Why India has lost more wars than Pakistan

[P@nThEr]

all Indo Pakistan war was regarding Kashmir..We can see how it has turned out for Pakistan.



About 1947,
Kashmir was not a part of India.Hari Singh referred to remain independent and did not want to join either the India or Pakistan.Taking advantage of the situation, the Gilgit Scouts staged a rebellion in the Northern Areas under British command. After the Partition of India the Gilgit Scouts joined with the forces of the Pakistan Army in attacks against forces of the erstwhile princely state during the First Kashmir War. As a result, this region became effectively a part of Pakistan (Azad Kashmir).Then India saved the other part of Kashmir from being eaten by Pakistanis..Fact is simple if you get..

For other wars,
Your every desperate attempt to snatch Indian Kashmir was destroyed & you had to return with face of humiliation..

Spot on.
They won't get this simple thing & always find away to self glorification out of humiliation.

 

[Gregor Clegane]

Ultimately Pakistanis withdrew and India regains possession of Kargil with no Territorial changes,Hence it was another stalemate.

Your forgot that we captured point 5770 from Pakistanduring Kargil and still hold it.

 

[.]

all Indo Pakistan war was regarding Kashmir..We can see how it has turned out for Pakistan.

Check again,Whenever i see Kashmir in your media ,You still cry about the 1/3rd we got in 1947
Holy shit man,Stop twisting historical facts Just google kashmir and read it in wikipedia.
In all the war's you crossed the international boundary,you opened a front in Punjab in 1965 war to capture lahore (we didn't open a front in Punjab).

Your every desperate attempt to snatch Indian Kashmir was destroyed & you had to return with face of humiliation..

See the map you child,you have lost half of Kashmir to china and Pakistan,Every desperate attempt to capture and annihilate Pakistan has turned into defeat for your mighty army ,Half of your indian friends on this website brag about the 1965 war saying "We should've captured lahore if it wasn't for our politics" ,Now the fallacy in that is you guys were in full retreat
Stop living in denial,according to you 47 and 62 was also a victory

Your forgot that we captured point 5770 from Pakistanduring Kargil and still hold it.

You militarized those heights (We didn't!!!!)
You gained nothing substantial.

 

[TooRave]

Check again,Whenever i see Kashmir in your media ,You still cry about the 1/3rd we got in 1947
Holy shit man,Stop twisting historical facts Just google kashmir and read it in wikipedia.
In all the war's you crossed the international boundary,you opened a front in Punjab in 1965 war to capture lahore (we didn't open a front in Punjab).

See the map you child,you have lost half of Kashmir to china and Pakistan,Every desperate attempt to capture and annihilate Pakistan has turned into defeat for your mighty army ,Half of your indian friends on this website brag about the 1965 war saying "We should've captured lahore if it wasn't for our politics" ,Now the fallacy in that is you guys were in full retreat
Stop living in denial,according to you 47 and 62 was also a victory

Well don't spew media bs.you invaded Kashmir while whole Kashmir was ready to join India.It's called terrorism what you did & known for.

 

[.]

Well don't spew media bs.you invaded Kashmir while whole Kashmir was ready to join India.It's called terrorism what you did & known for.

and terrorism by supporting BLA and TTP is not? https://defence.pk/threads/leaked-i...mehsud-ttps-2nd-in-command-speaks-out.419947/
We lost the 1971 war due to our own mistakes we handed victory to you on a plate,I agree hands down.
You lot live in Denial so good luck

 

[TooRave]

and terrorism by supporting BLA and TTP is not? https://defence.pk/threads/leaked-i...mehsud-ttps-2nd-in-command-speaks-out.419947/
We lost the 1971 war due to our own mistakes we handed victory to you on a plate,I agree hands down.
You lot live in Denial so good luck

What denial did I do?You want to start fancy name game?

 

[AKD]

Lol point 5353 and other kargil heights and turtuk Was captured by India during 1971 war by India and Pakistan only got one peak...so how it's a stalemate???

 

[hell9214]

ChecI in,Whenever i see Kashmir in your media ,You still cry about the 1/3rd we got in 1947
Holy shit man,Stop twisting historical facts Just google kashmir and read it in wikipedia.
In all the war's you crossed the international boundary,you opened a front in Punjab in 1965 war to capture lahore (we didn't open a front in Punjab).

See the map you child,you have lost half of Kashmir to china and Pakistan,Every desperate attempt to capture and annihilate Pakistan has turned into defeat for your mighty army ,Half of your indian friends on this website brag about the 1965 war saying "We should've captured lahore if it wasn't for our politics" ,Now the fallacy in that is you guys were in full retreat
Stop living in denial,according to you 47 and 62 was also a victory


You militarized those heights (We didn't!!!!)
You gained nothing substantial.

Lol.I see more kashmir factor in ur media in which u cry.like baby we need kashmir... nd if u have ever hear about hari Singh Thn u have knowledge about what happen in 1947 where u lost kashmir...
About 1965 have u here about operation gibraltor if not ask ur own experts they tell u nd how u get defeat by Indian prime minister...
In 1975 I don't want to tell all knows about it...
Nd .now on 1984 siachen where u lost ur land lol..
In 1999 kargil war how u claim that u won that after failed to capture position lost large amount of soldiers sanctioned on u after war nd still u won that's most laughable thing I ever heard...lol

 

[t_for_talli]

1947 : Kashmir was Independent State, Pakistan Attacked and entered valley, Pakistan captured 1/3rd Kashmir, India controlled 2/3rd, Its easy who won

1965 : Pakistan lost land, more tanks

1971 : No need to say anything (93000 POV) lost half land

1984 : India took Siachin

1999 : Pakistan occupied Kargil, Indian forces took back after military operation

Not sure what has been taught in your school books. Please read Independent sources and not your Government propaganda.

 

[schoolboy]

This is a foolish thread, kept alive by poor analysis as well as some alternative facts (gotta love Trump for that).

Measure of success in a 'war' is not just a question of how many tanks are lost or soldiers killed but whether military and political objectives are accomplished.

1947 was politically a loss for Jinnah. Politically a loss because his pre-emptive action forced Hari Singh to legally accede to India laying the basis for a legal claim to Kashmir. Militarily a part success because Pak troops occupied a third of Kashmir. For Nehru it was a political victory though not a military loss; he himself believed in the existence of a dispute and whatever the merits at the time, he agreed to the UN taking a look - that resulted in the UNSC resolution 47.

1962 was militarily a loss for Nehru. The sudden withdrawal of Chinese forces meant that there was no territory lost. Politically it was not a loss - though the sudden attack did hurt him and no doubt accelerated his death some time thereafter.

1965 was a stalemate though for Ayub it was a military loss since his military objectives were not accomplished. Neither did it help Pakistan politically.

1971 was a military and political loss for Yahya and a similar gain for Indira Gandhi - though as before no territory was annexed or lost (apart from Bangladesh)

Kargil was militarily a loss for Pervez since his objective of possessing the peaks was not successful. Politically it was a disaster and together with the military coup was about the time perception of Pakistan internationally began to change decisively for the worse.

After 1947 Indian military (not political) objectives have never been to occupy the whole of Kashmir. Had that been the case there's no way the Simla Agreement would have permitted Bhutto to retain occupation.

The big difference is that at least in India the 1962 conflict is acknowledged as a loss, there's public discourse about it and no doubt plenty of thinking has been spent into why it went badly. You won't catch anyone from India saying it was a 'victory'.

I don't see anything similar in Pakistan - and if their generals subscribe to the same thinking as these posters on PDF (which seems to be true based on their public statements) then they can't expect different results in future.

 

[G0dfather]

Common little indians , i haven't seen you beak

First leave this ^^^ ostrich mentality , only than you will be able to see Indian beak.

Btw you created this thread to troll Indians or Pakistanis ?

 

[Kaniska]

The results were somewhat like this,I will try my best to be neutral so no bias!
PS:Let's not forget that India has always had a numerical superiority over Pakistan and technologically India wasn't weaker in all the wars either,Some indians resort to the logic of "Technological superiority" to hide their failures.
1965 At the time both India and Pakistan fielded the best main battle tanks from the British and Americans.

• The first war 1947 Pakistan gains 1/3rd of Kashmir.
• Second war 1965,India gains more territory as compared to Pakistan ,Pakistan loses more tanks in the battle-field due to incursion into deep Indian territories and lack of tactical superiority ,Pakistan becomes victorious in the largest tank battle since WW2 effectively driving the invading Indian forces away, Primary objective of Pakistan fails to gain all of Kashmir from India,Primarily objective of India fails to gain Lahore from Pakistan ends up a stalemate.
• India’s 3rd war Sino-Indian War - Wikipedia ,The Chinese were agitated because of the Tibetan uprising when India gave asylum to dalai lama ,other reasons were borderline disputes as from the name it suggests “Aksai chin” was a part of ancient china.
• 4th war Independence of bangladesh,Pakistan faces defeat due to lack of political stability in East Pakistan,The defeat was the fault of our own people that lived under the shadows of dictators, It was a huge militarily predicament of defending a territory separated by 2000 Kilometers of Indian territory,The USSR tried to induce a civil war with the help of Indian intelligence and KGB and it succeeded in doing so because by 1970 USSR and China were having major disputes on various issues and China was moving into the Non-aligned policy with the help of Pakistan acting as a mediator to open ties with Nixon .

Its own record that Sam Mankeshaw ,The CIC of indian army at the time in an interview said that they prepared the invasion months prior to the events leading up.

Sam Manekshaw knew that India had overwhelming superiority.

1. Numerical Superiority
   
2. Geographical(Defending Pakistani forces on Eastern front were surrounded).
   
3. tactical
4. Political(The situation turned into civil war and all sides massacring one another).

• 5th war also known as Kargil war: Kargil - Wikipedia..India had militarized the peaks surrounding the border with Pakistan in 1970s this agitated the Pakistani military to launch a well planed incursion into the heights not until 1999 because political situation wasn’t assisting the military to launch an offensive so they went ahead with it not until 1999 ,Even so the Pakistan air force was literary grounded in 1999 because of sanctions after the atomic tests restricted the air force ,Its the major reason why it didn’t take part in the conflict even though it had a clear Historical supremacy over its adversary..
• The cause of the conflict was the infiltration of Pakistani soldiers and Kashmiri militants into positions on the Indian side of the Line of control . Pakistani troops did not cross the International Borders at any stage of the conflict. Pakistan’s objective was to drive Indians out of Siachin and highlight Kashmir Issue in the eyes of the world.

• In the spring of 1999, on the orders of Pakistan Army Chief, General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani soldiers climbed up the snow-bound passes and occupied some high positions, including Tiger Hill and Point 5353, in the vacant area and infiltrated almost 10 km into the Indian territory ( still short of International Border). These positions overlooked Indian National Highway (NH 1 D). Pakistan was in a strong position to cut off supplies and winter dumping and thus force Indians to withdraw from the Siachin Glacier which they militarized since 1970s.

The Indians were caught off guard. They tried to evict the positions but failed. They used a large number of Artillery guns and also used their air force against Pakistani positions. Two Indian aircraft were also shot down by Stinger Missiles. Indian aircraft violated Pakistani air space but they never admitted it openly. One of their pilots, Flight Lieutenant Nachiketa, who ejected after his aircraft was shot down, was captured from the Pakistani territory. Indians ultimately complained to the International community and finally on pressure by the USA, Pakistani Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, ordered the withdrawal of troops. Most of the casualties of “Operation Koh-e-Paima” were inflicted during the withdrawal. In General Musharraf’s words “A military victory was converted into a political defeat.”

Point 5353 is the highest point in Drass-Kargil area. Its recapture was the most important objective for Indian forces during the Kargil Conflict. But they could never come close to it.

Point 5353 is still occupied by Pakistan, even 14 years after the battle. Pakistan has since fortified it with reinforced bunkers. After the end of the war, Indians tried many times to capture Point 5353 but all their efforts failed.

Ultimately Pakistanis withdrew and India regains possession of Kargil with no Territorial changes,Hence it was another stalemate.

The final point between Pakistan and India stands as .

Wars won by Pakistan : 1 (1947) :Stalemate (2) 1965 and 1999. lost 1 1971

Wars won by India :1 1971( Kargil according to many Indians was a victory but actually it was a stalemate because no territorial changes on either side,With heavy losses on Indian side)..

Wars lost by India 2.. 1947 and Chinese Invasion.

Indian Stalemate: 1 1965(They failed to secure their objectives by opening a second front in Pakistani Punjab and secure their primary objectives)

I hope we Pakistanis now realize that how much political stability matters in wars,had we not have constant coups leading up to 1971 ,Its possible Bangladesh would've kept together instead of stabbing ourselves in the back..
Indhira gandhi Would've automatically had a heart attack.

If you ask me personally, i do not even mind that India to loose wars and become another great economy like US or Japan..At the end of the day both of us know, where does India stands with respect to you...Good luck with your win against India, according to you....

 

[Hamza913]

Your forgot that we captured point 5770 from Pakistanduring Kargil and still hold it.

Actually, you didn't gain anything where as we still hold the highest point (point 5353).

 

[omega supremme]

Point 5353 is still occupied by Pakistan, even 14 years after the battle. Pakistan has since fortified it with reinforced bunkers. After the end of the war, Indians tried many times to capture Point 5353 but all their efforts failed.

Ultimately Pakistanis withdrew and India regains possession of Kargil with no Territorial changes,Hence it was another stalemate.

TWO Questions:

Do we even at the present time are holding the Point 5353 due to your last line there is some confusion ?

Was Point 5353 before Kargil war under Pakistan hold or did we got it after the war ?

 

[AKD]

TWO Questions:

Do we even at the present time are holding the Point 5353 due to your last line there is some confusion ?

Was Point 5353 before Kargil war under Pakistan hold or did we got it after the war ?

Point 5353 with other kargil heights was captured by India in 1971 after which Pakistan captured back pt 5353 in 1999