Why i would Pick Gripen NG for MMRCA

[MST]

An old post by me in MRCA thread on the topic...reposting it

OK here is the Gripen argument.. worth a look.​

This is such a biased article. I am pretty sure Saab paid him for writing this. There is not even a hint of neutrality. He is conveniently ignored all the positives of other aircraft and highlighted positives of only Gripen.

Most of the points he made for Gripen is BS can easily be countered. Here is my take. I simply couldn't resist

6(A)
He says Gripen and Tejas (after maturing) will be similar aircraft and complement each other. May be he should check the definition of Complement.

I am giving a definition of Complement which should be without confusion. Source

In set theory, a complement of a set A refers to things not in (that is, things outside of), A. The relative complement of A with respect to a set B, is the set of elements in B but not in A. ...


Now how the hell Tejas and Gripen complement each other when they are similar

6(D)

He says there is no political constraints Attached. And he conveniently forgets the American engine Also no talk of the fact that there is not political gain from Gripen either.

6(G)

So both Tejas and Grippen having same engine will give less leverage to the US compared to only Tejas only using the US engine.
Wow this time he has turned the whole financial logic on its head. Don't more engines simply means more control to the US since we will have much more dependency (instead of 120 Tejas we will have 246 aircrafts at the mercy of US engines)


6(H)
Thrust Vectoring for Tejas due to Gripen selection
And I thought thrust vectoring is an Engine property. Poor me.

6(I)
Common Gripen is not EF that the Europeans will pass all the high end technology to Pakistan that we need to keep them out. BTW this logic is valid for all aircraft including MIG 35.

6(J) This point is BS as long as IAF doesn't say so.

At the end of the day Gripen NG is still a Paper plane just like Tejas MK-2 . Only difference is that Gripen NG will come in 2014 while Tejas MK-2 will come in 2016. Now that's just not good enough. Its better to buy 300 much cheaper MK-2. Cost wise and from maintainance perspective that will work out much better.

 

[sathya]

i too agree .. LCA MK2 will be reach the gripen ng level..
right now engine is at same level = f 414

 

[MAFIAN GOD]

By 2016 we will compete our Tejas MK-2 against Gripen-NG in "MMRCA" like competition of some poor countries who can not afford high cost planes.
In my opinion buying Gripen will affect the sale our Tejas in future.

So say NO to Gripen.

 

[Storm Force]

If Tejas mk2 REACHES Gripen NG Before 2020 I WILL EAT MY HAT.

Joking apart guys.

India needs a relative cost effective MMRCA fighter now or by 2012at the latest.

Bearing in mind PLAAF are inducting equalivent fighters at $30m each in J10 or FC20 and PAF F16/52 on possible grant aid or half cost ie $25m each i think the indians will kill all 3 services by trying to induct $80m dollar MMRCA..

As i said (did anybody take note) IAF or India cannot afford both MMRCA TYPHOONS and FGFA between 2012 and 2025 at over $30 bllion.

China sends 4 times the INDIAN MILITARY YET EVEN THEY ARE GOING with cheaper J10 AND SO IS PAF with $15m Thunder

The TEJAS has failed to arrive in time 2018 for mk2 is 8 years away.

TyphoonOR F18 alongside nerarly 300 su30mki is a unbalanced very expensive air force that will cripple India,s FGFA particpation, even effect other projects like arihant and 3rd carrier plans.

One gripen costs half the cost of a Typhoon and will do 2 sorties in the time a flankers does one. More importantly it will cost 30% of the maintenance work.

 

[Storm Force]

Before any body makes statements like Tejas mk1 or 2 is a Gripen ng match or near match plz see the y tube clip

This Vedio explains India & Gripen NG philsophy

 

[Storm Force]

Gripen NG demo Vedio To Indian Air force.

Key points

Gripen is the only one of 6 contenders to offer 126 fighters with weapons IN BUDGET/

All others are over budget

[video=metacafe;5556229/gripen_for_india/]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5556229/gripen_for_india/[/video]

 

[MST]

No doubt Gripen is a cheap option (second or third Cheapest in MMRCA after MIG 35 and possibly F-16IN) and is low on maintenance.

But all this will remain theoretical as long as the plane is on paper. There are huge risk because of this. E.g. Saab signed for development of AESA radar only in 2009. Now no one knows how this will work out and when the production ready mature radar will be available. I read in wikipedia that Gripen NG will go in service with Swedish Airforce in 2017. I am quoting this below.

"In June 2010, Saab stated that Sweden plans to order the Gripen NG under the JAS 39E/F designation. The new variant is to enter Swedish service in 2017 or possibly earlier if export orders are received"

The citation is from Aviation week which requires subscription which i don't have . Maybe someone with a subscription can confirm this.

If this is the case then its just too late for MMRCA.

 

[Kinetic]

Its not just because of paper plane but what Gripen gives over other fighters is a big question.

 

[Indian-Devil]

An old post by me in MRCA thread on the topic...reposting it

OK here is the Gripen argument.. worth a look.​

Hi Benny,
There are some imp. points which already raised by MST. Along with them, you are mentioning Eurofighter, Rafael both have some US parts and they may cause issues if US gets upset. But same thing goes with Grippen also which has more US parts in it including engine.
If US gets upset then we will be having around 270-280 fighters which uses American engine(a very crucial part).
There is one thing for sure, if IAF & GOI want MRCA aircraft winner to be one which doesnot have any US part then its only Mig-35 which is out of question. They have to go with someone which uses American parts also.

Secondly MoD & IAF should be going to deploy these fighters in Eastern sector most probably, where they will be frontliner aircraft to counter Chineese air force latest fighters, like J-10. J-11 etc. So IAF should be going for latest and state of the aircraft which is better than other contenders.

Along with it, MoD will be more concerned on ToT for this tendor, so that ToT of some crucial technologies can help DRDO in AMCA and other future aircrafts. Thru Grippen they will not be getting any crucial technology benefit in ToT (Engine, Radar etc). The armament which we will be getting thru Grippen, most of them are available thru Eurofighter also. Although Rafael doesnot have all those US armaments but they have their own armaments like Mica etc.

Moreover It will be a political advantage also with this contest, and i think Grippen is on the last level in terms of political advantage, if its selected.

There are few advantages with Grippen like less cost, low cost maintenance (if its really true what is mentioned by them like flying cost per hr etc).

 

[Storm Force]

This plotical advantage is just hot air.

Simply buying F18 OR F16 does not been gurantee USA support in war with China or PAKISTAN.

AMERICAN INTERESTS COME FIRST

 

[misterme2]

GOOD analysis Storm! My analysis as to why I would pick GRipen if India can't get the Typhoon (Rafael to me is outdated in terms of design and overpriced) is because the US wanted it out of the running. Sure it used some tech from America but it must've been a serious contender if it made America block certain tech transfers. We can co-develop with the Swedes and for folks who say this will a competitor to the Tejas.... well tejas needs help even a complete redesign in the future. If we want to strengthen our industry we need an effective 50-50 partner, one who help develop our industry as much as theirs. Other countries don;t really disseminate that knowledge or tech. They merely give it to us to copy, but we can insist the Swedes to do more. We actually have some leverage, and we might as well use if effectively. The US is good but I want them to include India as a co-deeloper but I am not sure if that will ever happen now.

 

[misterme2]

Cant manipulate the Swedes to help redesign a powerful indigenous Engine Solution?

 

[conworldus]

Cant manipulate the Swedes to help redesign a powerful indigenous Engine Solution?

The Swedes themselves have no idea how to make an engine, so how can they help anyone else? The Gripen uses GE engine. Volvo's involvement in the original engine development is actually quite limited, and the newer Gripen will move to purely GE engine.

 

[MST]

This plotical advantage is just hot air.

That's not true as far as the Euro Fighter consortium Countries are concerned looking at the way they are lobbying and offering stuff. Irrespective of costs if Indian MOD and GOI uses their brains they should be able to squeeze out every technology right to the nut and bolts of the Euro Fighter from the Europeans. That will be a serious boost for AMCA.

Simply buying F18 OR F16 does not been gurantee USA support in war with China or PAKISTAN.

AMERICAN INTERESTS COME FIRST

Ideally we shouldn't be looking for American support rather looking at getting technology that will help us build our own AMCA. But considering this Government its very likely that American stuff is coming.

 

[AIRFORCE BRAT]

gripen all the way . cheap ,beautiful and do what ever you her to do. no fancy ,no drama