Why is great philosopher Kautilya not part of Pakistan’s historical consciousness?

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

Yeah to me.

Since I'm one of the older ones here. A rarity in this sea of pimples and testosterone.

Cheers, Doc

But your profile says 36 years.

 

[El Sidd]

The land we got after independence was house of many civilizations and different religions but later Islam dominates that areas with the passage of time since many thousand soldiers came from Arab with families due to different reasons and it is totally unfair to say that we are descendant of Hindus.

If you keep scratching you will fight over who is homo sapien or who is neanderthal.
This is just a waste of time and these discussions are more suited to Indian society who have a very intricate caste system which the people of Pakistan do not really care about maybe just the old traditional people when it comes to marriage.

Hardly a thing to waste your time upon.

 

[padamchen]

But your profile says 36 years.

I'm actually 10 years older than that.

Cheers, Doc

 

[El Sidd]

Yeah to me.

Since I'm one of the older ones here. A rarity in this sea of pimples and testosterone.

Cheers, Doc

Than i am younger than you.

I am not much into labels and numbers.

Once you put a number or a label on something. it loses its value drastically. Not a good marketing technique i tell you

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

If you keep scratching you will fight over who is homo sapien or who is neanderthal.
This is just a waste of time and these discussions are more suited to Indian society who have a very intricate caste system which the people of Pakistan do not really care about maybe just the old traditional people when it comes to marriage.

Hardly a thing to waste your time upon.

We are not discussing our caste or origin but philosophy related to or land.

 

[El Sidd]

We are not discussing our caste or origin but philosophy related to or land.

Philosophy is not bound to territory.

Now there is a philosophical metaphor you can toy with all day.

 

[padamchen]

If you keep scratching you will fight over who is homo sapien or who is neanderthal.
This is just a waste of time and these discussions are more suited to Indian society who have a very intricate caste system which the people of Pakistan do not really care about maybe just the old traditional people when it comes to marriage.

Hardly a thing to waste your time upon.

The Hindu caste system and its dynamics of power protection, manipulation, biradari, and subjugation towards service of the upper tip of the pyramid is alive and kicking furiously in Pakistan.

Its a civilizational appendage you can rename, recast, but ultimately not rid yourself of.

Cheers, Doc

 

[third eye]

According to my personal opinion the main reason we can't or don't claim our old heritage is Islam and philosophies related to our old past has no relevance in Islam.

The author has this to say ..

Whilst the world recognises Chanakya's stature as a philosopher, he’s nothing more than another example of how our nation has made someone a pariah without realising what they stood for.

If Pakistan is to come out of its tortuous identity crisis, it needs to accept its non-Muslim history as its own.

 

[Kambojaric]

That is also true.

While Islam is a continuum of Abrahamic theologies of Judaism and Christiantiy that borrowed heavily from and were influenced greatly by the Aryan faith of Zoroastrianism and its key tenets, Islam and Hinduism have no common ground as such.

Which is also one of the key reasons why Hindustan never could be converted completely unlike Persia.

Cheers, Doc

The trauma of partition will take time to heal, but I can tell you that things are on an upward trajectory and the Gandhara legacy is increasingly growing in popularity especially amongst younger groups. There is also a lot of activity amongst archaeologists in this region since a few years back.

 

[El Sidd]

The Hindu caste system and its dynamics of power protection, manipulation, biradari, and subjugation towards service of the upper tip of the pyramid is alive and kicking furiously in Pakistan.

Its a civilizational appendage you can rename, recast, but ultimately not rid yourself of.

Cheers, Doc

Once the people get rid of feudalistic form of governance. All these superficial idols holding the growth back will turn into dust.
As long as there is unfair distribution of wealth and resource these social evil will exist.
Its a natural process and it takes its own time.

Nothing which i can say or you can do will change that.

 

[padamchen]

Once the people get rid of feudalistic form of governance. All these superficial idols holding the growth back will turn into dust.
As long as there is unfair distribution of wealth and resource these social evil will exist.
Its a natural process and it takes its own time.

Nothing which i can say or you can do will change that.

How many lifetimes are you willing to wait?

I am talking about a social system that has evolved and been our civilizational DNA over thousands of years.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

How many lifetimes are you willing to wait?

I am talking about a social system that has evolved and been our civilizational DNA over thousands of years.

Cheers, Doc

There is no possibility that system would change but it has to be evolved and process slow but underway, Only education, quality debates and good futuristic political leadership make it fast.

Kautilya is very old past but we are not even able to own Saadat Hassan Manto.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The land we got after independence was house of many civilizations and different religions but later Islam dominates that areas with the passage of time since many thousand soldiers came from Arab with families due to different reasons and it is totally unfair to say that we are descendant of Hindus.

"House of many civilizations". Good summary. Paks are also decendants of "many peoples" one strand was what you might call proto-Hindus because Hinduism as it exists today is relatively new concept.

But bear in mind there never as no such thing as "Hindu" people but a polyglot of peoples with similar belief systems. So a proto- Hindu from Charsadda in 200CE was entirely differant person to a proto-Hindu from Chennai in 200CE.

Thinking they were same is like assuming a Ethopian Christian from 500CE was exactly same as Christian from Rome in 500CE. They were entirely differant peoples but with some shared aspects of their belief system.

I would add that the Arabic/Semite component in Pak population is very, very low with some presence in Sindh/Mekran coast. Rest of the population is effectively native evolved and is product of the vortex of genetic mixture that has played out in the Indus rgion over the last 10,000 years.

And when I say "native" I don't mean it is same as rest of South Asia. Differant mixtures have played out in differant regions of South Asia and produced local variations that are unique to each region but also share common roots.

This is similiar to other parts of the world. Japanese, Filipinos, Indonesians, Malays have similarities but at the same time there are differances. Same in Europe where there is gradual change from the north (Norway) to south (Greece) or south west (Spain).

Therefore it is important we recognize differances but at the same time accept the similarities.

 

[DarX]

Partition gave Pakistan a fantastic opportunity to be like Iran with regard to their pre-Islamic past. Without baggage (the baggage having moved to India).

Such would have been difficult, if not impossible, were India to have been undivided, and Hindu-dominant still.

Unfortunately Pakistan lost that opportunity of owning and embracing her history. Of the land and its people. Of a civilizational continuum. Not unlike Iran with its Persian legacy.

In refusing to acknowledge and own its Hindu (and Buddhist) past, ironically Pakistan actually remains joined at the cord to India.

This is my personal opinion.

Cheers, Doc

That was quite confusing. how can Pakistan remain joined to Hindu India if it refuses to acknowledge Hindu past?

 

[padamchen]

There is no possibility that system would change but it has to be evolved and process slow but underway, Only education, quality debates and good futuristic political leadership make it fast.

Kautilya is very old past but we are not even able to own Saadat Hassan Manto.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to break into the ruling elite.

You have to be brought in and sponsored by those already there.

Case in point was the rise of a supposed "new" party from the grassroots in India called AAP.

Very romantic story. Caught the fancy of many people, including my dad.

We all saw it happen in front of our eyes.

But no one in India is naive enough to believe that they did it on their own without an invisible hand behind them (pardon the terrible pun ...)

Cheers, Doc

 

[Yerusalem 4880 Kms]

That was quite confusing. how can Pakistan remain joined to Hindu India if it refuses to acknowledge Hindu past?

Pakistan doesn't have only Hindu past that was also gone with people how migrated to India after partition but we do have many civilization and their philosophy which we should study to understand our future better.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to break into the ruling elite.

You have to be brought in and sponsored by those already there.

Case in point was the rise of a supposed "new" party from the grassroots in India called AAP.

Very romantic story. Caught the fancy of many people, including my dad.

We all saw it happen in front of our eyes.

But no one in India is naive enough to believe that they did it on their own without an invisible hand behind them (pardon the terrible pun ...)

Cheers, Doc

Time and education evolve social norms but it takes time, example is west.