Why is IMF blaming previous Govts for current economic situation in Pakistan.

[BHarwana]

Bhai, when did IMF ever have the authority to tax anything at all? It is the government that sets the prices and the taxes.

Check the global energy raw price and comapre it with Pakistani energy price and see if there is any subsidy. Lower energy prices means cheaper goods means more transaction means more taxes means more revenue for govt. So if IMF policy is to help Govts then why is IMF increasing the energy price?

There is a policy is USA which says if USA money is used to make certain market more competitive against US goods then that money must be stopped that is why IMF goes after energy price.

What USA and China owe to each other is not the topic here, and certainly no concern of the IMF. Pakistan's liabilities, however, are, since it has requested the bailout. Your whataboutery is what is going in circles here, not my logic.

Pompeo brought China in accordance to IMF loan for politicising it so it became part of the topic.

 

[VCheng]

Check the global energy raw price and comapre it with Pakistani energy price and see if there is any subsidy.

The Pakistani government clearly subsidizes energy prices for a majority of the consumers. Check out the tariffs for each slab and see how the lowest rates simply do not cover the price of the energy as delivered.

There is a policy is USA which says if USA money is used to make certain market more competitive against US goods then that money must be stopped that is why IMF goes after energy price.

LOLWUT? There is no such policy. Are you confusing WTO mandates with IMF or USA?

Pompeo brought China in accordance to IMF loan for politicising it so it became part of the topic.

No matter what anyone else says, IMF needs to know all Pakistani liabilities before deciding on a bailout package. It is common sense, let alone its own charter requirement.

 

[BHarwana]

The Pakistani government clearly subsidizes energy prices for a majority of the consumers. Check out the tariffs for each slab and see how the lowest rates simply do not cover the price of the energy as delivered.

How much subsidy is govt giving to energy in Pakistan? Post the percentage please and also please post percentage on which type of energy is subsidized plz

The Pakistani government clearly subsidizes energy prices for a majority of the consumers. Check out the tariffs for each slab and see how the lowest rates simply do not cover the price of the energy as delivered.



LOLWUT? There is no such policy. Are you confusing WTO mandates with IMF or USA?



No matter what anyone else says, IMF needs to know all Pakistani liabilities before deciding on a bailout package. It is common sense, let alone its own charter requirement.

Libalities are all well know $95 billion of which 10% to China 90% to Western institute.

Here is business recorder article on energy taxes. I don't know their authenticity but it has a lot of info for you.

https://fp.brecorder.com/2018/01/20180130339640/

 

[VCheng]

How much subsidy is govt giving to energy in Pakistan? Post the percentage please and also please post percentage on which type of energy is subsidized plz

Here you go:

For electricity:

https://elibrary.worldbank.org/doi/abs/10.1596/29196

(Please do read the report.)

"The cost of residential electricity subsidies in Pakistan amounted to around 0.8 percent of GDP in 2014–2015, about the same as total public health expenditure (The World Bank, 2017). At times in the past decade, electricity subsidies have cost the Government of Pakistan more than 2 percent of GDP, adding to the national debt and weakening the country’s external position. As one element of its reforms of the energy sector, the Government of Pakistan has reduced residential electricity subsidies to around 0.4 percent of GDP over the three years to 2016. This reduction has been achieved partly through cuts to subsidies on the highest-volume residential consumers (as well as commercial and industrial users), and partly by virtue of declining costs of energy worldwide. However, any future hikes in the cost of supply would need to be passed on to the consumer, or absorbed by the government as new debt."


For natural gas:

https://www.reuters.com/article/pak...trim-subsidies-amid-budget-woes-idUSL3N1W33IC

"the move would help ease part of the 152 billion rupee ($1.24 billion) deficit for state-owned Sui Northern and Sui Southern, the two main suppliers of natural gas that are bleeding cash and subsidising consumers and industries. The decision was taken by the Economic Coordination Committee chaired by new Prime Minister Imran Khan, who has vowed radical economic reforms."

Libalities are all well know $95 billion of which 10% to China 90% to Western institute.

That may be true, but it still means that IMF needs to know the full extent of the liabilities of the government to understand what structural reforms are required if the bailout is to be successful in averting the crisis.

 

[Max Pain]

$6 billion is not a big amount but let's make it out last loan from IMF.

Can we?

 

[That Guy]

@BHarwana

I think I should note, don't take anything I say personally. We disagree, and I think we both have enough respect for each other to not let our disagreements cloud out judgement of each other.

I say this, because people have been getting a bit too offended recently over simple disagreements.

Okay here is a simple question. IMF gives loans and pledges assets against those loans. Then takes interests on those loans and their job is done. So why do they also have to then give a policy list. If IMF's job is only to give loans? I mean why the policy list? The truth is bit hard to digest and IMF is not all that innocent

Please read my comment properly, I said it's their job to give loans AND present policy. This policies are designed to make sure the economy grows, and their loans are paid back. You don't make money off of bankrupt nations, you lose money there.

The IMF isn't this great evil people make it out to be, it's a financial institute, and it should be treated like one.

I know exactly what I am talking about dude.West isnt leaving us alone no matter what.neither dead noe alive......

Everyone knows exactly what they're talking about. What that means, I'll let you be the judge.

I am not a child my friend whom you can pamper with these arguments. You and I both know what IMF is, it is a financial and political tool. I can prove my point with just few months back Sec. Pompeo's statements. Plus Indian statements of BJP in this regard. They way they pressurized IMF. We need IMF I know it but it is not what you say it is.

@That Guy IMF is a monetary control political institute. I also know why IMF approved our. The writing is on the wall.

The IMF was never going to reject Pakistan, not even after US threats, the IMF said so itself.

The IMF has its own goals, yes, and it's beholden to its investors, but first and foremost, it is a financial institution. It gives out loans after risk assessments; politics only comes into play, if the nation cannot pay back the loans due to political issues.

 

[nahtanbob]

@BHarwana

I think I should note, don't take anything I say personally. We disagree, and I think we both have enough respect for each other to not let our disagreements cloud out judgement of each other.

I say this, because people have been getting a bit too offended recently over simple disagreements.


Please read my comment properly, I said it's their job to give loans AND present policy. This policies are designed to make sure the economy grows, and their loans are paid back. You don't make money off of bankrupt nations, you lose money there.

The IMF isn't this great evil people make it out to be, it's a financial institute, and it should be treated like one.


Everyone knows exactly what they're talking about. What that means, I'll let you be the judge.


The IMF was never going to reject Pakistan, not even after US threats, the IMF said so itself.

The IMF has its own goals, yes, and it's beholden to its investors, but first and foremost, it is a financial institution. It gives out loans after risk assessments; politics only comes into play, if the nation cannot pay back the loans due to political issues.

if debtor countries do not repay the IMF will not have any money to loan out

Check the global energy raw price and comapre it with Pakistani energy price and see if there is any subsidy. Lower energy prices means cheaper goods means more transaction means more taxes means more revenue for govt. So if IMF policy is to help Govts then why is IMF increasing the energy price?

You are giving a good reason to live within your means and not go to the IMF

 

[BHarwana]

@BHarwana

I think I should note, don't take anything I say personally. We disagree, and I think we both have enough respect for each other to not let our disagreements cloud out judgement of each other.

I say this, because people have been getting a bit too offended recently over simple disagreements.


Please read my comment properly, I said it's their job to give loans AND present policy. This policies are designed to make sure the economy grows, and their loans are paid back. You don't make money off of bankrupt nations, you lose money there.

The IMF isn't this great evil people make it out to be, it's a financial institute, and it should be treated like one.


Everyone knows exactly what they're talking about. What that means, I'll let you be the judge.


The IMF was never going to reject Pakistan, not even after US threats, the IMF said so itself.

The IMF has its own goals, yes, and it's beholden to its investors, but first and foremost, it is a financial institution. It gives out loans after risk assessments; politics only comes into play, if the nation cannot pay back the loans due to political issues.

My friend I respect you a lot, I never take your arguments personally. IMF presents loans and policies I agree and different policies effects countries differently. That is where the catch is. Those policies can be used to control countries.

Yes it is a financial institution but there are also political uses of it.

Look I am not going to go in circles for you but we had most IMF programs in history and yet we always need them every five years now. Why are IMF policies not working. If someone tells me that IMF policies were not implemented then sorry they were implemented because years of inflation is the proof of that.

 

[VCheng]

Why are IMF policies not working. If someone tells me that IMF policies were not implemented then sorry they were implemented because years of inflation is the proof of that.

Years of inflation is proof of piss-poor economic policies of successive governments, and nothing more.

Please do look up the record: Pakistan has NEVER completed an IMF program successfully without requesting variations due to its failures to meet agreed upon goals.

 

[That Guy]

My friend I respect you a lot, I never take your arguments personally. IMF presents loans and policies I agree and different policies effects countries differently. That is where the catch is. Those policies can be used to control countries.

Yes it is a financial institution but there are also political uses of it.

Look I am not going to go in circles for you but we had most IMF programs in history and yet we always need them every five years now. Why are IMF policies not working. If someone tells me that IMF policies were not implemented then sorry they were implemented because years of inflation is the proof of that.

Inflation? The rupee was artificially held up by selling bonds, the noon league gov refused to let it inflate properly.

I completely disagree that the IMF policies were implemented. The biggest demands the IMF had during the last deal was that Nawaz Sharif sell off loss making gov owned corporations, like PIA and PSM, as well as doubling the amount of people who pay income tax, neither of which occurred. In fact, we saw a net decrease in people paying income tax, and push back about selling government held corporate entities.

 

[maximuswarrior]

yeeea, why isn't the gov talking about this openly on the media? instead the media and the haram traitor politicians are blackmailing the state.

You wonder what happened to that 35 billion that Noora borrowed from IMF.

 

[BHarwana]

Inflation? The rupee was artificially held up by selling bonds, the noon league gov refused to let it inflate properly.

I completely disagree that the IMF policies were implemented. The biggest demands the IMF had during the last deal was that Nawaz Sharif sell off loss making gov owned corporations, like PIA and PSM, as well as doubling the amount of people who pay income tax, neither of which occurred. In fact, we saw a net decrease in people paying income tax, and push back about selling government held corporate entities.

Rupee was held up for corruption by PMLN but the actual inflation happened in energy and that is where IMF moves in.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Find your own sources. It's common knowledge the PPP inherited a BoP crisis caused by Musharraf's mismanagement.

LOL this guy is a PPP baghora. It finally comes to the forefront.

 

[That Guy]

if debtor countries do not repay the IMF will not have any money to loan out

Eh, it depends on the leadership, and political will. The IMF always does a risk assessment, before handing out loans.

 

[BHarwana]

PIA has broken even today so has now IMF asked to privatize it?