Why India came back to the negotiating table

[blain2]

Talks will not achieve anything I see no reason except US pressure.

So why succumb to it? Stick to your guns.

 

[rajeev]

The fact is that you have no other choice. The jazbaati talk of complete and total isolation is something that you and your compatriots can ill-afford. As has been suggested here, heinousness of atrocities is relative. After all the two countries talked even though you invaded Pakistan and dismembered our country.

So in the scheme of things, life goes on whether you like it or not. You stand to lose more by not talking.

Yes, that is why Pakistan is training terrorists to filter into India and fight in-disguise.

You are claiming we can ill-afford the complete and total isolation? Can you tell me any benefits of this talk?

History has shown that Pakistan attacks India when it wants to negotiate. Kargil was a good example where your democratically elected PM signed peace deal with India and your army ...oops did i say that right? the Mujahadeen "freedom fighters" occupied Indian vacated outposts!

What is the point in talking with Pakistan? It will never change and I am not sure whether it can ever change!

On the eve of so-called peaceful negotations, JuD is negotiating how and where to attack India and infact your government cannot find proof! Dont you feel when you lie atleast give some time for people so that they could forget the events. These meetings are reported in newspapers and pictures can be taken, yet unfortunately GoP cannot find them nor could it can find any evidence.

Pakistan keep allowing its soil to allow terrorists to take a swipe at India and Congress is talking that negotiations can start! I can understand the great "Aman ki Asha" team whose major members are:
* Mahesh Bhatt - whose son was helping Headley.
* Amitabh Bachan - who is sponsoring Modi for Gujarat's image.

What happened to people arrested by GoP? Does any sane person either in India or in Pakistan believe that they would get prosecuted?

What benefit India can ever achieve with having any relation with Pakistan. I completely agree with vsdoc, karan and gogot that there is no point talking to Pakistan, rather than wasting time and money spending on travel and negotiating, add fences and give that money to defense.

War is eminent and only a real blow can teach Pakistan to change its behavior!

 

[Goodperson]

So why succumb to it? Stick to your guns.

Its not composite dialogue as Pakistan's wish.

 

[blain2]

Still holds true my friend.. Talking to pakistan does diddly squat to compromise India's interests. I am sure at this time it is in India's interest and thats why these talks are happening. Otherwise Pakistan has been asking for these for last 14 months.. Just wait and watch the magic

You are overly optimistic if you think that Indian interests are going to come out unscathed and that too at Pakistan's expense.

Someone suggested a US-EU-Indian master plan that is in the works and will defang Pakistan etc. etc...all I can say is that this is all wishful thinking. Pakistan is not the only country being impacted by all the moves the US is making and India is trying to align with.

The fact of the matter is that there cannot be a peaceful Afghanistan and India if Pakistan is made to pay for safeguarding their interests. This has never worked in the past and it will not work in the future.

 

[karan.1970]

You are overly optimistic if you think that Indian interests are going to come out unscathed and that too at Pakistan's expense.

Someone suggested a US-EU-Indian master plan that is in the works and will defang Pakistan etc. etc...all I can say is that this is all wishful thinking. Pakistan is not the only country being impacted by all the moves the US is making and India is trying to align with.

The fact of the matter is that there cannot be a peaceful Afghanistan and India if Pakistan is made to pay for safeguarding their interests. This has never worked in the past and it will not work in the future.

Didnt imply that India's interests will be served at Pakistan's cost. No matter what a lot of people believe, it is not always a zero sum game. Without any inside information, my view on this is that India is doing this on US's insistance and will get some concessions from US in a quid pro quo. It may be some thing in Afghanistan, which in my view may have a feel good factor for a lot of folks but does little for long term objectives. Alternately, it may be something really substantial on the lines of trade concessions or acceptance as a Nuclear weapons state in NPT.

But we wont know till it becomes public so as I said, lets wait and watch the magic..

 

[TechLahore]

War is eminent and only a real blow can teach Pakistan to change its behavior!

Interesting. Assuming that you are referring to a real war and not just the exchange of pleasantries across the LoC, by when do you think this "eminent[sic] war" will occur? If it truly is imminent, I suppose you are talking a year or less? Well, this forum has been around for a long time, so what say we mark up our calendars and come back here in a year, then two years and see if your prediction came to pass.

I'll put my 2 cents in also. I think you are dead wrong. Pakistan is immune to Indian military moves and this has been proven time and time again... 2002, Mumbai etc. etc. India understands that it cannot attack Pakistan without bringing about the destruction of the entire sub continent. So, assuming Purohit or his ilk don't come to power in Delhi, this will prevent a logical Indian regime from going to war with Pakistan.

Again. Let's just come back to this thread in a year and see. We have plenty of time.

 

[XYON]

Still holds true my friend.. Talking to pakistan does diddly squat to compromise India's interests. I am sure at this time it is in India's interest and thats why these talks are happening. Otherwise Pakistan has been asking for these for last 14 months.. Just wait and watch the magic

Thanks but we seen you taking tiny things out of your diplomatic pants before in the garb for talks! So nothing is new for us really! YAAAWWWNN!!!

 

[blain2]

Yes, that is why Pakistan is training terrorists to filter into India and fight in-disguise.

Prove it! We are fighting militants that get succor from your side. Its a two-ways street.

You are claiming we can ill-afford the complete and total isolation? Can you tell me any benefits of this talk?

There may be none. I am just saying you have no choice but to talk. You have tried isolation, but the world is not India only. We have not talked for 14 months, its for your democracy to decide if they want another 14 months of the same. Pakistan is no hurry out of the ordinary.

History has shown that Pakistan attacks India when it wants to negotiate. Kargil was a good example where your democratically elected PM signed peace deal with India and your army ...oops did i say that right? the Mujahadeen "freedom fighters" occupied Indian vacated outposts!

The problem for you folks is that you have a very selective memory. Pakistan-India history does not start with Kargil. You may want to go back further and see who started the mess in East Pakistan. For those of us who have been around, nothing that Pakistan has done post-71 comes even close to the mess you created in 1971. So lets not try to play this Mr. nice guy thing. It may work with gorays and the likes, but not with us.

What is the point in talking with Pakistan? It will never change and I am not sure whether it can ever change!

You folks should debate this within your country. Who is putting a gun to your head this time around to do this? Its certainly not us Pakistanis. Why don't you guys ask your Uncle (the Americans) about this push?

On the eve of so-called peaceful negotations, JuD is negotiating how and where to attack India and infact your government cannot find proof! Dont you feel when you lie atleast give some time for people so that they could forget the events. These meetings are reported in newspapers and pictures can be taken, yet unfortunately GoP cannot find them nor could it can find any evidence.

So what do we do, find people at a JUD rally and arrest them? For what? For making speeches and chanting slogans? You need a bit more than that to get them into a courtroom and prosecute. Personally I am absolutely against people of Pakistani origin going into India to cause carnage. However do not expect us to herd people at rallies and the speakers and attendees and shove them in jails without proper evidence.

Pakistan keep allowing its soil to allow terrorists to take a swipe at India and Congress is talking that negotiations can start! I can understand the great "Aman ki Asha" team whose major members are:
* Mahesh Bhatt - whose son was helping Headley.
* Amitabh Bachan - who is sponsoring Modi for Gujarat's image.

What happened to people arrested by GoP? Does any sane person either in India or in Pakistan believe that they would get prosecuted?

Pakistan is prosecuting those against whom evidence has been provided. The bottom line is that Pakistan has exactly "zero" interest in sponsoring an attack against Indian citizens and leading the two countries to war. This should be well understood. Militancy in the entire region is getting fed by an active war in Afghanistan which generates ample opportunities for people to get training, arms and also the motivation to strike. They have struck Pakistan, they have struck Afghanistan and India. Now if you do not want to talk to Pakistan then it should be a national decision in India.

What benefit India can ever achieve with having any relation with Pakistan. I completely agree with vsdoc, karan and gogot that there is no point talking to Pakistan, rather than wasting time and money spending on travel and negotiating, add fences and give that money to defense.

War is eminent and only a real blow can teach Pakistan to change its behavior!

Do it. Instead of talking, do what your country must. Why come here and complain about something that is inherently wrong with your own policy making. If your countrymen feel that by prosecuting a war they can achieve their goals, then do so by all means but with a caveat that teaching Pakistan a lesson is not as easy as you think.
Call Pakistan's bluff next time.

 

[XYON]

Its not composite dialogue as Pakistan's wish.

Right! Its more like smelly COMPOSITE BS from Mr. Chudambaram and frankly we'll get back to you once we could find some dates for this diplomatic-manure from Indian side!!

 

[rajeev]

Interesting. Assuming that you are referring to a real war and not just the exchange of pleasantries across the LoC, by when do you think this "eminent[sic] war" will occur? If it truly is imminent, I suppose you are talking a year or less? Well, this forum has been around for a long time, so what say we mark up our calendars and come back here in a year, then two years and see if your prediction came to pass.

I'll put my 2 cents in also. I think you are dead wrong. Pakistan is immune to Indian military moves and this has been proven time and time again... 2002, Mumbai etc. etc. India understands that it cannot attack Pakistan without bringing about the destruction of the entire sub continent. So, assuming Purohit or his ilk don't come to power in Delhi, this will prevent a logical Indian regime from going to war with Pakistan.

Again. Let's just come back to this thread in a year and see. We have plenty of time.

Are you asking when the war will occur? History gives the answer. Take a look at it:

Kashmir war: Pakistan regular and irregular forces attacked Kashmir. Kashmir's King acceded to India and hence the war started

1965 war: Macho army attacked India first (Operation Gibraltar) and hence the war started.

1971 war: Pakistan AF attacked Indian airports on Bangladeshi side using the doctrine of offensive-defense and then the war started.

Kargil war: Pakistan army occupied vacated Indian outposts at Kargil and hence the war started.

So, if history had been any guide, it shows that Macho army decides when, where and what time, the war would start.

My feeling is that may be whenever Zardari and Gilani gets toppled. It can happen anytime when your military chief decides! Even an order to oust the military chief would suffice for the military to provide the distraction and blame it on India (like their famous blame of TTP on India ... haha)

My contention is that whenever Pakistan decides to go to war, the war settlement should happen after a nice punch by Indian army.

 

[haawk]

The fact is that you have no other choice. The jazbaati talk of complete and total isolation is something that you and your compatriots can ill-afford. As has been suggested here, heinousness of atrocities is relative. After all the two countries talked even though you invaded Pakistan and dismembered our country.

total isolation of india?

.

besides ....it was pakistan that was crying for talks for a very long time ....and just because india called for talks does not mean that we are desperate for talks......its pakistan that has been desperate for talks ...coz once india agrees for talks the pressure on pakistan by the west to do more(with regards to terror support against india) would come down...

 

[blain2]

Its not composite dialogue as Pakistan's wish.

Great! Just what you wanted.

 

[Imran Khan]

Are you asking when the war will occur? History gives the answer. Take a look at it:

Kashmir war: Pakistan regular and irregular forces attacked Kashmir. Kashmir's King acceded to India and hence the war started

1965 war: Macho army attacked India first (Operation Gibraltar) and hence the war started.

1971 war: Pakistan AF attacked Indian airports on Bangladeshi side using the doctrine of offensive-defense and then the war started.

Kargil war: Pakistan army occupied vacated Indian outposts at Kargil and hence the war started.

So, if history had been any guide, it shows that Macho army decides when, where and what time, the war would start.

My feeling is that may be whenever Zardari and Gilani gets toppled. It can happen anytime when your military chief decides! Even an order to oust the military chief would suffice for the military to provide the distraction and blame it on India (like their famous blame of TTP on India ... haha)

My contention is that whenever Pakistan decides to go to war, the war settlement should happen after a nice punch by Indian army.

use right names mr.macho

i can write hinfu army skinny army slum army black army for yours damn.but i am not that lavel were you are sooo deep.

 

[karan.1970]

Thanks but we seen you taking tiny things out of your diplomatic pants before in the garb for talks! So nothing is new for us really! YAAAWWWNN!!!

My last response to you sir as your responses are becoming kiddish. If what you say is true then why was Pakistan was asking for these talks in every forum since last 14 months. In my view, exactly for this reason to try and prevent India from choosing an opportune time to extract maximym diplomatic leverage out of it..

 

[blain2]

So, if history had been any guide, it shows that Macho army decides when, where and what time, the war would start.

My feeling is that may be whenever Zardari and Gilani gets toppled. It can happen anytime when your military chief decides! Even an order to oust the military chief would suffice for the military to provide the distraction and blame it on India (like their famous blame of TTP on India ... haha)

My contention is that whenever Pakistan decides to go to war, the war settlement should happen after a nice punch by Indian army.

Enough talk. Do it already.