abu Shahma was a son of Umar. He fought in the battles in Egypt. After the conquest of Egypt he built a house for himself in Fustat.
One day in the company of a friend he inadvertently drank wine and became unconscious. The following day he went with his friend to Amr bin Al Aas, confessed their guilt, and wanted to be punished. Amr bin Al Aas said that as they had drunk the wine inadvertently, and were feeling repentant, that was enough and no further punishment was called for.
Abu Shahma did not wish to avail of the benefit of inadvertence. He insisted that he should be punished according to law, failing which he would bring the matter to the notice of the Caliph. Thereupon Arm bin Al Aas inflicted the usual punishment of lashes in the compound of his house. Abu Shahma's head was also shaved off in the house of the Governor.
The Reporter reported the matter to Umar, and Umar addressed a letter to Amr b. Al Aas in strong terms as follows:
"O Amr bin Al Aas it has come to my notice that you have been derelict in the performance of your duty. You have shown undue favor to Abu Shahma by awarding him punishment in your house rather than at a public place. You were apparently moved by the consideration that he is my son. You should know that in such matters I cannot tolerate any concession to a person on the ground that he is related to me. As soon as you get this letter send Abu Shahma to Medina on a naked camel."
Amr bin Al Aas complied with the instructions and dispatched Abu Shahma to Madina. In the way Abu Shahma fell sick and when he reached Madina he could hardly walk.
Umar was furious, and he ordered that Abu Shahma should be lashed in the public. Abdul Rahman b. Auf pleaded that the boy had already been lashed in Egypt and no further punishment was called for Abu Shahma said that he was suffering, and the punishment should be deferred till he was recovered.
Umar brushed aside these pleadings Abu Shahma was flogged publicly. Abu Shahma could not withstand the ordeal He fell senseless after a few stripes had been inflicted. He remained in a state of agony for a few days and then died a martyr to the highly developed sense of justice of his father.

I'm not going to read through all of that...make bold all the important parts showing the state gave punishment to someone without their consent for drinking.

You don't have time to read Islam but enough time to make some funny comments related to Islam WOW

 

[Redbull]

I didn't tell you to make bold his name, let me repeat myself.
I'm not going to read through all of that...make bold all the important parts showing the state gave punishment to someone without their consent for drinking.

 

[Zarvan]

Khalifa Umar bin al-Khattab - Islamic Actions and Social Mandates

Umar And Drinking
Drinking was very common among the Quraish. Some accounts say that during the days of ignorance even Umar was a wine bibbler. When Umar became a Muslim, he never touched wine. Umar was a great thinker. He thought that as under the influence of drink one becomes oblivious of his duties and responsibilities, drink must be prohibited by an injunction from God. Umar often talked to the Holy Prophet on the subject, and prayed for an injunction to enforce prohibition.

At Madina the following verse was revealed to the Holy prophet:

"They ask you about wine and games of chance. Say 'They lead to great sin, and have some use for men. But the sin inherent in them exceeds their usefulness." (2: 219)

The Holy Prophet informed Umar of this revelation. Umar said: 'Holy Prophet. This is not enough, pray to God for a specific injunction."

Some time later came another revelation, namely:

"Believers! wine, games of chance, idols, and diving arrows are abominations which are the handiwork of the Devil. Avoid them so that you may prosper." (5: 90)

When Umar was informed of this revleation, he said: "Holy Prophet; this is a negative provision. Pray to God to give some positive injunction."

Then another verse was revealed which provided:

"The Devil intends that by means of wine, games of chance, he should provoke enmity and hatred among you; and stop you from remembering Allah and saying your prayers. Will you not keep them away from them?" (5: 91)

This verse provided the necessary sanction for the prohibition of drinking. In spite of this injunction many Muslims continued to indulge in drinking.

When Umar became the Caliph, and the Muslim conquests extended east and west, bringing prosperity to the Muslims, Umar felt that in order to safeguard the purity of faith some hard and fast policy about drinking should be laid down. While the Holy Qur'an provided specific punishments for some offences, no penalty was specified in the case of drinking. That made some of the wine bibblers take the plea that if God intended prohibition, the penalty for the offence would have been prescribed.

Umar convened a meeting of his Consultative Assembly to consider the question. The first question that was taken up for consideration was: whether the drinking of wine was lawful or unlawful. The verdict was that it was unlawful.

The next question was: if it was unlawful what should be the penalty therefore. Umar agreed that no penalty in this behalf had been laid down in the Holy Quran, but he held that a penalty therefore could be laid down on the basis of analogy keeping in view the penalty provided for offences of kindred character.

Ali argued that the offence of drinking was of the same species as calumny for under the influence of drink one was apt to say many things which he should not have otherwise said. In the case of calumny the Holy Quran provided punishment as follows:

"Give eighty lashes to each one,

Of those who accuse honourable women;

But do not support their accusation with four witnesses.

Do not accept their testimony,

For it is they who break the law."

Ali advised that for drinking the same penalty i. e. eighty lashes should be provided.

This advice was accepted by Umar. Umar issued orders to all concerned to the following effect:

"Drinking is banned under the Holy Quran. If any Muslim drinks and pleads that this was lawful then cut off his head for what he says is a violation of the Holy Word. If he says that it is unlawful but that he fell into error then give him eighty lashes publicly."

These instructions were enforced vigorously, and the Muslim society was practically rid of the evil of drinking.

 

[Redbull]

^^^In which books were these events mentioned? I can't find them anywhere.

Regardless it is being called unauthentic online and even sounds like BS.

At Madina the following verse was revealed to the Holy prophet:

"They ask you about wine and games of chance. Say 'They lead to great sin, and have some use for men. But the sin inherent in them exceeds their usefulness." (2: 219)

The Holy Prophet informed Umar of this revelation. Umar said: 'Holy Prophet. This is not enough, pray to God for a specific injunction."

Some time later came another revelation, namely:

"Believers! wine, games of chance, idols, and diving arrows are abominations which are the handiwork of the Devil. Avoid them so that you may prosper." (5: 90)

When Umar was informed of this revleation, he said: "Holy Prophet; this is a negative provision. Pray to God to give some positive injunction."

Then another verse was revealed which provided:

"The Devil intends that by means of wine, games of chance, he should provoke enmity and hatred among you; and stop you from remembering Allah and saying your prayers. Will you not keep them away from them?" (5: 91)

Why can't God decide the punishment? This makes religion sound like a joke. So God wasn't smart enough to figure out himself how Bad Alchohol was and needed Umar(RAD), a mans help?

You can believe in these shady stories that don't make sense, the Quran clearly gives no punishment, it is a sin, but it's between you and God.

 

[Zarvan]

^^^In which books were these events mentioned? I can't find them anywhere.

Regardless it is being called unauthentic online and even sounds like BS.




Why can't God decide the punishment? This makes religion sound like a joke. So God wasn't smart enough to figure out himself how Bad Alchohol was and needed Umar(RAD), a mans help?

You can believe in these shady stories that don't make sense, the Quran clearly gives no punishment, it is a sin, but it's between you and God.

Sir GOD gave us brain to use it Sir and that is why Ijtihad is in the Quran Sir Mr even method of Salah is not in the and also not of Zakat and Fasting and Hajj and also Quran doesn't forbid us from killing children and women in war its HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW who have stopped Muslims from targeting women and children Mr that is why we have Ijtihad Mr I don't believe in shady stories I believe in authentic things this incidents can be found in all history and also many Hadees books History books most famous of them is of Ibn Kaseer read it GOD knew it but he has allowed some matters to people to decide

^^^In which books were these events mentioned? I can't find them anywhere.

Regardless it is being called unauthentic online and even sounds like BS.

 

[Dubious]

To:

Because women alone will never have the power to change anything. The argument that's peddled around "bunch of guys discussion women dresses" is moot, because its the "guys" who make the rules and enforce them.

imho, my 2 cents and all that.....
Original Post By Audio

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/205983-why-my-hijab-your-problem-52.html#ixzz26AAm6NtW


Someone replies:

That much is obvious is it not?

Can you name one female prophet?

I know I am not the only one who thinks its funny because we got a follow up:

What's the point of this reply? I dont understand it, sorry.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/205983-why-my-hijab-your-problem-52.html#ixzz26ABNYoY3

and

there are others who complain there is no gay god?

This argument is as lame as it gets..

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/205983-why-my-hijab-your-problem-52.html#ixzz26ABS8ZE2