What's new

Why India's idea of a limited war is a delusion

Devil Soul

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
22,931
Reaction score
45
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Limited war
JAVED HUSAIN — UPDATED 24 MINUTES AGO
Inspired by the bellicose nature of his prime minister, the Indian army chief has threatened Pakistan with punitive action in the form of limited war for waging a so-called proxy war against India. Apart from his misplaced confidence in his army, the Pakistan Army’s commitment on the western front could also have encouraged him. The unprovoked firing and shelling across the Working Boundary and the Line of Control could well be the prelude to starting a limited war.

Limited war is a geographically confined conflict short of general war in which the political aim, space, time and the weapons used are limited. According to André Beaufre, a French strategist, “Limited wars are a sort of tough negotiations”.

Limited war can be categorised as insurrectional and non-insurrectional. The former, basically a guerilla war, was fought by the US in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, by the erstwhile Soviet Union in Afghanistan, is being fought by India in India-held Kashmir, its seven north–eastern states and 14 states dominated by Naxalites, by Pakistan in Fata and outside it, and by Afghanistan against the Afghan Taliban. Examples of the latter are the Indo-Pak wars and the Arab-Israel wars. However, if during the non-insurrectional war, the geographical limitation is lifted, limited war would be transformed into general war.

The other differences between the two categories are that the insurrectional war is not geographically confined, and is not conditioned by time for the guerillas. Therefore, unless the counter-guerilla forces crush the guerilla forces within a year, the war tends to drag on for years, which makes the soldiers vulnerable to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

India’s war directors must question their commanders’ ability.
In the aftermath of the 10-month standoff fiasco in 2001 the Indian army developed a limited war doctrine called Cold Start to respond to what it calls proxy war by Pakistan. The essence of this doctrine is transferring the army’s offensive power from the three strike corps to eight division-sized integrated battle groups (IBGs) who would be positioned close to the border so that three to five are launched within 72 to 96 hours after mobilisation is ordered.

Patterned on Israeli army’s concept of task forces, Cold Start envisages high-speed operations to achieve the objectives in the desired time and space framework. Therefore, since a non-insurrectional limited war is conditioned by time, the matching of physical means of mobility with the mobility of mind assumes critical importance, for, commanders whose minds are characterised by lack of enterprise, imagination, flexibility and initiative, can reduce the value of a highly mobile force to zero.

In the 1965 war, despite its overwhelming numerical superiority, the Indian strike corps (1 Corps) penetrated some 11 kilometres only in Sialkot sector in 21 days, while in 1971 the same corps, though reinforced, penetrated approximately 13 km in 14 days, that too when it was opposed by light covering troops. In both wars the Indian army was schematic in its operations. Changes in dispositions, reassigning of objectives, switching of forces not in accordance with their original plans took time.

The following comments by Indian generals also highlight the weaknesses of their army: Lt Gen Harbaksh Singh, Commander Western Command in 1965, in his book War Despatches wrote “In XI Corps there was a sickening repetition of command failures”. “In 1 Corps the guiding hand of the corps commander was conspicuously absent…. leading to a dismal failure at lower levels.” Maj Gen Niranjan Prasad, GOC 15 Division in 1965, sacked on Sep 7, in his captured war diary said: “There is no deep thinking in the Indian army…. there is a cheap attitude to underestimate the enemy and to show off one’s own toughness to his superiors.” Maj Gen Sukhwant Singh, DDMO in 1971, in his book Defence of the Western Border wrote: “The generals who led the Indian army [in 1971] on the western front had no concept of conducting a short war”.

The Indian war directors must question the ability of their commanders at all levels to conduct high-speed operations with flexibility, rapidity and less military routine.

Despite the weaknesses demonstrated by the Indian army in 1965 and 1971, the Pakistan Army does not underestimate their war potential. They could launch an operation in southern Pakistan to split Pakistan in two, and another operation in Ravi-Chenab corridor to acquire depth for their vulnerable line of communication that connects the Indian mainland with Jammu and Kashmir.

However, the fact is that the army here can occupy its wartime locations much earlier than the Indian army confers on it the ability to pre-empt any Indian effort. Suffice it to say that the reorganised force has multiplied its capability to devastate the Indian army’s IBGs or strike corps in their assembly areas by powerful massed fires.

If the Indian army chief still decides to start a limited war, his country would have to pay dearly for his error of judgement.

The writer is a former armour and SSG officer.

Published in Dawn, September 21st, 2015
 
.
The author thankfully avoids the nuclear threat, mentioned hitherto ad infinitum by nearly all the Pakistani analysts, politicians, civil and military officials of all rank and charity workers for nearly every topic under the Sun covering India, including cancellation of talks. As such the writer must be applauded. Now to get back on topic.

The essence of this doctrine (CSD) is transferring the army’s offensive power from the three strike corps to eight division-sized integrated battle groups (IBGs) who would be positioned close to the border so that three to five are launched within 72 to 96 hours after mobilisation is ordered.

Incorrect understanding. The essence of Proactive-Defense Doctrine is the reorganization of the Holding (now Pivot) Corps to allow initial offensive combat operations without the awaiting the mobilization of the logistics train. They are to mount independent operations with the twin objectives of seizing territory and engaging Pakistani formations for upto 72-96 hours; the time required for the logistics train to link up, and for the Strike Corps to go into action.

As per new schedules, tested, refined & verified in repeated war games, the entire I & II Strike corps can begin mounting full fledged assaults with 72 hours of the mobilization order.

The Indian war directors must question the ability of their commanders at all levels to conduct high-speed operations with flexibility, rapidity and less military routine.

The German Army failed to seize Paris in 4 years in WW1; the Wehrmacht captured the whole of France in 53 days. The German army went from a crawl of few yards in 1916 to rapid advances of upto 100 miles a day in the span of 22 years. The Red Army advanced 550 km in the week following Operation Bagration. What this shows is that history is not a very good indicator of the future. Harping on the supposed inferior skills of the Indian commanders 3 generations past is beyond ridiculous.

Speed, fury and decisiveness of action have been the central points of training for every IA armored and mechanized formation commander ever since the Sunderji era. The captains of that era now command the divisions of today.

However, the fact is that the army here can occupy its wartime locations much earlier than the Indian army confers on it the ability to pre-empt any Indian effort.

The premise stated above hold only if PA receives information/intelligence of an impending, imminent attack. Given that the Pivot Corps are stationed near the IB/LOC, with certain groups within them kept at high readiness levels, the first formations could be streaming across the IB in as little as 12-24 hours of the beginning of a major terrorist incident, even before general mobilization begins for the other formations; infact before the counter-terror operations are drawn down.

Suffice it to say that the reorganised force has multiplied its capability to devastate the Indian army’s IBGs or strike corps in their assembly areas by powerful massed fires.

If the Indian army chief still decides to start a limited war, his country would have to pay dearly for his error of judgement.

As expected, copious amount of bluster and braggadocio.Any Pakistani massed fire group, artillery or armor, would gleam like the moon on a cloudless night when viewed through SAR and infrared. And given that a single CBU-105 could wreck an entire armored regiment, PA would be well advised to avoid handing IAF victory on a platter.
 
.
The Indian Army Chief said Indian Army is ready for any eventuality including a short swift war if the border situation escalates. The Pakistanis heard it as Indian Army is going to wage a limited war with Pakistan, talk about being paranoid.
 
.
The author thankfully avoids the nuclear threat, mentioned hitherto ad infinitum by nearly all the Pakistani analysts, politicians, civil and military officials of all rank and charity workers for nearly every topic under the Sun covering India, including cancellation of talks. As such the writer must be applauded. Now to get back on topic.



Incorrect understanding. The essence of Proactive-Defense Doctrine is the reorganization of the Holding (now Pivot) Corps to allow initial offensive combat operations without the awaiting the mobilization of the logistics train. They are to mount independent operations with the twin objectives of seizing territory and engaging Pakistani formations for upto 72-96 hours; the time required for the logistics train to link up, and for the Strike Corps to go into action.

As per new schedules, tested, refined & verified in repeated war games, the entire I & II Strike corps can begin mounting full fledged assaults with 72 hours of the mobilization order.



The German Army failed to seize Paris in 4 years in WW1; the Wehrmacht captured the whole of France in 53 days. The German army went from a crawl of few yards in 1916 to rapid advances of upto 100 miles a day in the span of 22 years. The Red Army advanced 550 km in the week following Operation Bagration. What this shows is that history is not a very good indicator of the future. Harping on the supposed inferior skills of the Indian commanders 3 generations past is beyond ridiculous.

Speed, fury and decisiveness of action have been the central points of training for every IA armored and mechanized formation commander ever since the Sunderji era. The captains of that era now command the divisions of today.



The premise stated above hold only if PA receives information/intelligence of an impending, imminent attack. Given that the Pivot Corps are stationed near the IB/LOC, with certain groups within them kept at high readiness levels, the first formations could be streaming across the IB in as little as 12-24 hours of the beginning of a major terrorist incident, even before general mobilization begins for the other formations; infact before the counter-terror operations are drawn down.



As expected, copious amount of bluster and braggadocio.Any Pakistani massed fire group, artillery or armor, would gleam like the moon on a cloudless night when viewed through SAR and infrared. And given that a single CBU-105 could wreck an entire armored regiment, PA would be well advised to avoid handing IAF victory on a platter.
So we're better off with nuclear then. :P
 
.
"Next time, there won't be a next time'
There will not be short or limited war because it will promptly escalate to a full fledged war.
 
.
"Limited War" Defensive policy is our illusion and deception ! Simple logic . Wat waste this writer's time ?

"Next time, there won't be a next time'
There will not be short or limited war because it will promptly escalate to a full fledged war.
Of Course that's the sad but its the reality !
 
.
Limited war
JAVED HUSAIN — UPDATED 24 MINUTES AGO
Inspired by the bellicose nature of his prime minister, the Indian army chief has threatened Pakistan with punitive action in the form of limited war for waging a so-called proxy war against India. Apart from his misplaced confidence in his army, the Pakistan Army’s commitment on the western front could also have encouraged him. The unprovoked firing and shelling across the Working Boundary and the Line of Control could well be the prelude to starting a limited war.

Limited war is a geographically confined conflict short of general war in which the political aim, space, time and the weapons used are limited. According to André Beaufre, a French strategist, “Limited wars are a sort of tough negotiations”.

Limited war can be categorised as insurrectional and non-insurrectional. The former, basically a guerilla war, was fought by the US in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, by the erstwhile Soviet Union in Afghanistan, is being fought by India in India-held Kashmir, its seven north–eastern states and 14 states dominated by Naxalites, by Pakistan in Fata and outside it, and by Afghanistan against the Afghan Taliban. Examples of the latter are the Indo-Pak wars and the Arab-Israel wars. However, if during the non-insurrectional war, the geographical limitation is lifted, limited war would be transformed into general war.

The other differences between the two categories are that the insurrectional war is not geographically confined, and is not conditioned by time for the guerillas. Therefore, unless the counter-guerilla forces crush the guerilla forces within a year, the war tends to drag on for years, which makes the soldiers vulnerable to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

India’s war directors must question their commanders’ ability.
In the aftermath of the 10-month standoff fiasco in 2001 the Indian army developed a limited war doctrine called Cold Start to respond to what it calls proxy war by Pakistan. The essence of this doctrine is transferring the army’s offensive power from the three strike corps to eight division-sized integrated battle groups (IBGs) who would be positioned close to the border so that three to five are launched within 72 to 96 hours after mobilisation is ordered.

Patterned on Israeli army’s concept of task forces, Cold Start envisages high-speed operations to achieve the objectives in the desired time and space framework. Therefore, since a non-insurrectional limited war is conditioned by time, the matching of physical means of mobility with the mobility of mind assumes critical importance, for, commanders whose minds are characterised by lack of enterprise, imagination, flexibility and initiative, can reduce the value of a highly mobile force to zero.

In the 1965 war, despite its overwhelming numerical superiority, the Indian strike corps (1 Corps) penetrated some 11 kilometres only in Sialkot sector in 21 days, while in 1971 the same corps, though reinforced, penetrated approximately 13 km in 14 days, that too when it was opposed by light covering troops. In both wars the Indian army was schematic in its operations. Changes in dispositions, reassigning of objectives, switching of forces not in accordance with their original plans took time.

The following comments by Indian generals also highlight the weaknesses of their army: Lt Gen Harbaksh Singh, Commander Western Command in 1965, in his book War Despatches wrote “In XI Corps there was a sickening repetition of command failures”. “In 1 Corps the guiding hand of the corps commander was conspicuously absent…. leading to a dismal failure at lower levels.” Maj Gen Niranjan Prasad, GOC 15 Division in 1965, sacked on Sep 7, in his captured war diary said: “There is no deep thinking in the Indian army…. there is a cheap attitude to underestimate the enemy and to show off one’s own toughness to his superiors.” Maj Gen Sukhwant Singh, DDMO in 1971, in his book Defence of the Western Border wrote: “The generals who led the Indian army [in 1971] on the western front had no concept of conducting a short war”.

The Indian war directors must question the ability of their commanders at all levels to conduct high-speed operations with flexibility, rapidity and less military routine.

Despite the weaknesses demonstrated by the Indian army in 1965 and 1971, the Pakistan Army does not underestimate their war potential. They could launch an operation in southern Pakistan to split Pakistan in two, and another operation in Ravi-Chenab corridor to acquire depth for their vulnerable line of communication that connects the Indian mainland with Jammu and Kashmir.

However, the fact is that the army here can occupy its wartime locations much earlier than the Indian army confers on it the ability to pre-empt any Indian effort. Suffice it to say that the reorganised force has multiplied its capability to devastate the Indian army’s IBGs or strike corps in their assembly areas by powerful massed fires.

If the Indian army chief still decides to start a limited war, his country would have to pay dearly for his error of judgement.

The writer is a former armour and SSG officer.

Published in Dawn, September 21st, 2015
Indians have some delusions that if they would try to strike us we won't respond and our response would be limited. Sorry to disappoint Indians but times have changed and don't have much defensive policy the moment you try to send jets inside India not only we would shoot them down but would for next several days unleash hell on India and its cities and its forces.
 
.
The Indian Army Chief said Indian Army is ready for any eventuality including a short swift war if the border situation escalates. The Pakistanis heard it as Indian Army is going to wage a limited war with Pakistan, talk about being paranoid.
Yea paranoid. Your 'army chief' doesn't even realize there can be nothing like a short swift war between these two countries. Once war is declared there will be nothing short or swift it is going to escalate to the point of total destruction. Even a new recruit can analyze that, talk about a dumb army chief.
 
.
Indians have some delusions that if they would try to strike us we won't respond and our response would be limited. Sorry to disappoint Indians but times have changed and don't have much defensive policy the moment you try to send jets inside India not only we would shoot them down but would for next several days unleash hell on India and its cities and its forces.

And as if we are gonna stand back and watch you guys 'unleashing hell' in our cities! If we are going to hell, be assured, we are taking you with us.

More realistically, unless Pakistan tries something fancy, I am pretty sure that India is not going to initiate a war, of any scale.
 
.
Yea paranoid. Your 'army chief' doesn't even realize there can be nothing like a short swift war between these two countries. Once war is declared there will be nothing short or swift it is going to escalate to the point of total destruction. Even a new recruit can analyze that, talk about a dumb army chief.
The cold start doctrine is all about capturing a small piece of land b4 the situation is escalated or war is declared.....you should read more and try to understand what a swift war is

Indians have some delusions that if they would try to strike us we won't respond and our response would be limited. Sorry to disappoint Indians but times have changed and don't have much defensive policy the moment you try to send jets inside India not only we would shoot them down but would for next several days unleash hell on India and its cities and its forces.
Pakistan is not going to unleash hell....CSD is all about using tactical nukes to avoid the IA from entering......
But IA considers that as an strategic attack....so that makes things interesting
 
.
The cold start doctrine is all about capturing a small piece of land b4 the situation is escalated or war is declared.....you should read more and try to understand what a swift war is


Pakistan is not going to unleash hell....CSD is all about using tactical nukes to avoid the IA from entering......
But IA considers that as an strategic attack....so that makes things interesting
The problem is you people think you know how Pakistan army will respond.:lol:
 
. . . . .

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom